Trump is wrong to criticize Amazon

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: Grambler

I have never paid a cent of sales tax on anything we have gotten from Amazon or most online sales places. Only if they are within Michigan and by agreement, some adjoining states do we pay sales taxes. That info you posted is not correct, it is somehow twisted to make people believe something that is not true. It actually sounds like a WaPo tactic.

Perhaps you should contact some media outlets.

I know in PA i pay them, I know people in ohio do as well.

Wikipedia says amazon pays them in michagan

Michigan

On October 1, 2015, Amazon started collecting sales tax in Michigan in accordance with a state law compelling online retailers to do so if they have a physical presence in the state.[65]

en.wikipedia.org...

Michigan's on .gov website says that amazon pays state taxes.

www.michigan.gov...

All of these articles say so as well.

www.mlive.com...

www.nolo.com...

www.wndu.com...

www.lexology.com...

www.southbendtribune.com... .html

www.michigancapitolconfidential.com...

www.washingtontimes.com...

ilsr.org...

If you are correct and this is a lie, then I feel you need to immediatly gather proof, as this is a conspiracy that has not only infilitrated consrevative people like Ben shapiros show, but alos national, local media, as well as Michagans on government website.

Not only that, but seeing as how this bill was passed in 2015 with mixed reviews, not one person that I can find has came forward to discuss this lie that has been propagated in all of these venues.

I would think this means either 1. you are mistaken, 2. a mistake was made with your order, which legally you should report and pay the sales taxes before your state tax collector comes after you, or 3. you need to contact as many media places as you can and show proof, expecially on places like ATS that will show this is one of the biggest media cover up of all time.

WE usually only buy specific hard to find foods and vitamins from Amazon, we buy most stuff locally except things we can't get. I talked to my daughter and she said Amazon does charge sales tax now, since a year ago last October. But if you buy from a feed through, directly from the seller, than there still may be no tax. I seem to find the best prices on their associated business sites. I do not know if the money goes to the associate or to Amazon, the wife orders it, there has been no tax we have paid so far. And I did find an article about this. www.taxjar.com...-you-have-sales-tax-nexus-in-michigan.

So, I was wrong, Amazon does charge sales tax here on the stuff that goes directly through them. But we do not pay salestax on food items.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Grambler

Are you kidding me?

Amazon is an absolute JUGGERNAUT that gets such preferential treatment from government its as if its getting paid subsidies.

Their cozy relationship with USPS in particular, its not just poised to absolutely crush what remains of brick & mortar following Walmart, but to do the same thing to online retailers especially all the little people (regular folks trying to get their own little online business thing going).

What Amazon is hellbent on doing to ALL other retailers.... Walmart eat your heart out.

Its even beyond the equivalence of comparing 'all other countries' to China in terms of output dominance sort of thing. China eat you heart out, but luckily for you every single item you'll ever offer will be availble at the absolutel lowest rate in Amazon Prime. Hell even the little vendors in AliExpress face the same kind of de facto extinction on this trajectory.

And then the part its building up towards its own 'Skynet' sort of aspirations on the back of all that...

Seriously dude! I don't get it. I even admitted my addiction due to my status, but yet those who seem to promote how much they hate Capitalism are the ones supporting how Amazon is getting over other businesses....

I don't get it.......

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: notsure1

You are the only reason that your not rich. You.

What is rich? I own my house my bills are paid, fridge is full and I can play around on ATS all day because I am the boss.

I am not a pos greedy jack ass making 107 million a day and only pay his employees 15$ an hour if they are lucky..

How does that not piss everyone off?

a reply to: notsure1

How many jobs has amazon given though?

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Grambler



1. Amazon pays almost nothing to the FED for Taxes.

Thanks to trumps tax cut.

Jeff Bezos’ sprawling e-commerce giant Amazon reportedly raked in more than $5.6 billion in U.S. profits in 2017, but despite that, the company essentially paid $0 in federal income taxes.

That’s largely attributable to “excess stock-based compensation deductions” and the effect of the 2017 Tax Act, according to the company’s U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filing earlier this month. In other words, Amazon was able to leverage the tax credits and breaks to zero out taxes it owed this year, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economy Policy (ITEP), a non-partisan think tank.

The tax plan, which was signed into law by President Trump in late December, slashed the corporate tax rate to 21% from 35%, but it also instituted a mandatory one-time tax on accumulated earnings of foreign subsidiaries.

www.foxbusiness.com...

So is trump arguing against his own tax cut?

Or, as I assume, he hates Bezos, so he is lashing out at amazon.

2. Amazon gets tax breaks and currently there are many states and major cities courting them for the 2nd HQ. Local business does not get this. 10's of Billions are being offered

As someone showed, this isnt true. Many local businesses get tax breaks.

And what does this have to do with Trump or the federal government? SO should trump, who pushed for tax breaks, now demand state and local places no longer offer tax breaks just to amazon?

I am for federalism and state piower, I dont want the federal goverment telling states what they have to do with their taxes.

3. The Postal service is bleeding but without Amazon they would be dead. It is not helping them just keeping them afloat. Remember there are 2 dies to the PO. Infrastructure and Delivery(Marketing). Amazon has taken away the need for more infrastructure.

Ok so that is the post offices fault. Again, if anything, amazon is helping the postal service.

Your argument would be akin to saying we should punish auto companies, because if it wasnt for them making more fuel efficient cars, we would have made renewables. Its more government intervention, and bad.

4. Amazon is now what Wal-Mart was 15-20 years ago but doing it online and not brick and mortar. Amazon IS killing small to mid size businesses. Where is Montgomery Wards? Small town electronic or computer stores? KMart? Now Toys R Us? All dinosaurs of the brick and mortar age replaced with Amazon Prime.

It is moving away from a 'free market' to a monopoly...which would not be free market in a sense, right?

Its not a monopoly.

This argument could be used for many businesses.

well we have to punish uber and lyft, they are hurtuing taxis.

We have to punish Netflix and hulu, they are hurting cable companies.

We have to punish food delvery services, they are hurting resteraunts.

And on and on.

Amazon offering more competitive services is not a reason to punish them.

If and when they become a monopoly, then they can be broken up; that still doesnt justify arbitrarily charging them more in taxes, or other things being suggested.

Again, I find it funny the same people saying this about amazon would be aghainst forcing wal mart or McDonalds to pay a $15 minimum wage, or many other anti free market stances.

Just remember, when people that claim to be right wing cry for market intervention, left wing people like Bernie will be more than happy to agree with you and use your exact same argument to have government gain more and more regulation over the free market.

originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: notsure1
Toys R us a staple store in America for years has to close, all those jobs lost as a direct result of Amazon..

And blockbuster died because of streaming services, should we punish Netflix as well?

Blockbuster was always going to die it was only around for a decade or so.

And ToysRUs could have cornered the online toy selling market while Amazon was still a bookstore.

They # the bed by not having the foresight to see the power and potential of the internet.

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: Grambler

All I know is screw Amazon... If youu can make 107 million a god damm day you can pay your employees a living wage...

Why is his greed ok?

Thats fine, thats your opinion.

That is an anti free market ideal, and you are certainly allowed to have that.

If trump wants to argue against the free market, he needs to stop his tax cuts, push for more socialization, and become more like Bernie.

I see you say in a later post you own a house, etc.

I know many people that will call you a greedy pig for all of your excesses beyond that.

You interpretation of greed is relaticve; your money is ok, someone making more than you is not.

Bezos is not forcing people to work for him; they do it willingly.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: notsure1
Blockbuster was always going to die it was only around for a decade or so.

No, it wasn't. They had a chance to do what Netflix originally did with mailing movies to customers but they missed the boat.

Bad business decisions strikes again.

Mailing movies didnt kill blockbuster.. Streaming them did.. how many movies odes netflix mail out now.?

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: rickymouse
I agree with Trump. We are loosing jobs here because of Amazon and other online companies. We used to have way more job openings around here before the big box stores and internet sales started putting businesses out of business.

If we had plenty of manufacturing jobs for people to work at, it would be fine, but we don't, too much imports.

First they changed the base of our economy from manufacturing to consumer base, they the consumer base economy is being disrupted from way too much buying on the net, this path is not even sensible, sooner or later no money will be left to buy anything with.

It isn't just Amazon, look at all the huge online stores around.

Sorry I dont buy that.

This would be like saying we should have punished ford for developing the factory assembly line, or Mahindra or John Deere for taking away agricultural jobs.

That is how the free market works. Amazon found ways to provide a product to people cheaper and more conveniently, and did so within the confines of the law.

They should not be blamed or punished for that.

Once we open that box, we now allow Presidents or government to pick winners or losers based merely on their personal prefernce.

Well, maybe our free market should be regulated to protect the economy of this country. It has been regulated all along and our economy was stable, now our economy is about as real as the stock market, it can crumble too easy.

That is a fair argument.

If you are against free markets, and more state controlled solutuons, that is fine.

I disagreew with you however.

Might I suggest voting for people that share your concern, such as Bernie sanders or other far leftr leaning politicians that feel that the government must interefere with the market to favor certain companies.

I see so many things wrong with a local city letting any store into the community, they just put an established business out of business then fold again when another store comes in and competes with them. Those stores can't pay a decent wage for their workers when they are cutting each others throats. It takes money to run a business, what is adjustable is the wage of employees and the hours they work. So I have seen a reduction in livable wage here in our areas trending over the years. You could pump gas in a gas station making a buck sixty and hour and afford an apartment and even go out and hit the bars on the weekend. I feel sorry for the young. Now these internet sales will make it even worse, their overhead is low and they can cause wages to stay low locally because of less volume sold.

Our Economy used to be regulated, way less people were on assistance, making a livable wage. We got problems in this country, creating a monopoly was not legal before, they used to break them up.

Not going to comment much, but I noticed you didn't have a rebuttal for Burdman.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: Grambler

All I know is screw Amazon... If youu can make 107 million a god damm day you can pay your employees a living wage...

Why is his greed ok?

Thats fine, thats your opinion.

That is an anti free market ideal, and you are certainly allowed to have that.

If trump wants to argue against the free market, he needs to stop his tax cuts, push for more socialization, and become more like Bernie.

I see you say in a later post you own a house, etc.

I know many people that will call you a greedy pig for all of your excesses beyond that.

You interpretation of greed is relaticve; your money is ok, someone making more than you is not.

Bezos is not forcing people to work for him; they do it willingly.

What? nobody works willingly, We do it because we have too to eat. He is forcing people to work for him by costing everyone their job do you not see that?

Then uou can make 14$ an hour working for him or or the waltons or Trump or whoever..

They are forcing us..

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Nope, not buying it.

The same things being said about amazon were said about walmart.

Wal mart was crushing everything, and was going to have skynet type control over the world.

Now people are saying they are being unfairly bullied by Amazon.

This fall required absolutely ZERO government punsishment or breaking up.

The same will be true of amazon. Other companies will innovate and beat them in small areas at fisrt, and in ways we havent even thought of.

Then people will decry those companies and lament poor amazon and how all the people that work for them are losing jobs.

As far as the USPS, its a mutually beneficial deal.

n independent agency, the Postal Regulatory Commission, oversees and reviews the rates the US Postal Service sets for both the monopoly and competitive sides, basically reviewing and giving the okay for any changes — including a one cent stamp increase.

But USPS, Kosar explains, also cuts individual deals with companies that mail or ship in bulk — what are called “workshare discounts.”

“The prices that the company pays is going to be haggled and based on how much [the companies] prepare whatever is being shipped before handing it over to the Postal Service,” Kosar said.

That preparation includes making sure goods are packaged in the right size boxes, or parcels are outfitted with a bar code that works with the post office — basically anything that makes the USPS’s job easier and cuts down on some logistical and processing costs.

And a massive company like Amazon, with the infrastructure and resources to do what the Postal Service needs, will probably get a more favorable deal. “Obviously bigger companies are better at doing this, that’s how they eke out nice little margins, but driving those costs down,” Kosar said.

So in some ways, there’s a mutual benefit. Amazon gets a good deal from USPS, which ships millions (but not all) of its packages, and, in return, the postal system gets help streamlining its operations.

www.vox.com...

But dont worry! Soon amazon will have its own delevery service.

The the USPS will beg to have them back, as their parcel delivery services collapse.

a reply to: eNumbra

Hell, in my industry it's actually the little guys that are hurting the big guys now thanks to the market changing. Should the little guys now be punished because their business model is now more effective?

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: eNumbra

Hell, in my industry it's actually the little guys that are hurting the big guys now thanks to the market changing. Should the little guys now be punished because their business model is now more effective?

Yes, you’re taking caviar right out of the mouths of those poor CEOs.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Grambler

Amazon doesn't collect in-state sales taxes from 3rd party vendors so yes, they are working a loophole to avoid paying the taxes AND working that loophole puts them at an unequal advantage over local brick and mortar retailers. As for their USPS honeydeal, Amazon works the system. It isn't illegal, but it also isn't good for the overall economy of the system... www.freightwaves.com... the USPS is effectively subsidizing $1.50 of every package Amazon ships with them.

I can't disagree with Trump here. I also wouldn't shed any tears to see Bezos crescent kicked in the back of the head by a man wearing steel boots, but that's a position based on purely my personal feelings about the guy.

Your first point.

This is not a federal government issue; its a state one.

Why should the feds tell states who they are allowed to give state tax breaks too? And lets not forget, other businesses get all sorts of state and local tax breaks; so I assume trump is against all of them.

As to USPS, I posted an article that shows that USPS gives this discount for two reasons; one, because they ship in bulk.

Just like if i buy in bulk I pay a cheaper price per item, its the same idea.

In addition, Amazon makes the deliveries easier for many ways, such as having the exact size packaging for all of their products, and other things.

If it wasnt for amazon, the USPS would be in a very difficult position.

Trump, like you doesnt like Bezos.

I dont want my president interfeing in the free market based on his personal fueds.

originally posted by: notsure1
Mailing movies didnt kill blockbuster.. Streaming them did.. how many movies odes netflix mail out now.?

The point is that's how they started. Blockbuster could have gone from walk-in to mailing to streaming just as easily but they missed the boat.

a reply to: rickymouse

You are only looking at one side of the issue.

Yes these stores take out others, and yes they sell cheap products. So as bad as that is for the laborer, its good for the consumer.

Look I lean libertaraian. I want as little government interfence as possible.

If you think the government will do a good, fair job of picking winners and loser in business, thats your right.

I think that history has shown over and over again that they almost always fail.

How much money do you effing need? If Bezos or any of these rich greedy bastards would just every now and then say .

"you know I made a billion this month I think next months billion will go to my employees because they are the real reason I am so successful on such a massive scale.."

Then people would love them.

But nope they only want to invest in other businesses to make themselves richer..

How much money do these greedy bastards need?

originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Grambler

Are you kidding me?

Amazon is an absolute JUGGERNAUT that gets such preferential treatment from government its as if its getting paid subsidies.

Their cozy relationship with USPS in particular, its not just poised to absolutely crush what remains of brick & mortar following Walmart, but to do the same thing to online retailers especially all the little people (regular folks trying to get their own little online business thing going).

What Amazon is hellbent on doing to ALL other retailers.... Walmart eat your heart out.

Its even beyond the equivalence of comparing 'all other countries' to China in terms of output dominance sort of thing. China eat you heart out, but luckily for you every single item you'll ever offer will be availble at the absolutel lowest rate in Amazon Prime. Hell even the little vendors in AliExpress face the same kind of de facto extinction on this trajectory.

And then the part its building up towards its own 'Skynet' sort of aspirations on the back of all that...

Seriously dude! I don't get it. I even admitted my addiction due to my status, but yet those who seem to promote how much they hate Capitalism are the ones supporting how Amazon is getting over other businesses....

I don't get it.......

You know what you're right. They should bring back Standard Oil, Carnegie Steel Company, Vanderbilt Railroad and the Bell System.

The Big 6 Media, well ther'es more than one of them so nope no "monopoly' there. F it let there be only 2 media companies that absolutely dominate all tv channels / shows, news outlets, newspapers, book/magazine publishing AND radio stations.

There are only "Two" Party's after all. Lets model the whole world on that woohoo!

And the banks, same thing as above.

How dare anyone hate "Capitalism" (ahem Robberbarronism).

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: notsure1
Mailing movies didnt kill blockbuster.. Streaming them did.. how many movies odes netflix mail out now.?

The point is that's how they started. Blockbuster could have gone from walk-in to mailing to streaming just as easily but they missed the boat.

My point is another brick and mortar store gone... Where are the Netflix Brick and mortar stores?