Land Expropriation Has Begun - Beginning of The End For South Africa?

Perhaps genocide is not the right word but racially-targeted murders wouldn't be inappropriate. There are many instances of torture, rape and murder with no accompanying property crime. The SA government tries to explain them away as "foiled robberies". Hours to torture but couldn't find any valuables to steal, sure.

Ran across this and the stats show that White farmers are about 4 times more likely than anyone else in SA to become murder victims.

Note these figures are only up to 2013, talk of free land has only spurred further interracial animosity.

www.afriforum.co.za...

originally posted by: halfoldman
Ideologically like day and night, but Winnie Mandela passed away last night.

One can respect people, even if the ideology is not yours.

I feel very sad.

So is this wrong about her?

Winnie Mandela is dead and the mainstream media unsurprisingly portrays the violent murderous communist terrorist as a loving, kind, freedom-fighter ex-wife of the late Nelson Mandela. Stefan Molyneux shines a spotlight onto the bloody history of Winnie and Nelson Mandela and the lefts sick lionization of torturers, murderers and terrorists.

The handwriting is on the wall for those white people still in South Africa.

It's time to immigrate out of that country. It is no longer a place for white people to live.

Things will just get worse and worse.

You have to wonder why white people will try to stick it out when it is obvious that the time has come to leave.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

No, it is not necessarily wrong, it just that when I heard Winnie Mandela passed away the other night, it didn't seem appropriate to speak ill of her.

But then again people in other countries aren't held to our traditions, so they could let rip into the negative aspects of her legacy straight away.

For me it was more a courtesy and respect thing, because despite my strong opinions currently, I'm not totally isolated from other population groups in the country, their traditions, languages and divergent sense of history.

Although she wasn't in public life perhaps for over a decade, she was one of those celebrity politicians that made part of my youth and memories, and it's a chapter closed in my own experience.
Perhaps a bit like PW Botha (who also got a state funeral from erstwhile ideological enemies), and begrudgingly nobody said anything bad around the time of his passing, although a lot of white males suffered under his militarized rule as well.
But when I heard, I still said, "I'm sorry to hear, and condolences ...".
It's more a cultural courtesy thing, at least until the funeral is over.

Oddly enough it was former President Thabo Mbeki who found himself in hot water from his own ANC party for his critique of Winnie Mandela so shortly after her death (rather than any of the opposition parties).
It seems that both black and white South Africans still have a lot of respect for the concept of "elders", whereas Mbeki spent most of his formative years in exile (his own legacy hardly clean; especially his AIDS denialism).
Added to this is that Mbeki was seen as one faction of the ANC after 1994, and Chris Hani and Winnie Mandela the more populist faction to replace Nelson Mandela, and many suspect that Mbeki's faction had a hand in Hani's assassination (behind the hapless white patsies), according to some conspiracies, in cahoots with the CIA.
Whatever the case, Mbeki was seen as very disrespectful by his own party this week.
citizen.co.za...

I think one does need to have at least a bit of respect, diplomacy and humanity when public figures pass away.

Perhaps genocide is not the right word but racially-targeted murders wouldn't be inappropriate.

The desired eradication of a people from an area, based on race is exactly genocide. Why sugar coat it? You know damn well those crying for blood in the streets have a particular race in mind....and now, the state has basically said, "Go for it, we won't stop you"....so yeah, I'd call that not only genocide, but state-sanctioned genocide.

How many refugees are we talking about?

Possibly 4 million.

It's not possible.

Yes, it is.

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: Gazrok

Not trying to sugar coat it but compared to other historical genocides it is different, it may be happening in slow motion. If (or when) things get worse the period before and after will be obvious, I'm just saving the word for the later part should it come.

As for both the Mandelas people in the West need to know the truth. They are idolized and held up as martyrs or something when there is so much blood on both their hands. If people don't learn about that now they probably never will. South Africans are already aware of all these facts for the most part and keep those in balance with those against them and the considerations of the time historically.

Just calling it like I see it, and in this case, South Africa is going to be Zimbabwe, take two.

Ramaphosa on burning issue of land: There will be no land grabs, theft.. Ho Hum

President Cyril Ramaphosa at the Covenant Fellowship Church International in eSikhaleni in KwaZulu-Natal. (ANC via Twitter) President Cyril Ramaphosa at the Covenant Fellowship Church International in eSikhaleni in KwaZulu-Natal. (ANC via Twitter) Multimedia · User Galleries · News in Pictures Send us your pictures · Send us your stories What To Read Next BREAKING: ConCourt dismisses leave to appeal by Oscar Pistorius Russian woman dies after accidentally being embalmed alive by doctors 'Sulking' Mugabe and wife Grace 'refuse to vacate state house' – reports The land will be returned to people within the confines of the law, said President Cyril Ramaphosa during a Good Friday sermon, while also calling on landowners to share the land. Ramaphosa touched on the burning issue of land expropriation without compensation at the Covenant Fellowship Church International in eSikhaleni in KwaZulu-Natal. "We are going to return the land to our people so that our people can have their birth right," he said, adding that it must be done "within the confines of the law". Parliament passed a motion to amend the Constitution to allow for the expropriation of land without compensation.

Ramaphosa said the growth of South Africa's economy resides in the land and he encouraged landowners to share the land. "To those who still hold land - we are passing on a very powerful message that Freedom Charter says - the land must be shared by all the people of our country," said Ramaphosa. "We are not going to steal and grab land," he said. "We are going to want to put the land to best use so our people can regain their wealth."

Conditions for expropriation without compensation The EFF wants the state to own all land and is explicit that section 25 of the Constitution must be amended. The section currently only allows for expropriation in the public interest subject to compensation that can be agreed to by affected parties or approved by a court of law. The proposal would also see black people stripped of their title deeds. The EFF put forward the motion for a constitutional amendment before Parliament and it was approved, however, with an ANC amendment that sent the matter to a Joint Constitutional Review Committee process that will include public consultation. The committee has an August deadline to finalise the process. The party had offered the ANC its 6% representation in Parliament to give it a two-thirds majority to allow for the Constitution to be amended.

www.news24.com...

I subscribe to SafariLive on Youtube they have a game lodge among many in the NE of S Africa in the Kruger National Park. Most of the owners are white I Believe and they do a great conservation service protecting the environment and animals. I presume they all will be effected in some ways
when the time comes ?

you are reading this WAY different than I am....

"We are not going to steal and grab land," he said. "We are going to want to put the land to best use so our people can regain their wealth."

This (to me) translates as, "We do not think of it as stealing land, we think of it as giving the land back to the (black) people"...and, by the way, actions speak louder than words.

When the South African leadership doesn't even bother with efforts to capture those who murdered white farmers and or tortured their families in front of them....it's a pretty clear message.

Interesting that white farmers have been in South Africa for hundreds of years (over 300 I believe), and are often still referred to by the government as "settlers".....

I know it's non-PC to make things a black or white issue, but in this case, it's pretty simple...it's only because South Africa is MAKING it one.

Here is some sense spoken by Mr Malena Yesterday.

There will be no bloodshed in the quest for land, Economic Freedom Fighters leader Julius Malema said on Wednesday. "Mama [Winnie Madikizela-Mandela] wanted the land and she said she did not want the madness of driving white people over the sea. "We say that all the time in the EFF, but it does not suit the narrative of those that own the media," Malema said at the party's memorial service for Madikizela-Mandela in Brandfort, Free State.

We are not fighting white people. We are having a robust debate about land." Malema said it was not true that the party wanted to commit "white genocide". "No white man has been killed in South Africa because of the land… There is no case in South Africa of a white person being killed because of the land. "There is no case in South Africa of any white person being forced out of his property, even [by the] the EFF." He said people had merely gone to live on unoccupied land. "We are not going to do so by killing any white person. There will never be blood, and that is what Mama taught us."

www.news24.com...

a reply to: skywatcher44

Got it, murdering a farmer doesn't remove them from the land.
More double talk and backtracking to appear rational.
Don't leave Whites - you are in no danger from the government.
On the other hand we won't do squat to save you either.

We are not fighting white people. We are having a robust debate about land." Malema said it was not true that the party wanted to commit "white genocide". "No white man has been killed in South Africa because of the land… There is no case in South Africa of a white person being killed because of the land. "There is no case in South Africa of any white person being forced out of his property, even [by the] the EFF." He said people had merely gone to live on unoccupied land. "We are not going to do so by killing any white person. There will never be blood, and that is what Mama taught us."

Really?

Robert "Oki" Turner, 66, was beaten to death before her eyes six months ago on their isolated stretch of mountain land in Limpopo.

He was one of the latest victims of a long campaign of violence against the country's farmers, who are largely white.

www.news24.com...

The Turners were targeted after nightfall on June 14 when two armed men stormed their farm. Debbie was alone after her husband stepped out to fix a tap.

"They said: 'We want money.' I said: 'I haven't got money,'" recounted Debbie.

"They dragged me all over the house and put me under the shower and turned it on and left me for 15 minutes.

"Then they decided to try to rape me. I said: 'Please don't rape me, I've got HIV.'"

Sometime later, Oki was found slumped motionless, covered in blood, after being savagely beaten by the attackers searching for the key to the couple's safe.

He died in hospital a few hours later

"We're being hunted," said Pauli, a 43-year-old farmer who declined to give her surname.

Hans Bergmann was recently assaulted on his farm, but takes a different approach.

Some weeks ago, armed men broke in to rob his safe, tied him up and shot him in the foot.

"In South Africa everybody thinks farmers have a lot of money," he said.

Bergmann, who is in his 60s, declines to carry a gun or abandon his land.

"I just accept it... where do I go from here if I leave the farm?" he said.

Or how about this kind of BS....

IF WHITE farmers want to flee for a “racist country” like Australia they should leave the keys to their houses and tractors behind, the head of South Africa's radical Marxist ... SOUTH Africa's radical opposition leader says white farmers should leave for “racist” Australia, but insists “we are not killing them”.

www.google.com... com.au%2Ffinance%2Feconomy%2Fworld-economy%2Fsouth-african-politician-says-australia-is-a-racist-country-farmers-should-leave-the-keys-when-they-go%2F news-story%2Fe98607c4fa66d30d9b2731aa30e2a956&usg=AOvVaw2pMRXLnJ_MZbGgLtuhIZ0e

And the end result will be just like Zimbabwe. It's already getting there....

Vast swathes of once productive farm land now lie fallow as a result of the ANC’s failed land reform policies. Rural Development and Land Reform Minister Gugile Nkwinti candidly acknowledges that the billions of rands spent in the past two decades have reduced food security because 90% of the redistributed farms lie fallow, with former employees now living in shack settlements around nearby towns as valuable farming equipment rusts on abandoned fields, as buildings are carried away brick by brick and once-arable lands and productive pastures become veld again.

www.biznews.com...

originally posted by: Plotus
Who would fill the void ? .... China ?

I was just going to say that...China is looking at big expansion in Africa.

I remember a few years ago a show on TV about a gem hunter who talked about the large numbers of Chinese that were in Africa then and that they were inflating the gem market as they would convert money into gems to avoid taxes etc.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: skywatcher44

Got it, murdering a farmer doesn't remove them from the land.
More double talk and backtracking to appear rational.
Don't leave Whites - you are in no danger from the government.
On the other hand we won't do squat to save you either.

The farmer murder rate is being played also there are black Farmers , white farmers and mixed farmers and farm workers.
Lauren Southern is having a field day and not thinking murders make the news is baloney.

According to the best available statistics, farm murders are at their highest level since 2010-11. South Africa's Police Service says 74 people were murdered on farms between April 2016 and March 2017, up from 58 in the previous year. That's broadly in line with figures collected by the Transvaal Agricultural Union (TAU). They rely on media reports, social media posts and tip-offs from their members, which means they don't pick up every murder or attack that takes place. They counted 64 murders on farms in 2015, 71 in 2016, and 68 in the first nine months of 2017 alone. It is worth noting that both the police and the TAU are counting murdered farmers, farm workers and visitors to farms - irrespective of race. But a rise in the number of farm murders doesn't tell us anything about whether farmers are more at risk than average South African.

To do that, we need to calculate the murder rate - the chance of being murdered. It's easy enough to tell you what the average is for South Africa. There were 19,016 murders in South Africa in 2016-17, according to the police. According to Statistics South Africa's mid-year estimate for 2016, there were 55,908,900 people in South Africa. That's 34 murders for every 100,000 people. Are farmers at greater risk than this national average? How many farmers? The truth is, we don't know. We can't calculate a meaningful murder rate for farmers, because we don't know how many there are. Do we include all 810,000 people employed in agriculture? That gives a farm murder rate of 9.1 per 100,000 - much lower than the South African average. Or, do we restrict ourselves to the 32,375 commercial farmers counted in the country's last agricultural census in 2007? That's what AfriForum, a group that campaigns for the interests of Afrikaners in South Africa, appears to have done. It has estimated a farm murder rate of 156 per 100,000 that has been widely quoted in recent days.

www.bbc.co.uk...

To sum up, forget about numbers, because they don't have anything recent, nor do they break it down by race (for political reasons), so no....don't worry, no genocide going on here.

Pardon us if we say BS....

The stories coming from those who fled, who saw their loved ones tortured, raped, killed in front of them says far more than any arbitrary numbers, thanks.

We heard this whole song and dance before, with Zimbabwe. It was BS then, and it's BS now.

It's state-encouraged (if not sponsored) genocide, and pretending it is not, is just that....pretending.

Not to say black farmers aren't killed also...they are. Rural targets are often easier ones as they can be long gone before any authorities, even if they were inclined to do anything. Difference is, they'll be more likely to just be robbed than killed...only killed if they don't cooperate.

Now wait, restitution is supposed to be about specific things stolen, not about people who always had their own recognized tribal lands (in fact, the most fertile land in SA) setting themselves up wheresoever they like. Since when did the Xhosas live in Hermanus? "The direct words that they used are 'That they are going to kill the coloreds and the whites'". Not true of course, they just caused major mayhem and destruction of public property, where they never had an ancestral claim. But once historical revisionism and internal Bantu colonialization is out of the bag, expect chaos. It's not going to go back in the bag, no matter how many caveats and reassurances are given.
www.news24.com...

But yeah, they wanna go back to the 19th century - a horror of inter-tribal warfare, cannibalism and genocide, not even Mel Gibson could do it justice in film.

But just wait until the one group invades the land of another group. Then we're gonna see real tribal war. But hey, it's par for the irresponsible, delusional Leftist discourse.

a reply to: Wildbob77

They try to stick it out because many of them have been there generatiOns......since before the US was even a country......

Would be like asking every single American today to leave the United States, only they’ve been there longer

Every time I read about this, it makes me enormously sad. I wish there was something we could do.