You Want Racism? Reality in comedy........

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Blackface and minstrel shows were the "norm/innocent" at some time too, but now are seen as very insensitive.

Will male impersonaters like Lilly Savage, Dame Edna Everage, and Danny La Rue

become insensitive in time too?

And in Shakespeare's time men took the part of women, doesn't make it

misogynistic.

Here's a fun history lesson for you. Did you know that the banjo was not originally folk instrument of white people? Those "innocent/normal" shows were responsible for destroying a very colorful and rich musical tradition. LUCKILY the banjo's musical tradition recovered and is even seeing a resurgence in modern pop music

Does ii really matter matter where it came from? How do you get to it destroying a

colourful and rich tradition? it just enlarges on an audience and increases the range

in music for ALL to enjoy.

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: Krazysh0t
Agreed, but its not PC to look at the WHOLE picture why that might be the case. Sure in some cases its racism but I bet culture and environment also has a lot to do with it, but that is not PC to discuss. While it might be uncomfortable and awkward to discuss, it certainly cant be taken off the table if you really want to address the issue.

That's a fair point. Can't argue with that.

BTW I'm not white and came to this country at a young age with absolutely nothing and grew up poor. I can tell you a big reason I was able to escape poverty and and get an education was because of my family and using the gov't assistance to get on our feet versus being complacent with being on the system.

snipped most of the story for space issues. Sorry mate

Sure we had luck , great friends that helped , and even local merchants that helped , but I can tell you that blaming anyone but yourself does more harm than good from what i have seen. You can only fix the circumstances your are in or the path you want to take for the future by going over all the speed bumps life throws at you , versus waiting for the speed bump to disapear. Blaming others or circumstances is of no value to yourself. The ones that focused on the speed bumps of life and blamed everyone else for not getting ahead are still in the same place from what I saw.

Awesome! I'm glad things worked out for you and you and your family did well for yourselves.

I rather not focus on blaming anyone , i just would like to look at the complete picture and really try to make things better. From what I see the strategy being used is actually more focused on blame than actually resolving the issue.

True, but this is a symptom of our total political climate moreso than just dealing with PC. In US politics it is easier and more politically beneficial in the short run (which is all that matters to politicians in the States) to point fingers and MAYBE band-aid an issue with enough pressure on them instead of working out a long term solution that won't reap any benefits until after they are out of office.

There may be a lot of animosity towards the ACA on ATS, but one thing you can say about the Dems who passed it is they were putting their desire to find a real solution to a problem above their jobs security. Many that voted for it KNEW that it was unlikely they'd be reelected with its short term unpopularity being so high, but they did so anyways. So even if you disagree with their solution, at least that is something.

But lest not forget that Black tribesman also sold the opposing captured black people to those Europeans. There is no race that has cleans hands when it comes to human atrocities.

True, but the international slave trade was outlawed in 1807 (only 16 years after the Constitution was ratified); meanwhile slavery continued in this country for another 56 years. It should be noted that for the first 70 years our country was a nation, the Southern states practically held the Northern states hostage by threat of succession if slavery was ever infringed on, this led to all those famous compromises that are discussed in US history classes.

However, sometimes to move ahead you got to stop with putting the primary focus on the blame game and concentrate on what do we need to do to move ahead. It gets to the point where focusing on the blame becomes counterintuitive and this is where I think we are at. We have created two groups one of victims and one of villians and that is not actually the reality nor helpful.

I agree with this. Even in my work life if I see something is wrong and needs fixing, when I bring it up to my department co-workers and supervisor during our daily meetings I make a point of leaving the culprit vague. Even if I know who did it. Blame never fixes a problem.

IT WAS PC back in the sense it was OK to discuss such thing openly in the MSM without anyone questioning, just like today its PC to call the white man privileged and racist without a second thought.

Ok I guess I see the point you are making here.

I didn't say all PC is bad or didn't serve a purpose. What I'm questioning today is , if the extreme PC of today has reached a point where it might be doing more harm than good?

No more so than calling every SJW or liberal a nazi or fascist just because they preach SJW or PC rhetoric.

Dont disagree, but there are certain ways to decrease the amount of backlash and the way its being handled today is not the way of doing it.

Such ways require a concerted effort. Unfortunately no group is 100% a total hive mind in beliefs. Everyone has nuances and limits to the depth they will carry their rhetoric. Some more than others. So while you could organize a group to handle it correctly (say the giant women's march the day after Trump's inauguration that broke national protest records) at the same time there will be others making a bad name for it (the rioters who "protested" the day of Trump's inauguration). Those women who came out and peacefully made their concerns known can't be held responsible for the trouble makers who just wanted to destroy things because a person they didn't like assumed the highest office in the country.

Like I said the GOP is certainly not Innocent on any of this but when it comes to racism and grouping people into victims and villians the DNC has the Microphone.

I really don't believe either side is worse than the other. They are both equally awful in my eyes. How often do you see people try to lump all protesters into the vein of Antifa's craziness? Heck, you brought up BLM. There are many BLM proponents who aren't rioting, disparaging police, or just making a general nuisance of themselves. They speak candidly and thoughtfully, but you'd never know it if you listen to the right wing talk about them.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Whenever you see a black person, do you think it is ok to call them the n word to their face?

If the answer is no then you support at least SOME political correctness.

No.... because you are a 'lady' and not a coarse/vulgar/ill bred woman

likewise

No....because you are a 'gentleman' and not an uncultured/crude/loutish man


*Manners* Nothing to do with supporting political correctness.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Whenever you see a black person, do you think it is ok to call them the n word to their face?

If the answer is no then you support at least SOME political correctness.

No.... because you are a 'lady' and not a coarse/vulgar/ill bred woman

likewise

No....because you are a 'gentleman' and not an uncultured/crude/loutish man


*Manners* Nothing to do with supporting political correctness.

As I said earlier, PC in its base form is about being polite and having manners in mixed company.

originally posted by: eletheia
Will male impersonaters like Lilly Savage, Dame Edna Everage, and Danny La Rue

become insensitive in time too?

Maybe. I'm not familiar with those people so I can't reliably predict their lasting outcome, though at the same time, the future is unknowable. Your eraser on your pencil could become offensive in the future. Who knows? People are weird.

And in Shakespeare's time men took the part of women, doesn't make it

misogynistic.

Actually, yes. That was VERY misogynistic. It was believed that women weren't allowed (or were assumed to be incapable of it) to act at the time so they used under-aged boys instead. There is a reason why when we do Shakespeare plays today we don't continue to do this practice and instead cast actual women for those roles.

Does ii really matter matter where it came from? How do you get to it destroying a

colourful and rich tradition? it just enlarges on an audience and increases the range

in music for ALL to enjoy.

Did you miss the part where it caused the traditional players of the instrument to quit out of embarrassment? And how are "all" enjoying this when those people are quitting out of embarrassment?

a reply to: sapien82

MY favourties for this are Chappelle , Ralphie May , and Bill Burr , Donald Glover is ok on racism as well

Some of Chappelle's recent stuff has been awesome. Just when I thought Burr and Jefferies owned the level of f****** unbeatable, he came back and rose above them. You didn't mention Boyle? He's another who I think is one of the best stand-ups around for taking the piss out of PC. Boyle's one of the few stand-ups who can literally make me wince and clench at the same time lol.

A bunch of these guys pop up on the comedy podcast circuit and regularly nail PC-related antics and campus craziness. For instance, did you know Seinfeld gave up on college shows because they're too punitive?! He's about as clean a comic as you can find and too 'edgy' for the wilfully offended.

I've never rated Ralphie May and will give him another chance because I listened to a bit when I fixed your YT embed.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Hey Kandinsky thanks for fixing that embed !

Frankie Boyle is pretty funny , he can be quite shocking, I find it funny that he has so many pedophile jokes considering he works for the BBC !
As long as we have a united effort at standing up to these kinds of oppression and interference from state or government we at least can maybe make them repeal these ridiculous acts , the legislation in the UK makes a mockery of democracy.
It is an offense to our intelligence and our own determination as free agents , with reason and the ability to lead our own lives. We need to stop being treated as objects of the law and objects by government and state.
Im glad that comedians are standing against this at least some of them , and I hope the rest of the arts rally against this too! Musicians , Poets, Writers, artists , it is an assualt on our freedom of expression.

a reply to: eletheia

Yes, "they" changed it to Tiger.

Stuff like that was a just a fact of life.

I'm italian growing up in a mostly WASP town with a last name that lends itself to many creative interpretations.

My neighbor now, is from India, he said to call him Sing, I'm sure there is an H on the end of it, since his friends wear the turbans and probably assumes I couldn't pronounce his name anyway.

Which reminds me, he has my allen wrench set I need to get back. lol.

Ok, All in the Family caused a stir back in the day.

The Jeffersons spin off, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

And that Gary Coleman thing. Forget the name.

All dealt with racism with comedy to an extent it was relevant.

M.A.S.H. Even SNL.

TV shows were much better then. lol. More honest in reflecting proportional mainstream reality.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Did you know that the banjo was not originally folk instrument of white people?

So you agree that culture creep/cultural appropriation is undesirable?

That arguments goes both ways.

Hmmm? I was just bringing up an example of how racist norms hurt the development of an instrument's musical theory. I never mentioned my position on culture creep or cultural appropriation. I happen to LOVE Bluegrass music and the banjo is a cornerstone of it. That doesn't mean I approve of their usage during the minstrel shows.

Really?

When i think of banjo music I go straight to Deliverance, not minstrel shows.

That backwoods inbred mongoloid kid who was white.

Talk about racist!

a reply to: burgerbuddy




Lol.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Did you know that the banjo was not originally folk instrument of white people?

So you agree that culture creep/cultural appropriation is undesirable?

That arguments goes both ways.

Hmmm? I was just bringing up an example of how racist norms hurt the development of an instrument's musical theory. I never mentioned my position on culture creep or cultural appropriation. I happen to LOVE Bluegrass music and the banjo is a cornerstone of it. That doesn't mean I approve of their usage during the minstrel shows.

Really?

When i think of banjo music I go straight to Deliverance, not minstrel shows.

That backwoods inbred mongoloid kid who was white.

Talk about racist!

Sounds like a personal problem to me. Maybe expand your music horizons a bit? The banjo exists more than just in Deliverance as the tool of backwards mountain people.