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NY Times wilfully ignorant

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posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 02:18 PM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: DogStarIn1066

If you are labeling people gun nuts you probably didn't even serve sonny.


Not necessarily. There are people in the military who don't understand gun culture or are even heavily in favor of gun control.


Gun culture? I have been hunting since I was a kid, served in the army, and have quite a few furearms. I have a shooting range on my property.

I never considered it a culture. More like I have a basketball hoop in my driveway for fun. Am I a basketball culture guy?

I have a Weber kettle for cooking. Am I a Weber kettle culture guy?I

Lighten up.

I do not worship guns, so I guess I can't be in the gun culture club, if that is what you mean.



This is precisely what I was talking about. You have guns, but you consider people who are more into them than you are to be "gun nuts" and "worshiping guns". That's the culture I'm saying you don't dig, and there are people in the military like you, and that's fine. You shouldn't denigrate them just because they think different than you though.


Fair enough.

Going for that walk.

And thanks for having an honest discussion

I think I pushed to hard today and need to work on my politeness skills.

Once again, Thanks for the discussion, and sorry if I came across as a jerk.




posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 02:21 PM
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originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: DogStarIn1066

No way dude, your opinion is just as important as everyone elses.

That's all this is here. Opinions.

I was just yankin your chain, stick around, echo chambers are boring when we all agree.

It would be like....

Yep,yep,yep,yep,yeah,yes,yep,yep,totally,yep,uhuh,yep,si,totally,yep

Thanks.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: DogStarIn1066

If you are labeling people gun nuts you probably didn't even serve sonny.


Not necessarily. There are people in the military who don't understand gun culture or are even heavily in favor of gun control.


Gun culture? I have been hunting since I was a kid, served in the army, and have quite a few furearms. I have a shooting range on my property.

I never considered it a culture. More like I have a basketball hoop in my driveway for fun. Am I a basketball culture guy?

I have a Weber kettle for cooking. Am I a Weber kettle culture guy?I

Lighten up.

I do not worship guns, so I guess I can't be in the gun culture club, if that is what you mean.



This is precisely what I was talking about. You have guns, but you consider people who are more into them than you are to be "gun nuts" and "worshiping guns". That's the culture I'm saying you don't dig, and there are people in the military like you, and that's fine. You shouldn't denigrate them just because they think different than you though.


Fair enough.

Going for that walk.

And thanks for having an honest discussion

I think I pushed to hard today and need to work on my politeness skills.

Once again, Thanks for the discussion, and sorry if I came across as a jerk.


I fail to be cordial at times as well. The subject can get heated. Don't sweat it. A walk sounds nice, unfortunately it's cold and rainy here today.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 02:32 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: network dude


But the big picture is at this point in the discussion, there just is no excuse for calling a semi-automatic weapon an 'assault weapon'. there is enough information available, people have explained this over and over again. It's pushing an agenda at best, being stupid like a sack of hammers, at worst.


Seems like you should be angry at the people who originally labeled guns like the AR an "assault weapon". Namely the gun companies who used it as a marketing ploy to sell more of them to wannabe soldiers.

But it's the democrats. Or something like that.


Could you link me to where that happened? I know the AR in AR-15 stands for Armalite, as they are the original manufacturer of the designated Rifle. I don't know where Assault Rifle came from, other than the M-16, AK-47, M 249, M105 howitzer, or other military weapons. Another term I hear is Military Grade. That is also made up. But if you have the goods to school me, I'll consider myself schooled.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: DogStarIn1066

No way dude, your opinion is just as important as everyone elses.

That's all this is here. Opinions.

I was just yankin your chain, stick around, echo chambers are boring when we all agree.

It would be like....

Yep,yep,yep,yep,yeah,yes,yep,yep,totally,yep,uhuh,yep,si,totally,yep


Agreed.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
That's a straw man, obviously. Again, the whole point is to have some capacity to fight back or defend yourself in the case of tyranny. It's not "bombing buildings and shooting up schools.

At the point tyranny comes, your vote and voice may be gone. Or set you up to be attacked, at which point if you don't have a weapon then you are done.


More nonsense.

Ever notice how police standoffs always end?

Imagine the 82nd airborne outside your house.

You cannot fight the federal government with violence.

You will lose.

So use the tools that civilisation has endowed you with.


the 82nd made up of volunteers, you really think they are going to lead attacks against family, friends, neighbors etc?
Curious why you think they will just march lock step to killing citizens defending their rights as outlined in the constitution?


I was in the 82nd for 5 years total.

If some nut was holed up in a house with a bunch of guns we would have been more then happy to take him out, especially if he was ranting about overthrowing the government, and the constitution.

Luckily, they have local cops and mental health worker to handle the light work.

Some Rambo with an AR is not worth the military's time.



then you must have served with people way different than I have, we knew the law and understood active duty deployed against US civilians is not something we should ever be ok with... IE an unlawful order.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: DogStarIn1066

Is the government likely to utilize nukes, tanks, or planes against its citizenry? Do you believe that if that were to occur another power wouldn't step in and arm the general populace and provide support?

Also as has been said by several people in this thread, it takes people to make things work. This is true for all sectors, not just military. A few of dozen people who understand the vulnerabilities present in the power grid, fuel transportation, water treatment and transport, and other "industrial" technologies could help augment any group fighting a tyrannical government in this country. The main reason most of them don't do anything about it now, they're not in a position where their government has declared war upon them, and quite frankly the pay is better for finding and fixing problems than the other way around.

Wars are not only fought utilizing overt weapons these days, just something to consider.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: network dude


But the big picture is at this point in the discussion, there just is no excuse for calling a semi-automatic weapon an 'assault weapon'. there is enough information available, people have explained this over and over again. It's pushing an agenda at best, being stupid like a sack of hammers, at worst.


Seems like you should be angry at the people who originally labeled guns like the AR an "assault weapon". Namely the gun companies who used it as a marketing ploy to sell more of them to wannabe soldiers.

But it's the democrats. Or something like that.


Could you link me to where that happened? I know the AR in AR-15 stands for Armalite, as they are the original manufacturer of the designated Rifle. I don't know where Assault Rifle came from, other than the M-16, AK-47, M 249, M105 howitzer, or other military weapons. Another term I hear is Military Grade. That is also made up. But if you have the goods to school me, I'll consider myself schooled.

I believe it came from the WWII German term Sturmgewehr. The word translates as assault rifle.
It was a weapon designed around a less powerful round than battle rifles of the time used.... in order to make it more controllable when used in full automatic fire.
Yes... it was a selective fire weapon.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: butcherguy

Ah, so a weapon capable of full auto, used in the military for "assaults" and such. Thanks. I had heard of that weapon before, but didn't know it's translation, so thanks for the knowledge.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 03:07 PM
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The AR-15 is not an assault rifle. It fails the selective fire requirements, however, a grunt could use the AR-15 just as effectively as he could use the M16a4.

'Assault rifle' is a stupid misnomer to get hung up over. The m16 was designed to kill, the AR-15 is a copy of that weapon.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 03:25 PM
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originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: introvert

Multiple people, including myself have pointed that out.

Typically when you see something that has (2018, colorized), it's a good hint that it's a joke


Sorry if it confused folks, my humor misses people a lot of the time I guess


This is ATS. You have to be careful with such things because many people will believe what they are told or what they see if it fits their confirmation bias.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied

The AR-15 is not an assault rifle. It fails the selective fire requirements, however, a grunt could use the AR-15 just as effectively as he could use the M16a4.

'Assault rifle' is a stupid misnomer to get hung up over. The m16 was designed to kill, the AR-15 is a copy of that weapon.


Just for clarification, every gun ever, was designed to kill. All of them. As are archery sets, cannons, and large swords.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 03:48 PM
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originally posted by: vinifalou
At this point I'm pretty sure there's an agenda to disarm the citizens.

And seeing who is pushing this agenda is what's making me fear for my future.


You don't even have to be a yank to see this agenda - it's as plain as day. Hoggboy being the latest POS to be rolled out in an attempt to sh!t all over the Constitution because the deep state wants 1984 superbad.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 03:50 PM
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Orwell noted that once the language is corrupted, what follows naturally is that thinking becomes corrupted. Emotion takes precedence over reason, and rational processes are ridiculed.

Catch phrases such as assault weapon are useful propaganda tools. They have demonized an image of a gun, which is nutz, and NYT is first in line to do it. When everything the American people believe is false, we can judge the efficiency of our misinformation efforts.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 03:54 PM
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originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied

The AR-15 is not an assault rifle. It fails the selective fire requirements, however, a grunt could use the AR-15 just as effectively as he could use the M16a4.

'Assault rifle' is a stupid misnomer to get hung up over. The m16 was designed to kill, the AR-15 is a copy of that weapon.


Agree that it is a misnomer. It would be interesting to know when the term was ever first used by the media? I wonder if it was pre or post Rambo?



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 04:34 PM
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originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: introvert

What's rather disturbing I'd the op ed is in favor of completely repealing the 2nd. Also incorporating varying aspects of the arguments



These kids will outlive us. Another amendment is coming, it is their right to do so, and I think the future will portray us as ignorant barbarians for allowing and defending school shooting for our selfish desire to own weapons of death.

Dead childern.

Defend it.


Or will they be the generation to wilfully hand over their rights?

If dead kids are truly your concern, guns are not a good argument for you to stand on. Cars, phones and food are way ahead in that aspect.

Defend that.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: introvert

Multiple people, including myself have pointed that out.

Typically when you see something that has (2018, colorized), it's a good hint that it's a joke


Sorry if it confused folks, my humor misses people a lot of the time I guess


This is ATS. You have to be careful with such things because many people will believe what they are told or what they see if it fits their confirmation bias.


Or they just didn't recognize Britney Spears. Confirming your own bias there, well done.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 06:22 PM
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originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied

The AR-15 is not an assault rifle. It fails the selective fire requirements, however, a grunt could use the AR-15 just as effectively as he could use the M16a4.

'Assault rifle' is a stupid misnomer to get hung up over. The m16 was designed to kill, the AR-15 is a copy of that weapon.


Agree that it is a misnomer. It would be interesting to know when the term was ever first used by the media? I wonder if it was pre or post Rambo?


According to Wikipedia, it has been attributed to Hitler, or at least the Nazis. No wonder the gun control folks love the term.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 08:48 PM
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originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
That's a straw man, obviously. Again, the whole point is to have some capacity to fight back or defend yourself in the case of tyranny. It's not "bombing buildings and shooting up schools.

At the point tyranny comes, your vote and voice may be gone. Or set you up to be attacked, at which point if you don't have a weapon then you are done.


More nonsense.

Ever notice how police standoffs always end?

Imagine the 82nd airborne outside your house.

You cannot fight the federal government with violence.

You will lose.

So use the tools that civilisation has endowed you with.


All the insurgents the us government has fought in the last 50 years would disagree with you.

To have a police state you need boots on the ground and the idea that every citizen could possibly have a weapon prevents that. There’s a reason taking guns is the first thing that happens in a dictatorship.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 11:45 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t


I really don't even want to totally ban assault rifles anyways.

Why not?


They look cool as # and are fun to shoot for target practice.

Fun to shoot? Full auto's are fun to shoot too. Albeit, a little terrifying at first.


I just want more comprehensive background checks on purchases, possibly a national database tracking serial numbers, and mandatory certification classes for gun training and storage for all buyers of guns that has to be maintained and updated. Is this going to stop all gun crime? Nope, but at least its a start instead of pretending like all these shootings are just the sacrifice that is necessary to have a gun culture.


So you admit you're just a "do something!" person. Doesn't matter if it's effective, just make a change.

The gun culture has little if anything to do with mass murder (other than simply being the most convenient method to carry out such a thing). The underlying causes need to be cured. We are a sick society. These people will act out whether it's easy to get a gun or not, in most cases these people have obtained their weapons illegally anyway. More hoops is unlikely to make a dent in this problem.




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