Special counsel: Manafort, Gates worked with Russian intelligence agent

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: soberbacchus

Wasnt this person with "ties to Russian intelligence" a paid FBI informant /undercover employee?

and doesnt his work history with the FBI directly pertain to setting up former Soviet oligarchs in sting operations for trying to illegally buy energy related industrial secrets?

So his "ties" to the Russian underworld are FBI made and designed? (FBI Employee).

Wasnt he also in a "walk in" volunteer position within the Trump election campaign? (FBI plant)
???

EDIT TO ADD:
Was he still employed by the FBI as a paid undercover informant while "volunteering" for the Trump campaign?

What on Gods green earth are you talking about?

You think you know who "person A" is?

Link?

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: soberbacchus

Only confirms what Jerome Corsi was talking about on C2C last night. The FBI is operating a behind the scenes coup d'etat to overthrow the Trump Presidency, working in tandem with the CIA's media campaign against Trump via the MSM.

Cool! Trump supporters are watching their country being stolen from them right beneath their noses.

Angst and anguish for them; glee and delight for the Deep State Globalists and their supporters.

the deep state is a bi partisan affair that 99% of the time forces a far right economic agenda on its "enemies"

a reply to: angeldoll

What happened with podesta? He was let slide while they grilled Manafort over the same things they let him slide on.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: soberbacchus

Wasnt this person with "ties to Russian intelligence" a paid FBI informant /undercover employee?

and doesnt his work history with the FBI directly pertain to setting up former Soviet oligarchs in sting operations for trying to illegally buy energy related industrial secrets?

So his "ties" to the Russian underworld are FBI made and designed? (FBI Employee).

Wasnt he also in a "walk in" volunteer position within the Trump election campaign? (FBI plant)
???

EDIT TO ADD:
Was he still employed by the FBI as a paid undercover informant while "volunteering" for the Trump campaign?

What on Gods green earth are you talking about?

You think you know who "person A" is?

Link?

Rick Gates was a paid FBI informant. His spy career was washed up after testifying against Russians in court.

If he was a volunteer for Trump, how was he paying his bills? Is he set for life or what? Gates seems like exactly the kind of person Stryzok and Clinton would be sending as a mole.

Is any of Rick Gates or Paul Manaforts personal business dealings related to Trumps campaign?

How would it be possible that Trump or anyone else would have known about their personal lives?

Too bad it's not illegal to talk to a former Russian spy. This ain't Hollywood with all the fancy Winter Soldier and Red Sparrow stuff. Russia is very important to America. Without Russia there would be no International Space Station.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Grambler

Again though, let's not act like this is unique to trump.

What others have done in the past, or might do in the future, has no bearing on this moment in time, or what Donald Trump does while he is in the WH. He stands alone in his debauchery, because he is the incumbent, and charged with governing the country now.

Always a stupid argument.
Precedent is very important. If you go through years of ignoring and not caring about the slime in Washington and the 'debauchery' of politicians with a legal system that turns a blind eye, then all of sudden care and want to indict people, then the playing field remains uneven and what you end up with are ideological and political witch hunts.
Hypocrisy has no place in the legal system.
Remember Hillary being allowed to stay a free woman because no-one else had been indicted for years for her clear crime?

The 'only now is relevant' argument I see from the left is solely made to shield themselves from obvious hypocrisy.

a reply to: soberbacchus

Far right or far left are both just as bad. I am shocked however at the lack of critical thinking and logic the far right demonstrate here lately.

a reply to: Grambler

The question is did Trump work with another country to try to influence the election. That is a crime.

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: Grambler

The question is did Trump work with another country to try to influence the election. That is a crime.

But that is a very vague statement.

Is talking to the BBC to get good coverage to help you in the election a crime?

Is having your people work with the ukranian government to get dirt on your opponent a crime?

Is hiring a former spy of another country to get dirt on your opponent a crime?

Is that spy then working with Kremlin officials to get that dirt a crime?

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: Grambler

The question is did Trump work with another country to try to influence the election. That is a crime.

But that is a very vague statement.

Is talking to the BBC to get good coverage to help you in the election a crime?

Is having your people work with the ukranian government to get dirt on your opponent a crime?

Is hiring a former spy of another country to get dirt on your opponent a crime?

Is that spy then working with Kremlin officials to get that dirt a crime?

These are actually really good questions/thought experiments to expound on. I guess the thrust of them is delineated by the point at which outside influence starts to affect the results of our domestic governmental prerogatives.

One one side, I can see that merely receiving blanket aid in an election (in a general sense) can be seen as no different than hiring a domestic agency to manage/acquire information or propaganda to help influence ones chances of succeeding in an election (something both sides do wholesale).

One the other side, its no secret that countries like Russia have a wealth of reasons why they would want to affect and/or control the outcome of another countries elections (most obvious being for beneficial/preferential treatment on the international issues that are important to them, not to mention altering the dynamic of world governmental interactions).

Ultimately my opinion is driven primarily by our inability to discern what is in fact truth and what is propaganda. If it was obvious, the affect of a country like Russia to provide support to a particular candidate or party becomes lessened because it would be easy to evaluate the demarcation between whether the information is legitimate or whether it is propaganda. Since no such entity or avenue of verification of information is readily available or widely disseminated, we are left with both a suspicious desire to avoid influence peddlers from other countries interfering in our election process, while at the same time engendering freedom of agency for candidates to employ assistance in their campaigning from anyone/everyone they see fit to do so.

Is a third party repository/fact checking agency feasible that could remain impartial enough to provide the aforementioned avenue of verification that would empower voters to assess all information? I doubt it, because I can't see how such a thing could spring into existence and remain unvarnished by partisanship.

I think every country meddles in every other countries election, and there is no particular way to stop that in reality.

originally posted by: ItsNotIronic

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: soberbacchus

Wasnt this person with "ties to Russian intelligence" a paid FBI informant /undercover employee?

and doesnt his work history with the FBI directly pertain to setting up former Soviet oligarchs in sting operations for trying to illegally buy energy related industrial secrets?

So his "ties" to the Russian underworld are FBI made and designed? (FBI Employee).

Wasnt he also in a "walk in" volunteer position within the Trump election campaign? (FBI plant)
???

EDIT TO ADD:
Was he still employed by the FBI as a paid undercover informant while "volunteering" for the Trump campaign?

What on Gods green earth are you talking about?

You think you know who "person A" is?

Link?

Rick Gates was a paid FBI informant. His spy career was washed up after testifying against Russians in court.

If he was a volunteer for Trump, how was he paying his bills? Is he set for life or what? Gates seems like exactly the kind of person Stryzok and Clinton would be sending as a mole.

You seem to have invented some outlandish stuff there.

Can you provide a link to support any of it?

a reply to: Wayfarer

Good reply.

The problem is twofold, fisrt the laws seem to be written in very vaugue ways open for interpretation.

Secondly, they seem to rarely be applied.

Take the FARA laws, which are routinely broken by many lobbyist, yet almost no one is ever charged.

Now we can all have opinions on what is shay or unecthical, and what should be illegal. I personally think that almost all of these foreign lobbyists are disgusting and much of it should be criminal if its not out in the open.

But what is the law, and how do we make sure its being evenly applied.

That is what concerns me about statements like "Working with a foriegn government to influence the election is illegal"

Well what does that mean. Pretty much every campaign to some degree does this.

Now what I can say is that if Manafort Gates or anyone on trumps team offered policy favorbility to russia in exchange for help winning the election, everyone involved should be prosecuted.

But beyond thaat, it seems like peole are being selective in the application of the law, such as mueller.

Yes, it seems like manafort violated FARA filing laws. Great, charge him. But why not charge Mercury LLC, and the Podesta group, who the very indictment mentions as working with manafort to do this?

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: Grambler

The question is did Trump work with another country to try to influence the election. That is a crime.

But that is a very vague statement.

Is talking to the BBC to get good coverage to help you in the election a crime?

Is having your people work with the ukranian government to get dirt on your opponent a crime?

Is hiring a former spy of another country to get dirt on your opponent a crime?

Is that spy then working with Kremlin officials to get that dirt a crime?

Their Queen doesn't commit crimes. The mere suggestion of such is sooooo sexist.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Wayfarer



Yes, it seems like manafort violated FARA filing laws. Great, charge him. But why not charge Mercury LLC, and the Podesta group, who the very indictment mentions as working with manafort to do this?

Equability demands if they are guilty of the same crime they should be charged as such. As a liberal I don't care if its a liberal entity that breaks the law either, the action is pretty damning regardless.

Has there been any counter argument as to why Merury LLC & the Podesta Group have been exempt from these charges so far?

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Wayfarer



Yes, it seems like manafort violated FARA filing laws. Great, charge him. But why not charge Mercury LLC, and the Podesta group, who the very indictment mentions as working with manafort to do this?

Equability demands if they are guilty of the same crime they should be charged as such. As a liberal I don't care if its a liberal entity that breaks the law either, the action is pretty damning regardless.

Has there been any counter argument as to why Merury LLC & the Podesta Group have been exempt from these charges so far?

I know at least with the Podesta group, when they were found out to have violated this, they were contacted by the FBI and allowed to retroactively file as foriegn lobbyists.

The Podesta Group belatedly filed several new disclosures with the Justice Department on Aug. 17 related to work the firm completed between 2012 and 2014 on behalf of a pro-Russia Ukrainian think tank.

Back in April, the powerful Washington lobbying firm run by Clinton ally Tony Podesta filed a document admitting its work for the pro-Russia European Centre for a Modern Ukraine may have principally benefited a foreign government. New disclosures revealed dozens of previously unreported interactions the firm made with influential government offices, including Hillary Clinton's State Department and the office of former Vice President Joe Biden, while lobbying on behalf of the center. Embattled ex-Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort failed to disclose his extensive lobbying efforts on behalf of the center at the time as well.

Anyone lobbying or doing public relations on behalf of foreign governments is required to register as a foreign agent in compliance with the Foreign Agents Registration Act. The Aug. 17 filings include short-form registration statements for six Podesta Group employees and an amendment to the firm's registration statement that includes a list of political contributions made by relevant employees throughout 2013.

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

I have read elsewhere that this is normally what happens, on all sides of the aisle.

You lobby for a foreign government without filing, and then years later if you get caught, you say my bad and fill out retroactive paperwork saying you were lobbying for foreign governments and that you just forgot to fill out the paperwork.

One good thing from Mueller investigation would be if all of these laws started to be enforced the way they were intended on all sides.

a reply to: Grambler

So we are splitting hairs then.

Is the BBC the UK government?
Was the spy currently employed by the government?

Did Donald Trump ask the Russians to hack hillary’s Emails?

Simply put his one statement was borderline treason. He got himself into this mess and continues to make it worse. You think they would be looking to pardon people if there wasn’t proof of a crime?!?

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Wayfarer



Yes, it seems like manafort violated FARA filing laws. Great, charge him. But why not charge Mercury LLC, and the Podesta group, who the very indictment mentions as working with manafort to do this?

Equability demands if they are guilty of the same crime they should be charged as such. As a liberal I don't care if its a liberal entity that breaks the law either, the action is pretty damning regardless.

Has there been any counter argument as to why Merury LLC & the Podesta Group have been exempt from these charges so far?

I know at least with the Podesta group, when they were found out to have violated this, they were contacted by the FBI and allowed to retroactively file as foriegn lobbyists.

The Podesta Group belatedly filed several new disclosures with the Justice Department on Aug. 17 related to work the firm completed between 2012 and 2014 on behalf of a pro-Russia Ukrainian think tank.

Back in April, the powerful Washington lobbying firm run by Clinton ally Tony Podesta filed a document admitting its work for the pro-Russia European Centre for a Modern Ukraine may have principally benefited a foreign government. New disclosures revealed dozens of previously unreported interactions the firm made with influential government offices, including Hillary Clinton's State Department and the office of former Vice President Joe Biden, while lobbying on behalf of the center. Embattled ex-Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort failed to disclose his extensive lobbying efforts on behalf of the center at the time as well.

Anyone lobbying or doing public relations on behalf of foreign governments is required to register as a foreign agent in compliance with the Foreign Agents Registration Act. The Aug. 17 filings include short-form registration statements for six Podesta Group employees and an amendment to the firm's registration statement that includes a list of political contributions made by relevant employees throughout 2013.

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

I have read elsewhere that this is normally what happens, on all sides of the aisle.

You lobby for a foreign government without filing, and then years later if you get caught, you say my bad and fill out retroactive paperwork saying you were lobbying for foreign governments and that you just forgot to fill out the paperwork.

One good thing from Mueller investigation would be if all of these laws started to be enforced the way they were intended on all sides.

Tell Me if you can tell the difference?

Podesta Group and Mercury are POLITICAL LOBBYIST ORGANIZATION...It is WHAT THEY DO.
No one is ever unaware that they are engaged on behalf of a client.
They do not work for the US Government at the same time.

General Michael Flynn was the Campaign Chief Security Policy Advisor and the Whitehouse National Security Advisor.

Paul Manafort was Chief Campaign Manager for Donald Trump.
Rick Gates was Deputy Campaign Manager and led the Inauguration planning.


* By your logic...Podesta Group (A Lobbying Firm) not telling the government that their client is Turkey
Is exactly the same as
The National Security Advisor or Trumps Chief Campaign Manager SECRETLY WORKING FOR A FORIEGN GOVERNMENT while lying to their employer (The US Government).

By your logic...Espionage against the USA is legal. If Trump got checks from Putin himself once a week, you would be OK with it. Trump just forgot to register.

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: Grambler

So we are splitting hairs then.

Is the BBC the UK government?
Was the spy currently employed by the government?

Did Donald Trump ask the Russians to hack hillary’s Emails?

Simply put his one statement was borderline treason. He got himself into this mess and continues to make it worse. You think they would be looking to pardon people if there wasn’t proof of a crime?!?

No we are not splitting haors.

First, the BBC is funded by the bortish state. RT had to register as foreign propagandists, so why not BBC?

Asking if the spy is currently employed by the government. OK well if thats the standard, note the OP references a FORMER russian GRU member. OS under your interpretation, this is fine so long as he is not a current state employee.

And it seems that steele got his info from at least some CURRENT kremlin officials, so why wouldnt this be a crime?

As far as Trump statement; this has been rehashed a thousand times.

He did not ask russia to hack the dnc. It had been said for months that hillarys server (which is different than the dnc and podesta emails) was comprised.

Hillarys team was supposed to hand over emails, but supposedly accidentally destroyed them, but assured us they were all about yoga.

Trump joked that if Russia had those lost emails, they should release them. It was a joke, Russia never did release these yoga emails. The fact that you think this might be treasonous is nonsensical to me.

Maybe he was discussing pardoning people so they didnt have to go through the process of defending themselves from charges that he thought were false or drummed up?

I dont know, by the same token, if the FBI wasnt guilty of anything, why have they stonewalled giving congress requested documents to congress?