U S. To Expel 60 Russian Diplomats In Response To Nerve Agent Attack.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Jay-morris


What makes you think that Russia might be innocent? Why all the love for Putin and hatred for your own country?

Why does the thought that Russia might be innocent mean that the poster hates his/her own country? It is ludicrous hyperbole that makes no sense, and it is hard to take you seriously when you post stuff like that.

Maybe not wanting your own and other countries dragged into a war because of what is so far only assumptions of guilt, no solid and undisputable proof provided yet, actually means the OPPOSITE of hate. Maybe not wanting innocent people and soldiers to die because of what may be actually an attempt at framing Russia, is just common sense - and an expression of LOVE for your country and your fellow countrymen.

Fact is that the US and their allies messed up so badly with their fabricated WMD evidence in order to invade Iraq, that their lies have made it difficult for many people to trust officials who expect people to jump right aboard the war train simply because of claims and accusations. The 500,000 innocent children in Iraq who died because of the lies from the ruthless, shameless war mongerers must NEVER be forgotten, and humankind must ensure that such a horrific tragedy never happens again. We have to do better and be better than that.

To me it seems like you are very determined to declare Russia guilty and get a war started ASAP. You attack people who have doubts and want proof, you even accuse them of hatred for their country. It is bizarre. Maybe you are the one who is filled with the opposite of love.

a reply to: oldcarpy

I think Jay, rather like myself, has a great deal of love for his country, and precisely because he has a lot of love for his country and his countrymen, he has nothing but loathing, livid, blood red hatred for its government and its appendages.

a reply to: oldcarpy

What makes you think that Russia might be innocent? Why all the love for Putin and hatred for your own country

One thing i have learnt is that you NEVER take for gospel what our government is telling us.

Surprised you have not learnt that yourself.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Jay-morris


What makes you think that Russia might be innocent? Why all the love for Putin and hatred for your own country?

I think every person deserves due process regardless of their nationality. We don't discriminate Mexicans in America. We sure as heck should not discriminate Russians or anyone else in America.

a reply to: MostlyReading

To me it seems like you are very determined to declare Russia guilty and get a war started ASAP. You attack people who have doubts and want proof, you even accuse them of hatred for their country. It is bizarre. Maybe you are the one who is filled with the opposite of love.

I have consistently stated that there is an ongoing Police investigation and an OPCW one too and that we need to see what that all says, but, in the meantime, it seems that it is likely that Russia may be to blame.

To suggest that I am warmongering is without any foundation whatsoever.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: vinifalou


No, not at all.

Thankfully, in the UK I can access lots of media resources and information from which I can form an informed opinion.

Because we are a free country, unlike elsewhere for instance, Russia. Russia's state media toes Putins line and dissent is cracked down on:

BBC: Russia Profile - Media

Internet users can find themselves faced with criminal charges and can end up in prison. At least over here you can be as rude as you like about our Govt without fear of getting your head kicked in or ending up in prison.

You rely on mainstream media lol You believe that is the gospel? Are you that gullible?

They lied about Russia. They pointed fingers when they had no evidence. They said the nerve agent was from Russia. Now it looks like it was not.

They are hell bent on starting something with Russia! But this time they went too far!

a reply to: sunShines


Where do you get from my posts that I might be against due process?

a reply to: Jay-morris


And where do you get that I solely rely on MSM for my views? I don't.

Do you have any actual basis for challenging anything in that BBC article, by the way?

As I have consistently said, we simply do not know all of the evidence yet and will not know until these investigations are completed. I can, however, form reasonable grounds for my suspicions, which at this stage, is all they are.

You do not know that there is no evidence but are equally entitled to your views, I just choose to disagree and do not share your views.

a reply to: alldaylong


And I have also learnt a lot about you.

a reply to: TrueBrit


Is hatred such a good thing? I do not think it is ever a good thing, I am surprised that you apparently do. Particularly as I am getting accused, wrongly, by some on here for apparently wanting to start a war!

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: alldaylong


And I have also learnt a lot about you.

Good. I hope you enjoy it.

Have you seen this by the way ?

evolvepolitics.com... /

a reply to: alldaylong


I have seen it now, thanks. What does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

a reply to: oldcarpy

Well as it's my thread i can put on whatever i wish.

a reply to: oldcarpy

Hatred of being oppressed on ones own soil, by a government which has deliberately starved, neglected, or removed support from some tens of thousands of its own people in such a manner as to cause their deaths over the last decade, is legitimate. Hatred of the boot which stands upon ones neck is not only entirely healthy, but natural, normal, and RIGHT.

Hating an entity which misuses the public purse, to finance proxy wars in regions we have no business in, largely for the benefit of massive companies which profit from conflict, while the people that entity is allegedly there to serve, die in their thousands, are kicked out onto the streets, while the veterans who were told by that entity that they were going to war in defence of their country, only to be cast aside when they could no longer fight, to live in the streets and die in the cold, is RIGHT.

Refusing to accept the primacy of that entity, when it is clear that entity has not the slightest consideration for the welfare of the majority of the citizens who rely upon its protection, the laws it writes and the budgets it compiles to make their lives remotely possible, leave alone comfortable, is the most patriotic thing a person can involve themselves with.

My country is something I love. My government are and have been for some time, about the business of deconstructing the things that make my country worth loving. I refuse to accept that leadership, and I readily admit that I have such a loathing for it that if it were a physical object, it would be hot enough to burn steel. And with that there is nothing wrong in the least little bit. Phobic hatred is evil, and dangerous, because it is IRRATIONAL fear, which leads to irrational hatred. I have every, legitimate, documented reason to DESPISE the government of my country and the people who run it, not because I have an irrational fear of them, but because I have seen what they have done to my country, who they have sold us out to, and seen the crushing weight of their callous disregard for my countrymen kill the vulnerable. There is nothing ignoble about the way I feel about my government. There is nothing morally objectionable about the depth of my loathing for those disreputable, murderous, cowardly swine. Every single quanta of my disgust at their very existence is legitimised by the things they do, to other nations citizens, and our own.

No person who loves this country, should be able to look upon its government at present, with anything other than the most abject disgust.

a reply to: alldaylong


Not if it is entirely off topic, surely?

a reply to: TrueBrit


I am guessing that you will not be voting Conservative any time soon?

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: MostlyReading

To me it seems like you are very determined to declare Russia guilty and get a war started ASAP. You attack people who have doubts and want proof, you even accuse them of hatred for their country. It is bizarre. Maybe you are the one who is filled with the opposite of love.

I have consistently stated that there is an ongoing Police investigation and an OPCW one too and that we need to see what that all says, but, in the meantime, it seems that it is likely that Russia may be to blame.

To suggest that I am warmongering is without any foundation whatsoever.

The foundation is your own posts and your own words.

When you accuse people of having "hatred" (!) for their country simply for wanting proof that Russia was behind the poisoning before a war is started, it is YOUR accusations that are without foundation whatsoever. An unhinged personal attack like that is why you sound aggressive and like a war mongerer who has little regard for proofs, facts and common sense.

I am sorry that you are not able to see this yourself. Maybe you need to take a step back from this topic and calm down a bit before you make further bizarre accusations towards people who see things differently than you.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: alldaylong


Not if it is entirely off topic, surely?

Read the T's & C's

a reply to: MostlyReading


There is much irony in your post.

An "unhinged personal attack"?

For goodness sakes, seriously?

Maybe it is you that needs to calm down and get a grip.

a reply to: oldcarpy

I am guessing that you will not be voting Conservative any time soon?

It is... exceptionally unlikely. But more importantly, I will also not believe on face value, ANY damned thing they say, given that their agenda has been shaped by things other than the defence of the realm and love of the land, people and concept of this country in which we live. They cannot be trusted to tell the truth about their own actions, leave alone those of any other nation or its operatives.