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David Hogg evading Debate challenge from fellow Parkland student

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posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 08:21 PM
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a reply to: villagesmithie

I still don't think it would stop people.

Humans always find a way to get what they want.

lol If we end up going that rout my crazy ass will be living off grid in the forest or sewers. They wont know what the hell I'm up to.




posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: villagesmithie

Things to do:

- link mental health records to NICS
- put some actual effort into antibullying
- eliminate the rote memorization for testing and remove the pressure. If we cant make education fun we arent doing it right
- hold public officials who do not enforce the laws accountable so existing systems can have a chance to work
- training for teachers on behavoiral intervention. My son is a behavoiral teacher in San antonio and his biggest obstacle are his fellow teachers not knowing how to interact with students.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 08:32 PM
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a reply to: scraedtosleep




Not even a police state could stop me if I put my mind to it.


Your already in the data base.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: villagesmithie

Agreed. However privacy will never be given to you. You have to take it

Using TOR/i2p/Proton Mail/PGP/Veracrypt/Ironkey/etc will help. You can even find instructions online for setting up an "isolating TOR proxy" that sits beyond a Wireless Access Point, just make sure to use a trusted OS like Qubes to prevent incidental leakage over TOR

Whether it is gun rights, privacy rights, religious freedom, abortion (which I personally abhor), free speech, or any other right...it is important to support all rights, all the time. Otherwise, who will be left to defend the rights you care about when the others are gone?

The government exists only to uphold our freedoms, treasury, and defend our borders (and more broadly, national interests) among a few other things. It does not and should never be charged with determining which rights we do and do not need nor which extent they (or a segment of the population) claim we can exercise these rights. They are called rights for a reason. Unalienable rights, in fact.

I think there is a serious gang and crime problem that has built itself on the breakdown of morality in our society. The atmosphere of the 2016 election proves that much. That entire debacle was uncalled for, all the way around. At some point, somebody needed to say "lets knock this BS off and take the high road" and unfortunately it never happened.

Instead we've focused on BS political differences, trying to convince the other side they're wrong/we're right, etc. That is a losing battle. And entirely unneeded. The saying "we agree to disagree" should've never been swept under the rug. And the fact we're even having to defend an enshrined Constitutional right really surprises me.

On that note, for those who say we refuse to discuss guns, you're simply wrong. We refuse to discuss it in the context of bans on specific firearms, bans on arbitrary and irrelevant physical features, bans on magazine capacity, bans on law abiding adults having the right to self defense, total firearm confiscation, public carry prohibition, or second amendment abolition. That is not exhaustive, nor does it speak for anybody else. But it does give you an idea what a majority of gun owners (who best know firearms) may not be interested in discussing. If not only because logically we realize criminals will never follow the law, and that disarming or degrading our own defensive capacity in the face of an assured criminal capability for violence/deadly force is entirely irrational.

What am I personally interested in? Namely:

1) enforcing existing laws
-BATFE prosecutes less than 1% of prohibited persons attempting to purchase a firearm or those caught in possession of one (typically the latter is handled by State criminal charges)

2) expanding background checks
-Providing private sellers with the means to runs queries against the NICS database when conducting a private transaction.

3) cracking down on violent crime
-This is pretty obvious to me. Expanding surveillance and interdiction of known gang members. Using existing court tested anti-gang statutes and federal RICO prosecutions to disrupt gangs and organized crime

4) dealing with the elephant in the room
-Mental health plays a large role in these incidents. Contrary to certain individuals being unwilling to discuss this, no sane or healthy individual would ever consider murdering any innocent person, let alone the type of stuff we've seen in recent years.
edit on 3/28/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/28/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

All good suggestions. Unfortunately I see to little of that. And if one "side" purposes it, it will be argued against from the other side.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 08:40 PM
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a reply to: villagesmithie

Yea. I cant make anyone listen to me. Not sure theyd want to.

But i can say that while i lean right...im nonpartisan enough to pass for either group.

If it helps, i didnt think this stuff up. Its the result of discussions with a child who teaches



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 08:43 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: villagesmithie

Things to do:

- link mental health records to NICS
- put some actual effort into antibullying
- eliminate the rote memorization for testing and remove the pressure. If we cant make education fun we arent doing it right
- hold public officials who do not enforce the laws accountable so existing systems can have a chance to work
- training for teachers on behavoiral intervention. My son is a behavoiral teacher in San antonio and his biggest obstacle are his fellow teachers not knowing how to interact with students.


Some more excellent suggestions by Texan


I am at a loss why these near universally accepted ideas (some were around 90% if I recall) are not being discussed, and instead we continue to hear individuals calling for extreme action up to and including second amendment abolition

I haven't met a gun owner yet who isn't willing to talk about these things



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

I told a friend "sure throw it in the closet" back in 1978 turned out "it" was stolen and worth over $300 the then limit for a felony possession of stolen property. So I have never owned a gun. I believe that is extreme but it's the law.

My opinion is guns ownership should be handled like auto's. License, registration, insurance. That is over the line for many gun rights people.

Mental health is not that simple. Who decides when someone is not "OK" to have a gun. I heard a suggestion recently that people in a stressful situation (divorcee for example) should surrender their guns for a period of time. Do you think that would be acceptable? I don't, and that is the kind of situation where an otherwise sane person could make a rash choice.

I feel like I'm diverting the thread so enough.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 08:55 PM
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originally posted by: villagesmithie
a reply to: face23785

Back to the topic of this thread. Why doesn't he debate? ,or your question. Why won't I debate?

There is no debate on gun control. Waste of time. There will be diddling around the edges of gun laws but no real control.

So, why debate it?

The thing is there are kids dying, you can claim it's a media conspiracy, whatever. These kids are pushed to the point where they feel a protests is there only option. I hear ideas that it's mental illness, poor parenting, or lack of GOD whoever that might be. But, no solution.

So the question is...What is the solution?

Put on your tin foil thinking caps and what we are left with is............maybe I'll make a thread sometime but not today.


I don't think there's any media conspiracy.

Still, there are plenty of things to talk about. For one, clearing up a lot of misconceptions people have about guns and specifically AR-15s and "high capacity" magazines can stop us from being distracted and let us cut through the crap to get to the real issues. I did a thread on magazine limits here.

Plenty of solutions have been proposed. For one, the background check system is a mess. Having background checks is useless, even if we did make them "universal", if there's no data in the database. But nobody wants to focus on that, they just want to close the "loopholes" even though criminals rarely and mass shooters pretty much never utilize them to get guns. We'd be better served focusing on things that could actually stop these people. We've had two mass shooters recently that should not have been able to legally purchase a weapon, but in one case the Air Force failed to send the data and in the FL case the local officials failed to pursue any action against Cruz that would have led to him having convictions on his record that would flag him during a background check. We need improved reporting standards so that background checks actually work, and we need to hold local officials accountable when they fail to take action against someone who had a record of warning signs as long as my arm.

Another thing we can use is to take school security more seriously. Immediately I get cries of "we're turning our schools into prisons!" and "it will be scary for the kids" or they think all that will happen is more people will die because it'll turn into a movie-style shootout. Interestingly, no one makes any of those claims for places that already have such security that people routinely take their kids: airports, banks, malls, you name it. Somehow, it's not a problem any of those places, but we can't do it for schools? I'm a proponent of arming teachers, only if there are very high standards for them as far as training, evaluation, and only if it's voluntary. Nobody is proposing forcing all teachers to carry guns. But if we can't agree on that, there are still things we can do to improve the security. Sadly, the people who can best give you a sound tactical analysis and provide the most practical and effective solutions for how to better secure the schools are the very "gun nuts" nobody on the gun control side wants to listen to.

The mental health aspect is definitely something we need to look at. Decades ago, people could be involuntarily committed for all kinds of silly reasons, and conditions in our mental institutions were abhorrent. These days, we have people with serious mental health issues wandering around in our society like a time bomb because it's too "cruel" to deny them their quality of life and yadda yadda yadda. I'm not saying we should go back to the way it was, but surely there is some sensible middle ground between what we used to have and the completely inadequate way we address mental health now. Obviously what we have now is not working. That is a much more complicated issue, but we at least need to start down that road if we're ever going to figure it out.

If you're interested in other avenues, perhaps check out the study that is linked to in the thread in my sig. A lot of gun control advocates don't even know that study actually got done, because they think CDC can't fund gun violence research. That's false. They did, the study was done, and they identified a number of areas that we need to pursue. That study came out in 2013. No further action was taken by the Obama administration. We need more research and data. I realize that's not a quick fix, like "ban ARs", but if you want a real solution it's going to take time. And the longer we throw our hands up and say "we'll never agree, so # it!" the longer it will take us to get there.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 09:07 PM
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originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: olaru12

off topic but yeah....the wall. Any conservative worth their salt should be disgusted at what that wall is going to do to the debt.

Maybe that's way he signed that omnibus bill? So that the military could fund it....such a waste of money.


The Dems wanted to spend it all on cameras and more border agents manning the cameras as they pour through a non existent border. They probably wanted a head count of future voters, it's their version of the census.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 09:08 PM
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originally posted by: JBurns

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: villagesmithie

Things to do:

- link mental health records to NICS
- put some actual effort into antibullying
- eliminate the rote memorization for testing and remove the pressure. If we cant make education fun we arent doing it right
- hold public officials who do not enforce the laws accountable so existing systems can have a chance to work
- training for teachers on behavoiral intervention. My son is a behavoiral teacher in San antonio and his biggest obstacle are his fellow teachers not knowing how to interact with students.


Some more excellent suggestions by Texan


I am at a loss why these near universally accepted ideas (some were around 90% if I recall) are not being discussed, and instead we continue to hear individuals calling for extreme action up to and including second amendment abolition

I haven't met a gun owner yet who isn't willing to talk about these things


I'll second this. Most of us are more than willing to discuss and educate. Part of the problem is a lot of gun control advocates don't want to learn. They just want to call us terrorists and dumb hicks and read some more Mother Jones. Of course that doesn't represent all gun control advocates, but they are as much a part of the problem as gun rights advocates who won't listen either. If you can get them to calm down, realize you're not just some dumb hillbilly who #s his gun, and listen to you, many of them can grasp your explanation of a lot of the misconceptions they have. You won't necessarily change their mind on everything but if they take the time to listen usually their eyes are opened a bit.

I know, I used to be one. The more I learned, the more amazed I was at how much of what I thought I "knew" about guns was bogus.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 09:10 PM
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originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: olaru12

off topic but yeah....the wall. Any conservative worth their salt should be disgusted at what that wall is going to do to the debt.

Maybe that's way he signed that omnibus bill? So that the military could fund it....such a waste of money.


The Dems wanted to spend it all on cameras and more border agents manning the cameras as they pour through a non existent border. They probably wanted a head count of future voters, it's their version of the census.


The cost of the wall is a drop in the bucket of the debt. If they really did sneak wall funding into the military budget, and the military can be fully funded, I don't give a #.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 09:14 PM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: olaru12

off topic but yeah....the wall. Any conservative worth their salt should be disgusted at what that wall is going to do to the debt.

Maybe that's way he signed that omnibus bill? So that the military could fund it....such a waste of money.


The Dems wanted to spend it all on cameras and more border agents manning the cameras as they pour through a non existent border. They probably wanted a head count of future voters, it's their version of the census.


The cost of the wall is a drop in the bucket of the debt. If they really did sneak wall funding into the military budget, and the military can be fully funded, I don't give a #.


As I understand it, the POTUS is in absolute command of the military, it is his sworn duty to uphold national defense and the border wall is a literal defense structure of the nation. He tricked them dirty Dems into giving him the biggest military budget increase since Reagan, now he gets to spend it on national defense and there is nothing they can do about it.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 09:22 PM
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originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: olaru12

off topic but yeah....the wall. Any conservative worth their salt should be disgusted at what that wall is going to do to the debt.

Maybe that's way he signed that omnibus bill? So that the military could fund it....such a waste of money.


The Dems wanted to spend it all on cameras and more border agents manning the cameras as they pour through a non existent border. They probably wanted a head count of future voters, it's their version of the census.


The cost of the wall is a drop in the bucket of the debt. If they really did sneak wall funding into the military budget, and the military can be fully funded, I don't give a #.


As I understand it, the POTUS is in absolute command of the military, it is his sworn duty to uphold national defense and the border wall is a literal defense structure of the nation. He tricked them dirty Dems into giving him the biggest military budget increase since Reagan, now he gets to spend it on national defense and there is nothing they can do about it.


I'm sure they will sue over it, but in the end I think he will win because as you said as President he has sole discretion to decide what's a national security issue. Congress doesn't micromanage and approve every dollar the military spends, they approve broad line items but the specific spending is left up to the Pentagon and lower levels. I used to purchase supplies for my unit, spending that government dime.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: villagesmithie

- threats or ideations that relates to self harm or harming another
- overt violent behaviora
- psychosis
- mood disorders

Thats a pretty good start.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 09:35 PM
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originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: JBurns

David hogg does not have the power to take away anything from anyone.
But trump does.

So who should you be directing your anger toward.
A kid with no real power or the guy that took away your right to own a bump stock?

Trump is the ONLY person that has taken anything from you .


Except that he didn’t and probably won’t.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: villagesmithie

- threats or ideations that relates to self harm or harming another
- overt violent behaviora
- psychosis
- mood disorders

Thats a pretty good start.


Getting competent school guards with a competent police chief that are not in a nanny district like Debbie whatshername shooootz reigned supreme should be a starting point of investigating the cause and effect. If I had a kid in a dark blue district, I would get him/her out fast because this is where historically now, all the dominoes line up just perfectly to fall over into tragedy.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 10:11 PM
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a reply to: face23785

Excellent points face23785


(o/t: I hope you don't mind, but I borrowed the link in your signature)



posted on Mar, 29 2018 @ 08:19 AM
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originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: face23785

Excellent points face23785


(o/t: I hope you don't mind, but I borrowed the link in your signature)


Borrow it all you want, the whole point of me making that thread was to get the information out there.



posted on Mar, 29 2018 @ 08:21 AM
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originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: villagesmithie

- threats or ideations that relates to self harm or harming another
- overt violent behaviora
- psychosis
- mood disorders

Thats a pretty good start.


Getting competent school guards with a competent police chief that are not in a nanny district like Debbie whatshername shooootz reigned supreme should be a starting point of investigating the cause and effect. If I had a kid in a dark blue district, I would get him/her out fast because this is where historically now, all the dominoes line up just perfectly to fall over into tragedy.



This is another reason why I'm an advocate of letting teachers carry. Again, only the ones that want to carry and only after the go through background checks, training and evaluation. Guards can be inept or in another place when it happens, and they have to choose to run inside and put their life in danger. The teachers are already right there, their life is already in danger. And they often have more of a connection to their kids than some guard is going to have, thus more of an incentive to try to protect them.



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