Alton Sterling - No charges against LEOs, the right call IMO

a reply to: XAnarchistX

They destroyed all the video evidence?

Where do you suppose the videos are coming from then?

"The owner of the store where the shooting occurred said that Sterling had started carrying a gun a few days prior to the event as other CD vendors had been robbed recently. He also said that Sterling was "not the one causing trouble" during the situation that led to the police being called. At the time of his death, Sterling was 37 years old."

Who do you suppose the 911 call was about when the description was a black guy with a red shirt that had a gun in his pocket and was selling CDs and threatened the 911 caller by pulling the gun out and brandishing it at the caller?

a reply to: Shamrock6

Are you saying you know its the shop owner (the one who recorded the video) who made the call? Do you have proof of that assertion?

a reply to: Wayfarer

I think the most relevant question is:

Who do you suppose the 911 call was about when the description was a black guy with a red shirt that had a gun in his pocket and was selling CDs and threatened the 911 caller by pulling the gun out and brandishing it at the caller?

a reply to: Wayfarer

I have zero idea how if you read what I said you can draw that conclusion and demand I support it.

Quoting a post by another member and then posting a rebuttal of the quoted material does not put me in the position of having to defend something you've made up.

How about we address the 1000lb gorilla in the room?

That the AA community has a gun, drug, violence, attitude and employment problem?

Is it too racist?

I'm getting sick of it.

No wonder he was shot, who wants to die by the hands of someone who doesn't care about themselves or others?

I know I don't feel safe in the hood, double with my woman present.

I can't even trust her to be safe running to the gas station at night.

Eff these type of people. They have no place in society.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Wayfarer

I have zero idea how if you read what I said you can draw that conclusion and demand I support it.

Quoting a post by another member and then posting a rebuttal of the quoted material does not put me in the position of having to defend something you've made up.

It sounded like a rhetorical question. Were you asking it in earnest?

a reply to: Wayfarer

So you asked me a question that had nothing to do with what I said because you think what I said was a rhetorical question?

Okay.

a reply to: JBurns

i've had between 25 and 30 interactions with police in my life. not once did i ever get tased, beaten, shot, or cursed at.

i'm polite. i don't argue with the police. the time to plead my case is in court before a judge.

the worst i ever got from police was a speeding ticket on christmas eve. i was doing 35 in a 30.

my six year old son was with me the day i got the speeding ticket. after the interaction i said to my son, "he is only doing his job." we drove away back to home to celebrate the holiday. i taught my son how to interact with the police. and that they are people too. and that the time to argue is in court.

police have a tough and thankless job.
people talk garbage about police..... until they need the help from one.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Wayfarer

So you asked me a question that had nothing to do with what I said because you think what I said was a rhetorical question?

Okay.

I don't know what this is hard for you to grasp.

It was literally directly to do with what you said. Either you didn't know (and were asking earnestly - something I seriously doubt), or you were asking a rhetorical question because you believe the guy who recorded the video was the same person who called 911.

originally posted by: subfab
a reply to: JBurns

i've had between 25 and 30 interactions with police in my life. not once did i ever get tased, beaten, shot, or cursed at.

i'm polite. i don't argue with the police. the time to plead my case is in court before a judge.

the worst i ever got from police was a speeding ticket on christmas eve. i was doing 35 in a 30.

my six year old son was with me the day i got the speeding ticket. after the interaction i said to my son, "he is only doing his job." we drove away back to home to celebrate the holiday. i taught my son how to interact with the police. and that they are people too. and that the time to argue is in court.

police have a tough and thankless job.
people talk garbage about police..... until they need the help from one.

Are you a white male, praytell?

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: subfab
a reply to: JBurns

i've had between 25 and 30 interactions with police in my life. not once did i ever get tased, beaten, shot, or cursed at.

i'm polite. i don't argue with the police. the time to plead my case is in court before a judge.

the worst i ever got from police was a speeding ticket on christmas eve. i was doing 35 in a 30.

my six year old son was with me the day i got the speeding ticket. after the interaction i said to my son, "he is only doing his job." we drove away back to home to celebrate the holiday. i taught my son how to interact with the police. and that they are people too. and that the time to argue is in court.

police have a tough and thankless job.
people talk garbage about police..... until they need the help from one.

Are you a white male, praytell?

no.
i'm mexican

a reply to: Wayfarer

It's hard for me to grasp because your initial comment is so thoroughly and completely irrelevant to the comment you're replying to that I don't know how you could possibly think they're relevant.

At no point did I ever make a claim as to who called 911. At no point did I claim it was the shop owner. At no point did I claim to know that it's the shop owner, or anybody else.

Therefore, the question "are you saying you know it's the shop owner" is so wildly off base that it's hard to grasp where it's even coming from, let alone the expectation that I provide proof of it.

a reply to: Shamrock6

I'm not familiar with Sterlings rap sheet.

However LA law does allow fellons to possess a firearm after 10 from completion of sentencing.

We might want to look into this.

a reply to: grey580

I believe, though I may be reading it incorrectly, that sex crimes are in the prohibited category regardless.

This article explains the different laws that pertain to Louisiana allowing some felons to possess firearms. That article will send you to this page, that outlines who can and can't possess. That statute will send you to this one to look at the list of criminal convictions they won't allow possession for.

It's a whole mess to sort through because the law is a bit all over the place, but as near as I can tell he was convicted of a sex crime against a juvenile, and that falls into the category of non-restoration felons.

a reply to: Shamrock6

OK. I looked into it briefly but it was too many links and I was too busy to go further.

Thanks.

And now I've seen both videos of the shooting. I'm wondering how the 2 officers on top of this guy could not control the situation. And have to resort to shooting a semi restrained man.

a reply to: grey580


Just curious here, but even *if* he was in possession of the firearm legally (which is highly debatable), that still doesn't give you the right to threaten someone with said firearm. It doesn't give you the right to violently resist arrest. And it certainly doesn't give you the right to retrieve said weapon during an attempt to violently resist arrest.

1) Someone made the initial 911 call stating Mr. Sterling had threatened them with a firearm. I contend that the caller couldn't have possibly known about the firearm unless Mr. Sterling was indeed threatening him or otherwise displaying the firearm. Remember, police were DISPATCHED (sent) to the location.

2) Despite the 911 call, Mr. Sterling did not have to become violent and resist LE efforts to detain him and investigate the 911 call. He never gave them that chance, because he immediately became uncooperative and engaged in a physical altercation against the officers to resist arrest

3) The officers tried using verbal commands, deploying less-lethal measures (the Taser) and then finally physical force to get this combative subject under control. They were unable to continue their lawful duties and carry out the investigation of the 911 caller's report until Mr. Sterling was properly detained/secured.

4) Once on the ground, it became apparent to officers that Mr. Sterling was reaching in his pocket. Mr. Sterling was a big guy, and it is very difficult to impede someone's movements especially in such a small window of time. Regardless, at the point the officers drew their weapons and ordered him not to reach for the weapon, simply not reaching for the weapon and complying immediately would've ended the confrontation without any further violence against officers (or any further degree of lawful/defensive force against Mr. Sterling). Mr. Sterling did not choose this course of action, and instead continued to violently resist detention (and arrest at this point) by employing unlawful deadly force against officers

5) At the conclusion of the shooting, one officers secures the subject/scene by removing the firearm from his pocket. The same pocket he was attempting to reach in during the altercation on the ground

At ANY POINT prior to the moment he was shot by officers Mr. Sterling could've ended the confrontation. The outcome was 100% on him, as simply complying with lawful orders is all it would've taken to avoid the conflict. Despite the violence and resisting arrest (and threat), Mr. Sterling would've been facing relatively minor charges up until the point he tried to pull the firearm on officers. That is an entirely different ball game and forced those officers into a position where they had to use lethal force to protect their own lives and the lives of bystanders

a reply to: Shamrock6

Yup it appears to be a good shoot to me.

a reply to: JBurns

I wouldn’t consider a dispatcher’s report of a weapon AT ALL enough to justify a shooting. Nor do I think the attempted tazer matters..


I think the officers knew about the gun before shooting. The way the officer INSTANTLY goes straight for his pocket and removes it . Leads me to believe he knew it was there

So they were even willing to get physical before firing even though they knew he had a gun.. seems like they really tried not to shoot him..


The only time I have anissue is when the cops don’t even confirm there is a weapon.

a reply to: JBurns

Unfortunately the video is not clear as to whether or not he was actually reaching for a weapon. We only hear the officer yell, "he has a gun". I can see that one officer has his left arm pinned. His right are may be free. I'm not sure.

I'm still of the opinion that this could of been handled without a shooting.

Now, if Alton had pulled the weapon at the start of the confrontation. I'd agree that all bets are off. But after watching this video. I'm not so sure his death was necessary.

a reply to: JBurns

I think our problem comes from 2 things.

1) Officers are trained to take zero chances. Even if it means you kill an innocent..

2) the law is such that any prosecutor attempting to charge a cop with a killing must prove the officer DID NOT FEEL threatened in the instant he fired.

Something that is basically impossible to do..


A sorta recent scotus decision states that the officer cannot be judged by 20/20 hindsight..

So if he shoots some little old lady because “he thought she was armed”. It’s legal weather she is armed or not.