Trump is wrong to criticize Amazon

Amazon doesn't charge 3rd party sales tax. Neither does EBay, ETSY or any marketplace, brick and mortar or virtual, that offers venders their own shops. That's up to the shop owners.

Also, Amazon is HELPING mom and pop stores by offering them a marketplace in which to cheaply offer their goods, at least cheaper than most malls.

a reply to: Nyiah

And when it says SONY on the inner box (but the outer box has Prime tape on it)?


So lets be clear, you cant provide an example of a mail order supplier selling within Amazon having a lower price than Amazon on a product? You do it all the time. Should be a snap.

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a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss


But Amazon doesn't own everything they ship! They offer warehouse storage and shipping to businesses.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: Nyiah

And when it says SONY on the inner box (but the outer box has Prime tape on it)?


So lets be clear, you cant provide an example of a mail order supplier selling within Amazon having a lower price than Amazon on a product? You do it all the time. Should be a snap.

I just did in my prior post. You, on the other hand, give an example of Sony, but decline to say whether or not that was merch owned & sold by Amazon itself, or by Jim's Electronics selling as a vendor through Amazon having their orders fulfilled by Amazon.

I don't think you understand the mechanics of Amazon as a market half as well as you think.

Let's simplify this. Assume Westfield opens Westfield Department Store within their malls, and includes products sold exclusively by other tenant storefronts as well. Forever 21 products, Claire's products, Old Navy products, etc. Forget the real-world logic of it, just run with it a minute.

If I purchase from an Old Navy in a Westfield-owned mall establishment, am I purchasing from Westfield itself? No, not unless I purchase the product in question directly from their (Westfield's) storefront. In this case, the Old Navy storefront is still an independent vendor regardless of whether or not Westfield supplies bags to put the purchases in.

Westfield, like Amazon, is simply giving them a space to sell from. It's the same idea with Amazon, except it's warehouses rather than mall storefronts, and they supply shipping material as well.

a reply to: Grambler

i don't shop amazon and don't like walmart and here is why we used to have thriving stores in my town but with the arrival of walmart the other department stores went out of business or turned into glorified family dollar stores thru their illegal practices like using early copies of our flyers to buy out all our inventory of sale items a day before sale starts then resaling them cheaper than our store. we had 15 grocery stores when walmart opened up as a super center 8 groceries shut down including the 6 in the side of town where the vast majority of the poor and elderly lived that meant upwards of 20 thousand people most of whom walked to grocery now had to walk upwards of 3 miles or more to get groceries. and the local mall is like a ghost town with 2 restaurants a handfull of stores and a belks left out of the orginal 50 to 60 store fronts because amazon and online better?

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: rickymouse
If we had plenty of manufacturing jobs for people to work at, it would be fine, but we don't, too much imports.

First they changed the base of our economy from manufacturing to consumer base, they the consumer base economy is being disrupted from way too much buying on the net, this path is not even sensible, sooner or later no money will be left to buy anything with.

Horse poo. I bet there's at least 3 factory job openings for every unemployed person out there. Just in my small town of about 15k people we have 6 factories. They're all always hiring.

Where do you live, somewhere in China? There are not nearly as many manufacturing jobs left here in Michigan and the Amount in Wisconsin has dropped quite a bit. There are still small companies with less pay and benefits, but there used to be lots of good paying companies out there with great benefits years back. Maybe your young, maybe you can't see the whole picture. The jobs of people in Detroit actually helped us here, the states had more money to fix the roads because those people paid taxes. The unemployment figures now are a coverup. I remember how it was back in the sixties and seventies. Even the early eighties were good, grocery stores even supplied health insurances and paid holidays.

Mid Missouri. 30 miles east of me there's another small town with probably 10 factories, and 50 miles west is Kansas City where there's more than I can count. There's ALWAYS factory, warehouse, and construction jobs open. People just don't want to work them.

originally posted by: rickymouse
I agree with Trump. We are loosing jobs here because of Amazon and other online companies. We used to have way more job openings around here before the big box stores and internet sales started putting businesses out of business.

If we had plenty of manufacturing jobs for people to work at, it would be fine, but we don't, too much imports.

First they changed the base of our economy from manufacturing to consumer base, they the consumer base economy is being disrupted from way too much buying on the net, this path is not even sensible, sooner or later no money will be left to buy anything with.

It isn't just Amazon, look at all the huge online stores around.

You can agree with the general sentiment but his statement is still factually false and a lie as stated clearly in the OP.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Grambler

Amazon doesn't collect in-state sales taxes from 3rd party vendors so yes, they are working a loophole to avoid paying the taxes AND working that loophole puts them at an unequal advantage over local brick and mortar retailers. As for their USPS honeydeal, Amazon works the system. It isn't illegal, but it also isn't good for the overall economy of the system... www.freightwaves.com... the USPS is effectively subsidizing $1.50 of every package Amazon ships with them.

I can't disagree with Trump here. I also wouldn't shed any tears to see Bezos crescent kicked in the back of the head by a man wearing steel boots, but that's a position based on purely my personal feelings about the guy.

They've negotiated with the USPS the exact same way any other bulk mailer negotiates with the USPS. The USPS has already come out and said the relationship is working out well for both parties.

originally posted by: notsure1
Toys R us a staple store in America for years has to close, all those jobs lost as a direct result of Amazon..

Incorrect again.. Toys R Us is closing because Bain Capital (Mitt Romney's baby) took the company private a number of years ago and saddled the company with over $5.5BILLION in debt that it has never been able to get out from. Try again.

Grambler,
I don't disagree with you on Trump's motivation, however, I believe you are incorrect when claiming he is interfering with a free market. The whole point is that the market is tilted towards Amazon. They are being subsidised. Take all their breaks that smaller businesses do not get away from them, then you'll have your free market.

fortune.com...

originally posted by: UKTruth
Grambler,
I don't disagree with you on Trump's motivation, however, I believe you are incorrect when claiming he is interfering with a free market. The whole point is that the market is tilted towards Amazon. They are being subsidised. Take all their breaks that smaller businesses do not get away from them, then you'll have your free market.

fortune.com...

Look I am for ending favoritism with any company. The only possible subsidy that Amazon is getting is the USPS deal, and 3rd party vendors not paying state taxes.

In both instances, other companies such as ebay, estsy, and many others get similar treatment.

This forbes article, written about Trump exact comments, argues against the one you post.

fortune.com...

The deal with the USPS was offered because the USPS needs amazons business, and needs to compete with fedex and UPS.

If they are not allowed to charge less because they are selling their services in bulk, or because amazon makes the deliveries very convenient and easy for the USPS, they will lose money tremendously.

As far as the third party vendors, this is an issue with state and local taxes, and should be taken care by them, not by trump arbitrarily calling them out when he ignore all of the other companies that get the same treatment, or actual government subsidies.

People keep talking about state tax this state tax that. Amazon paid ZERO DOLLARS IN "FEDERAL" TAX for 2017 and made $5.6 billion. Yet citizens who can barely make ends meet sometimes still owe money to the IRS. So I don't care about free market and blah blah blah. When a company can profit BILLIONS and not pay a single penny to federal taxes but citizens still have to pay while eating ramen and chef Boyardee to survive, to me, is straight up BS.

I don't care what anyone says. Amazon is an evil corporation.

There is more to amazon that makes them a POS company but I won't go that far into it, although here is a few points

1. Amazon Flex (Their own delivery service) Uses independent contractors so they don't have to pay for insurance, workers comp, etc etc. They will also fire their drivers and does not have to give a reason. Cycles through suckers on a daily basis because they know people are desperate for work.

2. Fires hundreds of workers instead of repositioning them into different branches of the company just because they want to focus on alexa

3. Buys out other companies to corner the market causing other companies to shut their doors causing more to lose their jobs.

So enough about state taxes and whether they pay or not. There is so much more wrong with the company than silly state taxes.

originally posted by: DoubleDNH

originally posted by: rickymouse
I agree with Trump. We are loosing jobs here because of Amazon and other online companies. We used to have way more job openings around here before the big box stores and internet sales started putting businesses out of business.

If we had plenty of manufacturing jobs for people to work at, it would be fine, but we don't, too much imports.

First they changed the base of our economy from manufacturing to consumer base, they the consumer base economy is being disrupted from way too much buying on the net, this path is not even sensible, sooner or later no money will be left to buy anything with.

It isn't just Amazon, look at all the huge online stores around.

You can agree with the general sentiment but his statement is still factually false and a lie as stated clearly in the OP.

There is nothing false about my statement. I am not worried about jobs where the big distribution centers are, I am worried about jobs here in our area. The miners here make decent money, they are now buying a real lot of stuff online, the money is leaving the area instead of circulating and creating jobs. They are also flying to other places to spend their money on vacations, I would rather they stayed here and spent their money. In an area like this, keeping the money circulating as long as possible keeps people working.

I look at things the way people should look at them, I have seen most of our hardware stores shut down and most of the specialty shops because it is cheaper online. How are our residents going to live without government support? A hell of a lot more people are on food stamps now then I can ever remember.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: seeker1963
...but why in the hell does Amazon get out of paying taxes like any mom and pop shop does?

Same way Boeing, Caterpillar and all the other Fortune 500's (and then some) do, they negotiate with the local governments for tax credits or reductions.

The other thing Amazon does, which few other companies do, is that until recently (last year I think) it reinvested all profits back into the company, which gave them less taxable income.

originally posted by: Grambler
Look I am for ending favoritism with any company. The only possible subsidy that Amazon is getting is the USPS deal, and 3rd party vendors not paying state taxes.

The USPS deal isn't even favoritism. Being a common carrier or whatever the designation is, they're not allowed to sign exclusive contracts (neither is UPS or FedEx). What they can do is set criteria for a deal and tailor it to a specific company, but anyone who meets the criteria has to be eligible for that specific partnership.

a reply to: Grambler

Amazon and many other big .coms are CIA backed, seems like they're all coming under fire too

a reply to: Grambler

I dont like bezos like I dont like most MSM people,he is a propagandists.

Fair enough. I will keep that point about propagandist in mind while observing what prompts (sources you refer to and inspires you) in all your future threads and post...

Trump doesnt like him because he is anti trump and runs overwhelming negative coverage of trump.

Did you arrive at that conclusion based on fact or is it based on subjectivity...? In other words: Have you personally spoken to Trump...?

I dont like trump doing this, because it sets a bad precedent

How so...? And, a bad precedent for what or whom...?

and I dont like the economy hinging on which companies the president personally likes or hates.

Why...?

a reply to: Grambler

He is not wrong to criticize,however, his criticism may be wrong. Often times it is only when we bring up what we think we know before others do we either find out that we were wrong and re calibrate or that we are right and brought an issue to the attention of others.

In this case we brought his perspective before the spotlight, and with a type of "crowd-sourced" public scrutiny the situation will present its results.

When we shun criticism then we abandon the first founding principle of our culture, the freedom to share ones ideas and thoughts, regardless of who is sharing them and whether they are wrong.

As far as the topic at hand, amazon does much for the US and the global world at large, but also plays the same tax evasion game all the big business play. Whether Trump's statements are true or not will present themselves in time.

originally posted by: Aazadan
The other thing Amazon does, which few other companies do, is that until recently (last year I think) it reinvested all profits back into the company, which gave them less taxable income.

That's really stupid of them, they should be punished.