NY Times wilfully ignorant

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Krazysh0t

My Mossberg 500 is modable. I have a bright as # light on it. Ban those too?

If you are going to use a firearm for defense, why the heck are you putting a light on it?

Yeah, you see that a lot in Ranger gear.

By the way, I have 2 500's, and they are terrific.

Where I live, sometimes it's night.

Ok, fair enough.

Talk to anyone who has been in combat about putting a light (hey shoot over here) on their weapon.

But it was a funny response.

I do know that coin hunters and hog hunters use lights.

However not for defense, unless you are shooting at unarmed people.

Yeah if you intend to walk around with it on the entire time, you'd have a point. I don't. Talk to anyone that's taken a home defense tactical course.

Well, you are talking to a combat veteran who jumped out of pkanes, got through ranger school and and is still breathing.

What are your questions?

I don't have any. From your training you should know that a light isn't always a bad thing, it just depends how you use it. If you use it carelessly you can give away your position, that's of course true. That doesn't mean it's useless. I have it in case I'm in a situation where I need a light so I can keep both hands on the weapon and not have to hold a flashlight. Alternatively, I have a head lamp that I could use. I mostly use it for work around the house so I can have both hands free, but at night it's hanging on my bedpost. Depending on the situation, it may or may not be necessary or tactically wise to use it. There are a lot of potential scenarios. The use of blanket rules like you should never have a light on your gun is simple-minded. Real life tactical situations are more dynamic. Why am I having to tell you this with your credentials?

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: DogStarIn1066

You were in 5 years and think the army would attack on our soil?

Jesus dude

The military are our friends, neighbors and family.

Your psycho notion is not the norm for military people.

I did not say that. Please read again. I said we would have been happy to take a gun nut out, not that we would.

I also said I was in the 82nd for 5years total, two different postings over a 15 year career.

Pay attention sonny.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Krazysh0t

My Mossberg 500 is modable. I have a bright as # light on it. Ban those too?

If you are going to use a firearm for defense, why the heck are you putting a light on it?

Yeah, you see that a lot in Ranger gear.

By the way, I have 2 500's, and they are terrific.

Where I live, sometimes it's night.

Ok, fair enough.

Talk to anyone who has been in combat about putting a light (hey shoot over here) on their weapon.

But it was a funny response.

I do know that coin hunters and hog hunters use lights.

However not for defense, unless you are shooting at unarmed people.

Yeah if you intend to walk around with it on the entire time, you'd have a point. I don't. Talk to anyone that's taken a home defense tactical course.

Well, you are talking to a combat veteran who jumped out of pkanes, got through ranger school and and is still breathing.

What are your questions?

I don't have any. From your training you should know that a light isn't always a bad thing, it just depends how you use it. If you use it carelessly you can give away your position, that's of course true. That doesn't mean it's useless. I have it in case I'm in a situation where I need a light so I can keep both hands on the weapon and not have to hold a flashlight. Alternatively, I have a head lamp that I could use. I mostly use it for work around the house so I can have both hands free, but at night it's hanging on my bedpost. Depending on the situation, it may or may not be necessary or tactically wise to use it. There are a lot of potential scenarios. The use of blanket rules like you should never have a light on your gun is simple-minded. Real life tactical situations are more dynamic. Why am I having to tell you this with your credentials?

Fair enough.

I do agree that a light would be nice for some situations.

I would never us it in combat, and that was my point.

However, you bring up good points.

a reply to: DogStarIn1066

If you are labeling people gun nuts you probably didn't even serve sonny.

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Krazysh0t

My Mossberg 500 is modable. I have a bright as # light on it. Ban those too?

If you are going to use a firearm for defense, why the heck are you putting a light on it?

Yeah, you see that a lot in Ranger gear.

By the way, I have 2 500's, and they are terrific.

Where I live, sometimes it's night.

Ok, fair enough.

Talk to anyone who has been in combat about putting a light (hey shoot over here) on their weapon.

But it was a funny response.

I do know that coin hunters and hog hunters use lights.

However not for defense, unless you are shooting at unarmed people.

Yeah if you intend to walk around with it on the entire time, you'd have a point. I don't. Talk to anyone that's taken a home defense tactical course.

Well, you are talking to a combat veteran who jumped out of pkanes, got through ranger school and and is still breathing.

What are your questions?

I don't have any. From your training you should know that a light isn't always a bad thing, it just depends how you use it. If you use it carelessly you can give away your position, that's of course true. That doesn't mean it's useless. I have it in case I'm in a situation where I need a light so I can keep both hands on the weapon and not have to hold a flashlight. Alternatively, I have a head lamp that I could use. I mostly use it for work around the house so I can have both hands free, but at night it's hanging on my bedpost. Depending on the situation, it may or may not be necessary or tactically wise to use it. There are a lot of potential scenarios. The use of blanket rules like you should never have a light on your gun is simple-minded. Real life tactical situations are more dynamic. Why am I having to tell you this with your credentials?

Fair enough.

I do agree that a light would be nice for some situations.

I would never us it in combat, and that was my point.

However, you bring up good points.

I'm not going to be using it in combat. Combat is totally different than home defense. Or school defense for that matter.

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: DogStarIn1066

If you are labeling people gun nuts you probably didn't even serve sonny.

Not necessarily. There are people in the military who don't understand gun culture or are even heavily in favor of gun control.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Krazysh0t

My Mossberg 500 is modable. I have a bright as # light on it. Ban those too?

If you are going to use a firearm for defense, why the heck are you putting a light on it?

Yeah, you see that a lot in Ranger gear.

By the way, I have 2 500's, and they are terrific.

Where I live, sometimes it's night.

Ok, fair enough.

Talk to anyone who has been in combat about putting a light (hey shoot over here) on their weapon.

But it was a funny response.

I do know that coin hunters and hog hunters use lights.

However not for defense, unless you are shooting at unarmed people.

Yeah if you intend to walk around with it on the entire time, you'd have a point. I don't. Talk to anyone that's taken a home defense tactical course.

Well, you are talking to a combat veteran who jumped out of pkanes, got through ranger school and and is still breathing.

What are your questions?

I don't have any. From your training you should know that a light isn't always a bad thing, it just depends how you use it. If you use it carelessly you can give away your position, that's of course true. That doesn't mean it's useless. I have it in case I'm in a situation where I need a light so I can keep both hands on the weapon and not have to hold a flashlight. Alternatively, I have a head lamp that I could use. I mostly use it for work around the house so I can have both hands free, but at night it's hanging on my bedpost. Depending on the situation, it may or may not be necessary or tactically wise to use it. There are a lot of potential scenarios. The use of blanket rules like you should never have a light on your gun is simple-minded. Real life tactical situations are more dynamic. Why am I having to tell you this with your credentials?

Fair enough.

I do agree that a light would be nice for some situations.

I would never us it in combat, and that was my point.

However, you bring up good points.

I'm not going to be using it in combat. Combat is totally different than home defense. Or school defense for that matter.

Agree.

My idea of home defense is staying inside and calling the police. I live in a rural area and it can take the police some time to get here. If folks want to come inside, well game on.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

You may not realize this, but there is more about the M4/M16/AR-15 gun that deems it an assault rifle than JUST the fact it is semi-automatic.

PS: Heck that M4 that is depicted in the image is also known as a carbine because it is a short rifle that sacrifices maximum range for easier urban engagement than the old fashioned M16 does.

So is an AR-15 from Bob's guns an Assault Rifle? (yes or no is all you need here)

I guess so. It's pretty much the same gun as an M-16; it just can't be set to 3 round burst like the M16 can.

So any semi auto weapon is an "assault weapon"? What's different between the AR-15 and the Marlin Model 60 (besides caliber)?

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
That's a straw man, obviously. Again, the whole point is to have some capacity to fight back or defend yourself in the case of tyranny. It's not "bombing buildings and shooting up schools.

At the point tyranny comes, your vote and voice may be gone. Or set you up to be attacked, at which point if you don't have a weapon then you are done.

More nonsense.

Ever notice how police standoffs always end?

Imagine the 82nd airborne outside your house.

You cannot fight the federal government with violence.

You will lose.

So use the tools that civilisation has endowed you with.

It's not nonsense, it's literally what the second amendment is based on. The problem is you guys want a virtual repeal of the second amendment without addressing the issues at hand nor acknowledging those points.

Yes, currently legal weapons will do little against the military in such a situation.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: DogStarIn1066

If you are labeling people gun nuts you probably didn't even serve sonny.

Not necessarily. There are people in the military who don't understand gun culture or are even heavily in favor of gun control.

Gun culture? I have been hunting since I was a kid, served in the army, and have quite a few furearms. I have a shooting range on my property.

I never considered it a culture. More like I have a basketball hoop in my driveway for fun. Am I a basketball culture guy?

I have a Weber kettle for cooking. Am I a Weber kettle culture guy?I

Lighten up.

I do not worship guns, so I guess I can't be in the gun culture club, if that is what you mean.

a reply to: network dude

The bigger issue here is that the opinion piece was written by a former Supreme Court Associate Justice that does not believe in an individual right to bear arms, and is subsequently calling for the abolishment of the 2nd amendment. That would cause a civil war. Gee, I wonder who would win... the armed and trained militia, or the snowflakes. Come and take.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
That's a straw man, obviously. Again, the whole point is to have some capacity to fight back or defend yourself in the case of tyranny. It's not "bombing buildings and shooting up schools.

At the point tyranny comes, your vote and voice may be gone. Or set you up to be attacked, at which point if you don't have a weapon then you are done.

More nonsense.

Ever notice how police standoffs always end?

Imagine the 82nd airborne outside your house.

You cannot fight the federal government with violence.

You will lose.

So use the tools that civilisation has endowed you with.

It's not nonsense, it's literally what the second amendment is based on. The problem is you guys want a virtual repeal of the second amendment without addressing the issues at hand nor acknowledging those points.

Yes, currently legal weapons will do little against the military in such a situation.

You can have your guns. I don't really mind. But so many people are getting angry about kids getting killed that they are going to make decisions for the rest of us who own guns.

We have to discuss this fairly and understand that many folks hate the idea that you and I have guns.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: network dude

Can you assault someone with it?
Yes or no simple answer here.

Yes.
(complex answer, I can also use a rock. Does that make all rock "assault rocks"?)

Can you assault several someone's without having to reload?
Yes or no?
Simple answer here.

Yes.
(complex answer, I can do that with martial arts weapons as well. I can do that with a long stick or "bow". Does that make my stick an "assault stick"?)

Would you be ok with some crazy on the no fly zone entering the supermarket where you grocery shop and just start shooting everyone in sight while you were there?
Yes or no?
Simple answer here.

Not sure where you were going with that one, but I'm going to say, no, I'd rather nobody shoots anybody. But if someone was to come to the store I was at, and start shooting, I'd be really glad I have a CCW and a .45ACP so I might have a chance to stop the shooter and potentially save lives. (don't do drugs, they are bad, mkay?)

If you were in an active shooter situation would you rather be shot by an AR15 that will frappe your innards making survival impossible or a hunting rifle that will enter and exit in a straight line and depending on where you're hit you may survive with an interesting scar to show the grandkids?
That's multiple choice...

I'd rather not get shot, but knowing what I do of the .223/.556 rounds, and say the .243, or the .308, all would be potentially as deadly. But I would rather be shot by any of them as opposed to the .22lr. (the .22lr would rattle around inside and tear up your guts, that's a bad thing.)

Your nonsensical post would normally throw me off, but lucky for you, I am familiar with your posting history, so I was able to follow along and answer you. While I was able to answer your post, I still am not sure I get if there was a point, but I guess that part isn't a big deal.

If you comprehended my OP, you would realize that I was drawing attention to the false statement that the AR-15 is an "assault weapon", it's not. It's just a semi automatic weapon, operating no differently than the .22lr, I showed. One trigger pull, one shot expelled. If you need any help with all that, just ask. We can do whatever is needed to get you up to speed.

Evidently I was impolite and i apologize for my offense. I am going for a walk as it is obvious I have been rude to people today.

I will try to be polite in the future, and once again I am not intentionally trying to be combative.

I did enjoy all of our exchanges today.

Thanks for putting up with me.

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Krazysh0t

My Mossberg 500 is modable. I have a bright as # light on it. Ban those too?

If you are going to use a firearm for defense, why the heck are you putting a light on it?

Yeah, you see that a lot in Ranger gear.

By the way, I have 2 500's, and they are terrific.

Where I live, sometimes it's night.

Ok, fair enough.

Talk to anyone who has been in combat about putting a light (hey shoot over here) on their weapon.

But it was a funny response.

I do know that coin hunters and hog hunters use lights.

However not for defense, unless you are shooting at unarmed people.

Yeah if you intend to walk around with it on the entire time, you'd have a point. I don't. Talk to anyone that's taken a home defense tactical course.

Well, you are talking to a combat veteran who jumped out of pkanes, got through ranger school and and is still breathing.

What are your questions?

I don't have any. From your training you should know that a light isn't always a bad thing, it just depends how you use it. If you use it carelessly you can give away your position, that's of course true. That doesn't mean it's useless. I have it in case I'm in a situation where I need a light so I can keep both hands on the weapon and not have to hold a flashlight. Alternatively, I have a head lamp that I could use. I mostly use it for work around the house so I can have both hands free, but at night it's hanging on my bedpost. Depending on the situation, it may or may not be necessary or tactically wise to use it. There are a lot of potential scenarios. The use of blanket rules like you should never have a light on your gun is simple-minded. Real life tactical situations are more dynamic. Why am I having to tell you this with your credentials?

Fair enough.

I do agree that a light would be nice for some situations.

I would never us it in combat, and that was my point.

However, you bring up good points.

I'm not going to be using it in combat. Combat is totally different than home defense. Or school defense for that matter.

Agree.

My idea of home defense is staying inside and calling the police. I live in a rural area and it can take the police some time to get here. If folks want to come inside, well game on.

That would be my first action too, if practical. Unfortunately that's not always going to be the case, so I'm prepared for other scenarios. Can you acknowledge this doesn't make anyone a pussy now?

originally posted by: DogStarIn1066

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: Mandroid7
a reply to: DogStarIn1066

If you are labeling people gun nuts you probably didn't even serve sonny.

Not necessarily. There are people in the military who don't understand gun culture or are even heavily in favor of gun control.

Gun culture? I have been hunting since I was a kid, served in the army, and have quite a few furearms. I have a shooting range on my property.

I never considered it a culture. More like I have a basketball hoop in my driveway for fun. Am I a basketball culture guy?

I have a Weber kettle for cooking. Am I a Weber kettle culture guy?I

Lighten up.

I do not worship guns, so I guess I can't be in the gun culture club, if that is what you mean.

This is precisely what I was talking about. You have guns, but you consider people who are more into them than you are to be "gun nuts" and "worshiping guns". That's the culture I'm saying you don't dig, and there are people in the military like you, and that's fine. You shouldn't denigrate those who like guns more than you though.

originally posted by: network dude

I'd rather not get shot, but knowing what I do of the .223/.556 rounds, and say the .243, or the .308, all would be potentially as deadly. But I would rather be shot by any of them as opposed to the .22lr. (the .22lr would rattle around inside and tear up your guts, that's a bad thing.)

Correct. And there have been medical studies to back this up. Here's a summary from one done by Providence Washington (link is to a PDF download):

Handout from the study

Here's part talking about FMJ, which an AR-15 fires, versus hollow points that most people use in handguns for self defense:

Full metal jackets are required by international law to be used in warfare. A full metal jacket will tend to pass right through a person, causing damage between the entrance point and the exit point, but minimizing the damage between. This neutralizes the target, but is less likely to kill the target. Hollow point bullets are used by law enforcement, because they will expand within the person who is struck, causing maximal damage, more likely stopping them and the expanding bullet is less likely to exit the person, striking innocent bystanders.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Irishhaf

I'd say its the modability of the gun. The fact that you can add or remove parts like hand grips, pistol grips, tactical sights, tactical flashlights. Now that I've said this, someone is going to point out the M1 and how you can just modify it to be an M16 like I wouldn't know this fact, but I don't see too many people converting their M16's into old fashioned wood stock M1's. Its more the other way around.

Also, you don't really need all those tactical adaptions to go hunting. Sure they can't hurt to have them, but I see it more like taking a bazooka to go deer hunting. It's overkill. If you can't drop your target with a single shot from a bolt action rifle then you need some practice on your aim. Most hunters sit in a tree stand and wait for their prey to pass anyways. But on the other hand, those adaptations sure do make it easier to operate the gun in a chaotic situation such as a firefight.

That's just the way I see things. I really don't even want to totally ban assault rifles anyways. They look cool as # and are fun to shoot for target practice. I just want more comprehensive background checks on purchases, possibly a national database tracking serial numbers, and mandatory certification classes for gun training and storage for all buyers of guns that has to be maintained and updated. Is this going to stop all gun crime? Nope, but at least its a start instead of pretending like all these shootings are just the sacrifice that is necessary to have a gun culture.

It's nice to have an opinion, but when it's wrong, it's useless.

BTW, how would a hand grip, or a flashlight holder, or even a fake M203 grenade launcher help you kill more folks with your AR-15 then say your Ruger Mini 14? the poor Mini 14 has a damn wooden stock, which obviously limits it's killing capabilities.

Just because you are a lefty, doesn't mean you have to find a way to fit in with every lefty argument. this one, yea, you need to walk away for a bit.

Semi auto is not full auto, and full auto is an assault weapon. Furniture doesn't make the "assault" part happen.

a reply to: DogStarIn1066

No way dude, your opinion is just as important as everyone elses.

That's all this is here. Opinions.

I was just yankin your chain, stick around, echo chambers are boring when we all agree.

It would be like....

Yep,yep,yep,yep,yeah,yes,yep,yep,totally,yep,uhuh,yep,si,totally,yep