It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

1791... Time for a change?

page: 14
8
<< 11  12  13    15  16 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 07:09 AM
link   
a reply to: BigLes

last school shooting in my memory was Dunblane Thomas Hamilton! he shot 16 people dead

that was when I was in highschool 96

22 years ago
and the only other gun related crime on a larger scale was that raoul moat but he only shot and killed 3 or 4 people

the only other mass killings were related to Northern Ireland , but that was declared a conflict

Also just to confirm you can still legally own guns in the UK , the process is just more strict and well checked to ensure no nutjobs are allowed to own guns.
You need a reason to own a gun, hunter by trade, or gun enthusiast with gun club membership, ex military with gun club membership etc
You can just join a gun club and get a gun, but you need to have your house inspected by the police to ensure that the gun is locked in a cabinet fixed to the building and the ammo is also locked in a cabinet. Guns in the UK are not for personal defense.
As there are no tresspassing laws on UK land , people cant threaten each other with death by gunshot wound
because being violent towards strangers on your land is not something British people condone!

But dont get me wrong there are gun related crimes every other week in Scotland and England ,

Glasgow , London , Manchester , are rife with guns .
Guns are not hard to get a hold of illegally. You just have to know the right people.



edit on 28-3-2018 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-3-2018 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-3-2018 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 11:11 AM
link   

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: lakenheath24

Oh goodness, the irony is too much! My sides!!!!

You never answered or addressed my question, which was the entire reason I brought up australian gun confiscation. Instead you flew off into how much you would oppose confiscation. So let me pose my question again before you go "a ridin and a ropin... a whompin and a whuppin" again.

If full on confiscation didn't work in australia, why would the proposals you made in this post work?

But take a look in the mirror before you accuse others of not reading posts they respond to. Reading back through our conversation it's obvious you only make it through a few sentences of each post.


I think you need to go back and re-read the posts in this thread?? Your comments to Lakenheath24 make no sense what so ever!!



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 12:39 PM
link   
Meh. They cheated at cricket ffs. Nobody takes a penal colony seriously.

a reply to: Kurokage




posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 01:44 PM
link   
a reply to: sapien82

You are forgetting Derek Bird who killed 12 in 2010 in Cumbria.

en.wikipedia.org...

Reading through the wiki he used a .22LR rifle and a shotgun, I only remember the media talking about a shotgun. He killed himself. I have little doubt that if Raul Moat had been able to get hold of heavier weapons he would have killed more people than he did, he had a massive grudge against the police and people who had upset him.

One difference between these cases was that Bird was a licenced firearms holder and Moat wasn't (no way for him to be since he had only just come out of prison) so I guess that might be an example of UK laws preventing a massacre? Interestingly it sounds like Bird also had a criminal record for theft in the past, I guess his crimes were not that serious and he obtained good character refernces.

In my view it is not thatdifficult to own lethal firearms in the UK. Yes, it takes some time and you have to demonstrate you can securely keep them but its not as arduous as people think - provided you own land or are a member of a club with a range suitible for the calibres you want to shoot. Almost anyone can apply for and get a shotgun certificate, plenty of people living in the countryside have one. The restriction really is the types of firearm you can own, sure you can have an AR-15, but it won't be self-loading you will need to re-cock or tap a release button (depending on type) after each round fired. That was the rule that came in after the 1986 massacre. Northern Ireland is the only UK country that allows firearms to be owned by Joe Public for the purpose of self-defence. That's not to say a legally held firearm cannot be used to protect yourself - but you need to remember that you might find yourself on trial for murder if it at all sounds like you didn't need to actually shoot the person. UK laws on self-defence aren't simple but the principle is:

"It is both good law and good sense that a man who is attacked may defend himself. It is both good law and good sense that he may do, but only do, what is reasonably necessary."

I anticpate that in the near future I will probably be required to purchase a gun-safe for my air-rifle. I'm not against that but if I am recquired to then licence it, I'll probably consider applying for a section1 licence since my local ranges have 150 yard lanes for .22 LR. If other airgun shooters do the same (there are a lot of us) such a change in the law could result in even more privately owned firearms. A good quality sub 12fpe air-rifle often costs more to buy than a .22LR semi-auto! I suppose the pellets are cheap though :-)

Anyhow, that's enough thread drift... if Americans want one example of why they shouldn't allow tampering with their ammendments then the history of UK firearms acts is it. Before the 20th century UK firearms laws were liberal and it was thought just that you could choose to own a firearm without explaining yourself to anyone:

www.ncc-1776.org...

I think California would like to emulate UK gun laws though...



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 02:11 PM
link   
I nearly forgot about these, but here are some youtube vids I made when the inlaws from the UK came to visit us in Florida.

This is what the vast, VAST, majority of gun owners like to do. Just have a bit of fun punching holes in paper. Since this is a guaranteed right in America, we view it as "why should I be punished, cuz Johnny failed school and decided to take it out on his classmates?, or "Ezekial joined a gang so he deserved it....I just like to blast some targets". We are not callous to the fact we have an epidemic, but we detest being punished as a whole for other peoples inhumane acts.

www.youtube.com...

These are fair and legitimate arguments. It's why you get some folks on here comparing drink driving, or auto accident deaths, and saying why not ban the car, or booze.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 02:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: BigLes
a reply to: sapien82

I anticpate that in the near future I will probably be required to purchase a gun-safe for my air-rifle. I'm not against that but if I am recquired to then licence it, I'll probably consider applying for a section1 licence since my local ranges have 150 yard lanes for .22 LR



The Air Rifle licence is already required here in Scotland.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 02:31 PM
link   
a reply to: lakenheath24

Thanks for sharing, his comments after firing the .50 made me laugh.

I'm glad we are not yet at the point where we can't enjoying putting holes in paper in the UK. Most American shooters probably would be upset by all the restrictions though. If legislation against AR-15 type weapons come in this is the kind of thing you can expect to shoot;

youtu.be...

From a UK perspective it would probably be good for UK shooters if the US did have similar laws, these lever release rifles are very expensive due to the limited numbers produced. A few hundred thousand US shooters having to buy them would bring prices right down



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 02:44 PM
link   
a reply to: BigLes

ahh, I was wondering what a lever release gun was. Personally, I like my long rifles. I have a .300 WinMag that is good out to several hundred yards depending on the skill of the shooter. I was fairly decent at killing gallon water jugs at 400 yds, but this caliber is very popular at the 1000 yard shoots. (I dont recognize the metric system LOL) I also have a .44 magnum Redhawk with a scope that is highly accurate out to 150 yards. Thise were in the vids. I prefer the long range stuff to the point-n-spray rubbish.

Not to derail, but can any of my British friends please explain why you buy gas in litres, but measure everything in miles? It is a conundrum that I just don't get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 02:47 PM
link   
a reply to: djz3ro

Oh man, that does make me chuckle...an air rifle license!!! Thats akin to a beer drinking license. Country kids in Ohio are given air rifles on their 2nd or 3rd birthday.



ETA...I was wondering if the 2 world wars make Europe in general more loathe to guns? Whereas we glamorize the Wild West and gangstas?
edit on 28-3-2018 by lakenheath24 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 02:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: djz3ro

Oh man, that does make me chuckle...an air rifle license!!! Thats akin to a beer drinking license. Country kids in Ohio are given air rifles on their 2nd or 3rd birthday.


I'm one of these people who thinks America needs to tighten up their gun laws (i don't think that's the sole solution, just part of it) and even I think this is ridiculous but I believe this has come about dus to offenses committed with Air rifles around Glasgow and probably Edinburgh (don't be fooled, parts of Edinburgh are as rough as parts of Glasgow). I've been considering an air rifle again since I am more rurally based once more but there's a range in the nearest Market town, so I'm going to check it out and maybe join and go for am actual Firearms licence. Might take me a while to save for my first gun though...
edit on 28/3/18 by djz3ro because: Wrote "considering" twice...



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 03:04 PM
link   
a reply to: djz3ro

I'd completely forgotton about that. Any idea how it is working out? I can't imagine the police are pleased with the extra paper work it will have put on them.

I like this video, it confirms that Amerca's problem isn't the guns, it's the people who live there (and the same for us in the UK too):

youtu.be...

Personally, I don't have a problem with sensible gun laws, I get the impression that countries like New Zealand have got a fair balance, but I think US laws will only change on a state-by-state basis. From what I can understand some already have quite sensible laws (like NZ) but there's not much to stop someone working around them by purchasing in a less restricted State to circumvent them. I think it's Utah that let's any eligible US citizens to have a licence registered there which is recognised in many other States?

This could happen in the EU; there's a story about a Czech dude turning upto a survival and field craft training camp in South Wales, UK with an AK in the boot of his car, not knowing that it was completely illegal and his Czech licence was not recognized... how true it is I don't know.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 03:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: djz3ro

ETA...I was wondering if the 2 world wars make Europe in general more loathe to guns? Whereas we glamorize the Wild West and gangstas?



Actually when I read this addition I realised I've read that somewhere before and I can't remember where. It may have been an opinion piece or might have been somethiing more fact based but I think there might be some merit in what you say.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 03:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: BigLes
a reply to: djz3ro

I'd completely forgotton about that. Any idea how it is working out? I can't imagine the police are pleased with the extra paper work it will have put on them.



Not really, all I've heard about it, ever was first it was passed into law, then it was reported that law would soon be implemented and then in the news the day the law came into practice. Since then, very little has been said about it.

My opinion is thus, they brought this in to stop air guns being used in criminal cases, this legislation isn't going to effect the criminal use of air guns because those using them illegally won't bother with a licence. Those who will be effected are the law abiding citizens who were using them sensibly in the first place...



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 03:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: djz3ro

ETA...I was wondering if the 2 world wars make Europe in general more loathe to guns? Whereas we glamorize the Wild West and gangstas?


There's probably a little truth to that, I think the UK's restrictive laws started to come in due to scares about communist/bolshevik uprisings and post WW1 there were a hell of a lot of battle hardened men who knew a thing or two about firearms...

I also think that America as a whoel has fallen for marketing myths pushed by people like Colt to sell revolvers etc. Maybe the laws won't need to change if shooting becomes socially unacceptable like smoking did... it can be a bit like that in the UK - I won't bother telling people I enjoy shooting unless I know them well enough.

As for metric/imperial we are messed up. I can't tell you how many yards are in a mile becuase I was never taught it in school, and I buy fuel in litres, but I work out economy in miles-per-gallon which requires solving the maths in my head to convert the litres into gallons (1 imperial gallon = 4.55 litres) This was even more humerous when discussing my new car with US and Danish friends since Danes use litres-per-100km and US gallons are smaller than imperial! Totally off topic now...



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 03:21 PM
link   

originally posted by: BigLes
a reply to: djz3ro
This could happen in the EU; there's a story about a Czech dude turning upto a survival and field craft training camp in South Wales, UK with an AK in the boot of his car, not knowing that it was completely illegal and his Czech licence was not recognized... how true it is I don't know.


I am friends with a handful of Czechs and two of those Czechs are among my best friends. They're also two of the craziest mo' fo's I've ever met and I've met some right nutters over the years, this is definitely plausible...



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 03:24 PM
link   
a reply to: BigLes

You know I cant even remember that shooting in 2010

As for the air rifles aye my mate stay in Dumfries and the laws changed and he didnt have suitable lockers for them , so he had to ship his guns across the border to his uncles in England and then get a new cabinet installed then move them back otherwise he'd have caught a charge if found out.

I have considered joining the CLyde valley gun club for sometime now but never really got around to applying for my MOD license



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 03:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: djz3ro

Oh man, that does make me chuckle...an air rifle license!!! Thats akin to a beer drinking license. Country kids in Ohio are given air rifles on their 2nd or 3rd birthday.


...but they can buy a proper gun at 18, but not a beer until they are 21?

Well meaning laws can look really stupid sometimes



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 04:20 PM
link   
a reply to: Lagomorphe

I haven’t watched TV in over 15 years. You should try it some time.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 05:02 PM
link   
Well there ya go. I think ATS can safely shut down now as we have all seen the light. And from an alien abductee at that so we all know it super legit.

Thanks for your whoopin and a whompin.


a reply to: Alien Abduct




posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 05:23 PM
link   
Weĺ you gotta be able to drive at 16 so you can take your buddies out shootin at 18 so that you can do both well by the time you are drunk at 21.
What doesnt make sense about that?


a reply to: BigLes




new topics




 
8
<< 11  12  13    15  16 >>

log in

join