The March for Our Guilt

originally posted by: amazing
I thought it was a good idea. Let the kids Vent. Let's have a discussion about Gun Violence and School Shootings.

Better this than Apathetic Teens that sit home and play video games all day with no social lives.

I don't feel guilty. LOL No one I know had their guns taken.

Virtue Signaling is a weird term. We all virtue signal all the time unless we live in a cave by ourselves.

Yes and no. This isn't a grassroots movement. It's presented this way but it seems to be very well centrally organized and funded. For example, Everytown for Gun Safety is involved, as are major Democratic organizations.

Theres a difference in degree and intent though. What you are describing isn't inherently "virtue signaling." That term implies grand standing, jumping on bandwagons to appear virtous, being a political sycophant, etc. It doesn't mean legitimate political activism, debate, and social media posts.

Obviously it can be hard to always tell, but it's easier if it's over the top or you know the person in question.
a reply to: amazing

a reply to: ketsuko

Joan of Arc. Really?

Sounds to me like they're setting her up to become some form of martyr to the cause. Should anything happen to her, it'll be easier, I suppose, to make her an emblem of some sort...

I hope not. I hope it's over the top hyperbole.

Joan of Arc? Just when you think you've heard/seen it all.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: amazing
I thought it was a good idea. Let the kids Vent. Let's have a discussion about Gun Violence and School Shootings.

Better this than Apathetic Teens that sit home and play video games all day with no social lives.

I don't feel guilty. LOL No one I know had their guns taken.

Virtue Signaling is a weird term. We all virtue signal all the time unless we live in a cave by ourselves.

Yes and no. This isn't a grassroots movement. It's presented this way but it seems to be very well centrally organized and funded. For example, Everytown for Gun Safety is involved, as are major Democratic organizations.

The march for gun control last weekend definitely wasn't grassroots and kids were only a small percentage of the crowd. It was actually up to 90% adults, and I don't mean 19 and 20 year olds. The average age of the adults sampled was just under 49. It was just a bunch of opportunistic assholes who have wanted gun control for years and couldn't let an opportunity to exploit a tragedy like Parkland pass them by.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: amazing

I think you misunderstand.

Expression is not virtue signalling. Virtue signalling is the use of expression to exploit perceptions of those witness to it. Its dishonest in that its only purpose is to claim territory in the identity of the politics its user wants to align with.

So for example, proclaiming the the world that you voted for Hillary Clinton or Trump. Because why else would you need to say that, except to exploit the perceptions of those you say it to.

Or to say that you believe in the second amendment. Why would you say that out loud or type it unless you wanted to exploit the perceptiosn of those that witness your saying it or writing it or typing it.

You see what I'm saying? I think I know what you're saying, but where do you draw the line. Unless you shut up and say nothing to no one. You're Virtue signaling.

a reply to: face23785

Ignore the man behind the curtain!!

The problem with all of this IMO is that people are asking the wrong questions...

They keep asking "how?" which focuses the conversation on guns instead of "why?"

So WHY are these kids doing these things? That's what needs to be addressed.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: face23785

Ignore the man behind the curtain!!

Especially the broke man who needs some more cash in his coffers!

DNC in deep debt

Personally I have no doubt that this is all about fund raising. If the Dems cared so much about gun violence they would have done something about it a long time ago, and they would have done it when they had the power to do so. They did not. They didn't care then, and I don't believe for a second that they care now.

I actually feel sorry for both "Joan of Arc" and this anorectic looking David Hogg. They are now "stars" and very much in the spotlight, but these poster "kids" will both be tossed aside by the Dems and the DNC once they have served their purpose and brought in the cash. And from what I have seen of them, I'm not sure any of the two have the charisma or talent needed to create a permanent space for themselves on the public or political arena.

They will be forgotten soon enough. The public barely have the memory and attention span of goldfish, so that is what people do, they forget and move on to the next hot thingy. I think both "Joan of Arc" and the anorectic guy are in for a rough time a little longer down the road when the Dems are done using them and people have moved on.

originally posted by: wills120

The problem with all of this IMO is that people are asking the wrong questions...

They keep asking "how?" which focuses the conversation on guns instead of "why?"

So WHY are these kids doing these things? That's what needs to be addressed.

Amen. We're not looking at everything.

It seems like Liberals are unwilling to look at mental health issues and conservatives are unwilling to look at anything Gun related.

a reply to: wills120

Exactly!!


Concentrating on that, though, won't get the flashy headlines on the ticker at the bottom of the screen. Or however many followers on twitter, too, I suppose.

You are spot on!

originally posted by: wills120

The problem with all of this IMO is that people are asking the wrong questions...

They keep asking "how?" which focuses the conversation on guns instead of "why?"

So WHY are these kids doing these things? That's what needs to be addressed.

The motives of school shooters are myriad, but most of it centers around revenge for bullying and fame-seeking.

originally posted by: wills120

The problem with all of this IMO is that people are asking the wrong questions...

They keep asking "how?" which focuses the conversation on guns instead of "why?"

So WHY are these kids doing these things? That's what needs to be addressed.

That's not really a problem for a lot of them, because for some "why" isn't the agenda. The agenda is guns, so that's where they want the focus. Actually solving the problem without getting any more gun control laws out of it would be a waste of time to them.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: wills120

The problem with all of this IMO is that people are asking the wrong questions...

They keep asking "how?" which focuses the conversation on guns instead of "why?"

So WHY are these kids doing these things? That's what needs to be addressed.

The motives of school shooters are myriad, but most of it centers around revenge for bullying and fame-seeking.

Thank you media for continually inspiring more of them.

Yes for some. My roommate is quite open about that fact, but at least he's honest. a reply to: face23785

Well I agree it's not grassroots. But the age composition doesn't have to be mostly teens to be legit, as adults can march for child safety or gun issues. Most of my contacts marching are sincere, but I think the background organizers are definitely capitalizing on this politically. It turns out my roommate's firm consulted with the organizers for the marches. It pays to have insiders in all these orgs. I was offered a job at one point for Everytown for gun safety. I have a lot of friends and contacts across the orgs oft cited in conspiracies, from Open Society Foundation to the UN.

The worst thing is realizing most of these people are also *smart* useful idiots, or are savvy enough to never let on they know things for career reasons. I hate the latter more, and I know a lot of them.

A girl I drink with used to work for Soros' OSF, and is the only one of them that admits OSF buses in protestors and agitators all over the place, including many of these marches.

Ironically, many conservatives seem to believe there aren't aware liberals on these topics.
a reply to: face23785

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You can certainly have adults who are sincere, I'm sure many of them are. My issue with it is the media was presenting it like it was mostly kids who were coming out and bitching at us adults for not doing anything. Pretty much every news story I saw on it started with "hundreds of thousands of kids turned out to protest..." It wasn't.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: amazing

I think you misunderstand.

Expression is not virtue signalling. Virtue signalling is the use of expression to exploit perceptions of those witness to it. Its dishonest in that its only purpose is to claim territory in the identity of the politics its user wants to align with.

So for example, proclaiming the the world that you voted for Hillary Clinton or Trump. Because why else would you need to say that, except to exploit the perceptions of those you say it to.

Are we going to do a checklist of examples here? Ok...

on the above, it sounds like it could be an exuberant supporter campaigning on behalf of their candidate. No real virtue there...just fanaticism.

Or to say that you believe in the second amendment. Why would you say that out loud or type it unless you wanted to exploit the perceptiosn of those that witness your saying it or writing it or typing it.

Would I do that? No. Not without it being relevant to whatever is happening at the moment. Like in a discussion where its the topic...I can imagine that it would be a relevant statement in such a situation.

You see what I'm saying? I think I know what you're saying, but where do you draw the line. Unless you shut up and say nothing to no one. You're Virtue signaling.

Virtue signalling shouldn't be hard to spot. Its not really a very subtle concept. SOme examples:

- people horseshoeing an opinion into a place where it doesn't belong (throwing in 2nd amendment support when the subject is knife sharpening, for example)
- people creating new and innovative ways to criticise you for being inconsiderate
- people showing support for something only after the group stares at them in awkward silence for a moment, waiting for said support

The most notorious, however, are people demanding you say specific things and claim specific things in order to not be hassled and bullied. A good example is supporting a persons right to sexual freedom while still not wanting to be bogged down with fumbling for pronouns. Your support means nothing without the virtue signal ascribed to pronoun usage.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

" centers around revenge for bullying and fame-seeking. "

A Profound Thought there ,Imagine If Federal Agencies would actually Except that Proven Reality and Act on it . Pre-Crime Detection is the Wave of the Future According to Philip K. Dick’s Minority Report Story . Gee , I Feel Safer All of asudden with that Assurance . Danke Mein Herr.....

a reply to: LesMisanthrope


They can do all the screaming and shouting they want, but the second amendment will never be repealed. There are simply millions of people who will oppose it. I am wondering how many of those protesting kids have even bothered to read any part of our constitution.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

Then what, or whom, have the blood on their hands? According to the FBI’s School Shooter Reference Guide, 75% of school shooters felt bullied, persecuted, or threatened by others

- LesMis

This is the singular argument I have made from day 1 regarding the root cause of the shooting. The kid was bullied and was an outcast as a result of his inability to socially habituate. Yes, he was a weird kid and kids being kids they will make fun of and harass him. It's what kids do. That doesn't make it right but it is what it is. I would love to hear someone on the mainstream platform reference the fact he was bullied and harassed. I wonder how many of the misled teens would recognize this within themselves and realize how they are being used for a false narrative?

There were multiple failure points that could have prevented this massacre. And none of them have anything to do with guns.