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1791... Time for a change?

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posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 10:22 AM
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originally posted by: Lagomorphe

My question : What stops some of you people from becoming more open minded and asking for a change.

I see...we must be closed-minded if we don't want that amendment bastardized any further than it already has over the years?

Way to phrase your question in the form of an insult.

Regardless, I'll just quote my Jefferson quote below as an answer to your bolded question (and I'll bold it so it matches):

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson

Simple and to the point, but even more on the topic, liberties and freedoms are a thing to covet, not just disregard because, statistically speaking, a minute amount of bad things happen because people abuse a right by breaking the law and holding a criminal disregard for human life. If people in France choose not to own firearms, that doesn't mean that those choices should reflect poorly on other citizens.

I'll keep the 2nd Amendment over France's restrictive gun laws any day.




posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 11:07 AM
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I think people outside of America are shocked at the shear number and types of firearms that are available to the average person without training and safe storage, which leads to a lot of "accidents" and deaths that then make the news around the world on a regular basis.
If you join the military, they don't just hand out firearms, you have to be trained first?

As members of a "World Wide" forum, we head here to read, comment on and sometimes confirm news stories. To then be faced by rude and sometimes aggressive statements by some members with comments like "S.T.F.U", "Mind your own business", "Your opinion means nothing, your not American", "You not taking our guns!!!", whilst some of these members are quite happy to post comments about other countries and their "immigrant problems", or no "go areas" in cities, can you not see the hypocrisy from some posters. It's ok to post comments about other countries but god forbid someone post something about America.

Then there's Eisenhower's comments about the military industrial complex "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex". With massive companies making millions selling the government and then it's citizens the next "great thing". Citizens have become more militarized, with criminals accessing that same "great thing", your police force also having to do the same, it's a perpetual circle that's unending, powered by it's citizens, giving even more money to the military industrial complex.


It's also a shame that the 2nd amendment wasn't for all Americans.......

Slavery and links to the 2nd amendment



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: Lagomorphe

Why?

Why change?

Why now?

What is so important "now" that wasn't important 10, 50, 100 years ago?


Provide a reason why.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: Kurokage

People get angry, and for right or wrong there are rather obvious reasons. Namely, having to rehash the same discussions over and over. Its not enough that its all laid out and explained ad nauseum...but to have to then repeat it all over again to the same people a few months down the road...

We aren't talking about a law about cannibis here. We are talking fundamental human rights. And while other nations do not see fit to safeguard human rights, as we see in the UK...even obvious rights like a freedom of speech can be assailed under the banner of good intentions.

It doesn't help to have lines that insinuate we enjoy seeing our children murdered being thrown in for shock value. Surely you can see how that would create a rather negative response, right?



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: Lagomorphe

First, do you have your government's permission to express your opinion on this topic? I only ask because I am concerned for your welfare. While it's a pretty safe bet that the British government supports disarming serfs worldwide, I would get written permission just to be safe. Otherwise, you could wind up sharing a cell with that guy who taught his dog the Nazi salute.

Second, even if you do have your government's permission to express your opinion, you may be doing your country a disservice. I don't know if you've been paying much attention to American politics lately, but we've gotten real finicky about foreign bots trying to influence our government. We wouldn't even need a Congressional investigation to prove that Brits are trying to influence American policy. We could just go straight to expelling diplomats and economic sanctions. That could really hurt the British economy after you Brexit. (Just kidding, we all know that the British government will never allow a Brexit, no matter what British subjects want.)

Lastly, we got rid of royals almost two and a half centuries ago. Well, most of them. We still have the King of Pop, the Queen of Soul, and the Duke of Earl, but we're working on it. When you guys get rid of kings, queens, princes, princesses, knights, and palaces, then come back and tell us how we need to join the 21st century.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 11:36 AM
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a reply to: VictorVonDoom

He lives in France.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 11:37 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


You always respond with civility and as a gentleman, and explain you view point for people who see things differently.
But we to have to "rehash" the same discussions when people post about "gunless" lefty Britain and such, both sides make assumptions about the other mainly from tabloid newspapers or websites.
edit on 26-3-2018 by Kurokage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: Kurokage

Fair admission: i don't always respond with civility. Personal matters have challenged my civility as of late, and Im trying to resolve that. I find myself being far more rude than I am accustomed to. It won't last forever, Im sure. And I do apologize to anyone out there who may feel i've been more rude lately. Its me...not anyone else.

 


on to your reply: like i mentioned, i think the "don't you care for your children" kind of adds fuel to that frustration.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: VictorVonDoom

He lives in France.


What's the difference?



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: VictorVonDoom




do have your government's permission to express your opinion, you may be doing your country a disservice.


It seems you're doing the same thing with your comments!!



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Lagomorphe

Why?

Why change?

Why now?

What is so important "now" that wasn't important 10, 50, 100 years ago?


Provide a reason why.



How about the amount of civilians shot in peace time in America compared to the rest of the planet or countries of similar size in the spate of 1 year?

Warmest respects

Lags



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: VictorVonDoom

He lives in France.


Just seen your post... whoops.

@Victor : I have firearms here in France and legally too.

Warmest respects

Lags
edit on 26-3-2018 by Lagomorphe because: I am crap



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: VictorVonDoom




do have your government's permission to express your opinion, you may be doing your country a disservice.


It seems you're doing the same thing with your comments!!


Nice thing about being an American, I am not required to express an opinion that serves the interests of my government.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 12:10 PM
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Ain't mofo here worried about France or the EU.

LOL

We seek to not ever be like y'all.

Simple as that.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 12:14 PM
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Back tomorrow folks as it’s family time here.

Enjoy and stay safe.

Kindest respects

Lags



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: Lagomorphe

Never edited my post.




posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: Kurokage

As BFFT said: It's mostly because of repeated discussions over and over, and to many of the same people.

Someone from outside of the US: Why can't you be more like us?

Those of us here in the US: Because we are not like you. Our country, people, culture and government is different from yours.

Then of course as BFFT said: the insults and accusations of - "You don't care if your children get murdered!", which of course is designed to bring out a emotional response.......which is a big problem when people start dictating to us how we should govern ourselves, all based upon emotional responses and fears.

As I said in a earlier post: the idea behind our country was - Live Free. Free with out government control and acting as a Nanny State.

With that freedom comes responsibility, both personal and to be responsible to keep those freedoms.

Anyone that thinks a government of a country has the best interests of their citizens at heart is either a idiot or a moron.

History has prove over and over again: Governments really do not care about their people. Governments only care about Government and CONTROL.

Too many here on ATS seem to think that the US should be just like them. They seem to think that the US is New York City, Chicago, Miami, etc, etc, all major cities when those are just tiny portions of our country, a country that is 3.8 MILLION square miles and has a diverse culture that is different in many places.

It becomes very apparent reading the threads on here about gun control, especially threads started up by those that don't live here, that they really, really do not understand what it is like to live here, how big our country is, how diverse it is, nor do they really understand what it USED to be to be an American (free).

So those of us that do, get a bit irate at having to explain it over and over again....only to see it fall on deaf ears and to have the arguments regurgitated over and over again.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 12:21 PM
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Gday long time lurker. I joned to ask the Americans where in the Amendments it says "Bear Arms" Means the right to military style semi autos and Automatics?

Also why would taking the more deadly weapons out of the hands of everyday citizens be against the amendments if you were still allowed ownership of a bolt loaded style weapon?

Why don't you just control your guns better with more restriction or harder and more education about responsible gun ownership?



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: slipdigskywalker

Would militia not imply a force that could defend in modern times?


Well regulated.


WHAT'S THAT MEAN?

esplain

and you think just anyone can get a full auto?


ROFLMAO.

edit on 26-3-2018 by Lysergic because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 12:25 PM
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originally posted by: slipdigskywalker
Gday long time lurker. I joned to ask the Americans where in the Amendments it says "Bear Arms" Means the right to military style semi autos and Automatics?

Also why would taking the more deadly weapons out of the hands of everyday citizens be against the amendments if you were still allowed ownership of a bolt loaded style weapon?

Why don't you just control your guns better with more restriction or harder and more education about responsible gun ownership?


Right next to the place in the 1st amendment where the freedom of speech mentions the printing press.

The use of the word "arms" was intentional. As arms of that time were smooth bore large caliber flintlocks. Which, by the way, were EXACTLY the same weapons used by the opposing military force. So to them, "arms" meant military assault firearms.

Next uninformed question?




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