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1791... Time for a change?

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posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: Lagomorphe

I do believe you need history lessons. Remember France being occupied by Germany ? Remember when America stormed the beaches at Normandy, in France to liberate your country. About 90% of that Normandy day invasion to liberate France ....wait for it......were AMERICANS with guns. We have the 2nd Amendment, get the hell over it already. You to have a great day.......is there a particular caliber you want me to purchase my new firearm in named Lags....Ill get it in the wussy .223 caliber.....my honor to the French.




posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 08:50 AM
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A reasonable person may take that as a threat and this will be reported to the mods ASAP.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 08:51 AM
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originally posted by: openyourmind1262
a reply to: Lagomorphe

I do believe you need history lessons. Remember France being occupied by Germany ? Remember when America stormed the beaches at Normandy, in France to liberate your country. About 90% of that Normandy day invasion to liberate France ....wait for it......were AMERICANS with guns. We have the 2nd Amendment, get the hell over it already. You to have a great day.......is there a particular caliber you want me to purchase my new firearm in named Lags....Ill get it in the wussy .223 caliber.....my honor to the French.


Pointless having a polite discussion with you old chap... it will only be one sided and I don't think you have taken your time to read through this whole thread going by your knee jerk comments.

You purchase what you want pal...

Over and out as far as you are concerned.

Kindest respects

Lags
edit on 27-3-2018 by Lagomorphe because: He is just not worth the effort



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 09:29 AM
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originally posted by: openyourmind1262
a reply to: Lagomorphe

I do believe you need history lessons. Remember France being occupied by Germany ? Remember when America stormed the beaches at Normandy, in France to liberate your country. About 90% of that Normandy day invasion to liberate France ....wait for it......were AMERICANS with guns. We have the 2nd Amendment, get the hell over it already. You to have a great day.......is there a particular caliber you want me to purchase my new firearm in named Lags....Ill get it in the wussy .223 caliber.....my honor to the French.


Why do you feel the need to compensate so much with firearms?



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: openyourmind1262


I think you need some serious history and reading lessons.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: djz3ro

You are so wrong! Here, in Idaho, the State Gov't gives this duty to the county tax assessor. He or she, knows where all of the militarily deployable souls live, in that county. When TSHTF, he is the one calling you up. You are the irregular militia, whether you realize it or not. The regulars were co-opted into the Nat'l Guards, back in 1922. So the State's security now rests on the shoulders of all her deployable males in the State.

The last time this could have happened was back in 1954 in Little Rock, Ark. Gov. Faubus was a drunk, but if he'd have been sober, he could have called up the Ark. irregular militia, and quarantined the National Guard Troops, which Ike had mobilized, and then run off, or killed the ten thousand U.S. Paratroopers that Ike marched into Arkansas.

Faubus was only a drunk, but Ike was never much of a field General, either. So it would have ended up with a standoff, just like a couple of years later when Gen. Nassar grabbed the Suez Canal, and massacred 500 French and British Paratroopers which were dropped in to take the canal back from the Egyptians. A sober Faubus would have kept Little Rock, and Gen. Nassar kept the Suez Canal. Economics are the end game in most of these kerfuffles. Suez re-opened under new management, and Little Rock would have very slowly integrated from internal demands. The difference was that the Dixiecrats didn't have a viable leader, to stand up to an overbearing President. Gen. Nassar, OTOH, did have Soviet backing.

But these same Egyptians got their heads handed to them, later, in 1967, when the Arabs ganged up on Israel, in the Six Day War.
Paratroopers are very lightly armed troops, DUH! The Israeli Self Defense Force, is anything but! After thinking it over, the Arabs tried again in 1973 with the Yom Kippur War, and the Israelis plugged up the Suez canal, and then finally ransomed it back to Egypt.

President Eisenhower would have never been re-elected in the 1956 Elections, and either Adlai Stevenson or Richard Nixon would have been chosen to make peace in the South. Just like the Unionist, Sam Houston, Ike would have retreated to Pennsylvania and lived in disgrace. At least Sam Houston has a street named after him in NYC. But they pronounce it, House-ten St.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 04:12 PM
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Gosh, not sure where to start with this thread but here goes;

1. The modern interpretation of the 2nd ammendment means that armed civilians are a prequestite to forming a milita. It probably only needs changing to stop people who didn't think to look up US Supreme Court rulings from asking questions on forums ;-)

2. For much of US history the American Bill of Rights only applied to a small section of the US population, namely property owning white men. Technically it applied to moe than that, but before the 1920's no one had challenged any federal or state law that effectively broke any of the 10 ammendments that formed the Bill of Rights. The ACLU, NAACP and Trade Unions are mostly what forced this to change.

3. We in the UK are not 'unarmed' or likely to be put in prison for teaching a dog to give Nazi salutes. The law is however very nuanced and if your intent is to cause trouble with either weapons or Nazi dogs then you best have the deep pockets to defend yourself in court... this lot could be covered in many other threads, but generally the first ammendment will protect American Nazi Dog Lovers should they decide that uploading videos of themselves saying "Gas the Jews" to their Nazi pet dogs is a good idea. I like the first ammendment, a lot, but I don't like Nazi's.

4. The USA did not supply 90% of the troops who landed on D-Day - I suppose Hollywood makes us think the Canadian and Brtish Armies were just sitting in pubs in London or something... I think everyone agrees the US Army et al needed to be there though.

5. Egypt did not massacre 500 British and French paratroops during Operation Musketeer in 1956. The Egyptions had their arses handed to them. Their entire air-force was destroyed (200 aircraft +) and British and French KIA was well below 100. The British and French climb down happend after Ike refused to back them (I think Ike later regretted this, but at the time I'm not sure he felt he had much choice).

6. After doing some research* I am shocked by how many Americans appear to take Adderall and Ritalin which work in a very similar way to Meth on the brain. It seems that many of the massacres commited by youngsters also have links to these kinds of meds. *educated by Netflix and google, it doesn't take long to be shocked.

7. No one (or hardly anyone) in the modern US needs a semi-automatc rifle like the AR-15 for hunting or personel self-defense (other types of firearm are well suited to both). But Semi-automatic rifles are fun to shoot on proper ranges with snap targets etc. anyone who disagrees hasn't tried it... On a more serious note; a motivated light infantry company armed with AR 15's as their primary infantry rifle would be a very effective force - it's basically the modern day musket if you believe you might need to form a militia.

If the US wants to reduce gun violence then policies towards mental health, pharmacucial advertising, and social wellfare/poverty need to be looked at just as much as access to firearms. My cynical side says to me that modern firearms ownership in the US will be left alone by the US government - if you think of 'Bread and Circuses' it forms part of the circus to keep citizens content, and clearly messing with it is like pulling a Lions tail.

Personally, I enjoy living in the UK, and have never had to fear any form of armed violence but the anti-gun lobby has never let up and are currently campaigning to have .50 cal bolt action and Manually Activiated Release rifles in all full-bore calibres banned. Neither have ever been recorded as used in crime, but they can look very military like and frightening. I doubt they will stop there - my wife is terrified of my TX200 air-rifle which is only lethal to Thumper at 40 yards... Gun crime in the UK is mostly criminal against criminal and will remain that way; acid is far easier to buy and throw in someones face if you are a street robber.
edit on 27-3-2018 by BigLes because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-3-2018 by BigLes because: SPAG



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 04:42 PM
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a reply to: djz3ro

Antiquated? Are you insane? It is more important now than ever before. In a time where forth Amendment rights are ignored(the entirety of the tsa), 1st amendment rights are ignored(forcing people to serve against their religious beliefs, disappearing individuals to pray etc).

Without the second amendment there is no recourse for ignoring of liberties.

Jaden



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 04:48 PM
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a reply to: BigLes

Gee, a common sense review of the subject! I enjoy a good old shoot here about once a year, although I refuse to wear that goofy clothing. Mental health is indeed key...the US and FBI in general seem to keep extremely poor stats on gun crime, as I couldn't find a link that equates a specific age group with a certain weapon, and whether there were medical issues involved. A good database would be invaluable.

Personally, I think morals, family values, and extremely poor discipline is a major factor...kids gotta raise themselves AND they have uncensored access to things on the net that are highly influencing in a very bad way. That and schools are not allowed to discipline like they used to. I dunno...its complicated for sure.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: lakenheath24

Here's probably as good place as any to start with connections to prescription drugs and violence; www.cchrint.org...

I agree on your points regarding family values, morals and discipline. There are many strands to this thread, taking the all guns away (if you actually could) would of course stop all mass shootings, but I am sure other symptoms of from the same problem would appear. Probably that the would be purportraitors do something else - maybe just suicide, in anycase there is clearly a problem that needs addressing. No other country is perfect, especially the UK, my wife deals with some teenagers who have problems, fortunately the chances they have access to firearms is almost nil but that does not mean they are not a risk to themselves or others.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: Lagomorphe
Ok folks, this is just my personal opinion as a foreigner (Brit in France) BUT however some of my family moved over on the Mayflower so I think I have a say here!?

Your second amendment as per the year 1791 :

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Link : www.law.cornell.edu...

My question : What stops some of you people from becoming more open minded and asking for a change.

Definition of an amendment :

a : The process of altering or amending a law or document (such as a constitution) by parliamentary or constitutional procedure rights that were granted by amendment of the Constitution

b : an alteration proposed or effected by this processa constitutional amendment

2 : the act of amending something : correction

3 : a material (such as compost or sand) that aids plant growth indirectly by improving the condition of the soil

Link : www.merriam-webster.com...

We are now in 2018 and NOT 1791....

Maybe it is time for people to take off their blinkers and look towards the future? (question I ask myself quite often for other subjects too.)

Do you see school shootings on such a regular basis in other countries around the world?

I also have firearms (shotguns and rifles (semi-auto too) as a hunter so don't try the old excuse of saying that I know nothing... The difference here in France is that we have laws updated on a regular basis in order to protect those who do not have firearms.

Kindest respects

Lags




Look towards the future, you say?

Friend, I am. I do. And that's why I 100% support our Second Amendment.

It's pretty cut and dry, and the Supreme Court has upheld it as such.

Well-regulated, in the 1700's meant "In good working order"

Every able bodied man (today it would be every able bodied person) was considered Militia. Militia was the last line of defense to defend our Freedom.

The 2nd Amendment will never be repealed. They're not the 10 Suggestions, after all. They're our 10 RIGHTS. And there's a darn good reason it's number two, and not an afterthought or lower on the list. it's simply THAT important of a right.

Sorry you don't understand, but as a Frenchman, it's not for you to understand.

It could be though. Immigrate to the USA, become a citizen, and we'll teach you.

There's a reason we've never been invaded, and never will. The UN would LOVE to see us disarmed.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: lakenheath24

A full on gun confiscation didn't work for the homicide rate in australia, not even the gun homicide rate was affected much. So why would your proposals be any different?
Link

The solution to the problem is fixing the ills that plague our society. Lack of respect for life, demonization of all violence (unless it's in movies or video games for some reason), and prescription happy medicinal field. Guns are an object, they are neither the problem nor a long term solution.
edit on 27-3-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 09:59 PM
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originally posted by: djz3ro
a reply to: Lagomorphe

This relates to a question I wanted to ask on here but I don't think eserves a thread of its own. Obviously not aimed at you Lagomorphe but ATS in general...

How many of you, who tighten your grip on your firearms every time there's a mass shooting in your country and come out en mass to defend the 2nd ammendment, are actually involve in a Militia?

I'm wiling to bet the number is really low or even non existant. It would seem if you own a gun and are not part of militia, your Second Ammendmenting wrong!


The People are the Militia.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 10:06 PM
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For those who say Europe is not as bad as the USA...

www.investors.com...



[A] study of global mass-shooting incidents from 2009 to 2015 by the Crime Prevention Research Center, headed by economist John Lott, shows the U.S. doesn't lead the world in mass shootings. In fact, it doesn't even make the top 10, when measured by death rate per million population from mass public shootings.

So who's tops? Surprisingly, Norway is, with an outlier mass shooting death rate of 1.888 per million (high no doubt because of the rifle assault by political extremist Anders Brevik that claimed 77 lives in 2011). No. 2 is Serbia, at just 0.381, followed by France at 0.347, Macedonia at 0.337, and Albania at 0.206. Slovakia, Finland, Belgium, and Czech Republic all follow. Then comes the U.S., at No. 11, with a death rate of 0.089.

That's not all. There were also 27% more casualties from 2009 to 2015 per mass shooting incident in the European Union than in the U.S.

"There were 16 cases where at least 15 people were killed," the study said. "Out of those cases, four were in the United States, two in Germany, France, and the United Kingdom."

"But the U.S. has a population four times greater than Germany's and five times the U.K.'s, so on a per-capita basis the U.S. ranks low in comparison — actually, those two countries would have had a frequency of attacks 1.96 (Germany) and 2.46 (UK) times higher."

Yes, the U.S. rate is still high, and nothing to be proud of. But it's not the highest in the developed world. Not by a long shot.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 02:16 AM
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Did you even read my posts? Not only would i vehemently oppose gun confiscation, you reiterated every point i made about the underlying problems.

The problem with threads like this is that people key on one word in the OP and then ride straight to the end....a ridin and a ropin....a whompin and a whuppin(blazing saddles) every last poster in sight trying to save the republic and school people on comma placement.
In tye meantime the thread fails because reasonable adults cannot intelligently discuss and debate possible solutions to what the CDC deeks to be an epidemic.

a reply to: Dfairlite



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 05:00 AM
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a reply to: lakenheath24

Oh goodness, the irony is too much! My sides!!!!

You never answered or addressed my question, which was the entire reason I brought up australian gun confiscation. Instead you flew off into how much you would oppose confiscation. So let me pose my question again before you go "a ridin and a ropin... a whompin and a whuppin" again.

If full on confiscation didn't work in australia, why would the proposals you made in this post work?

But take a look in the mirror before you accuse others of not reading posts they respond to. Reading back through our conversation it's obvious you only make it through a few sentences of each post.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 05:55 AM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

I've read through that article & study. My impression is its the age old getting the statistics to tell you what you want. I've not delved into it in detail but this set off my BS detector:

"There were 16 cases where at least 15 people were killed," the study said. "Out of those cases, four were in the United States, two in Germany, France, and the United Kingdom."

I know for a fact that between 2009-2015 there were zero mass shootings in the UK where 15 or more people were killed by gunshots. The last mass-shooting on UK soil (that was not connected to the troubles in NI and only 3rd in recent history) was in 2010 when 12 people were killed by a jilted nutter with a shotgun. The only other events I can think of in that time frame are the odd murder/suicide where dad loses the plot and kills his family and himself. Even then, none of those would fit into the numbers the site the study linked to referenced, maybe they mixed up the UK data with another EU state? Who knows...

Going for another biased source of data we can see that the US had 4 mass shootings (4 or more killed) in the first 45 days of 2018. If you redefine a mass shooting as people injured, but not killed I'm not surprised the anti-gun loby are having a field day, the numbers are depressing. These won't feature in the previous study you linked to if brought up to date if they were gang related though but shocking (to me) all the same: www.gunviolencearchive.org...



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 06:06 AM
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a reply to: BigLes

Gang crime makes up 48% of violent crime in the US. That is just mind blowing. And people are worried about school shootings....?



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 06:50 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Because addressing gang violence in a meaningful way means staring into the abyss and seeing the face of a racist system staring back at us.

You cant fix the damages of generational poverty by continuing policies that led to it. Those policies need to change. In so doing we may also address its effects on southern folk who suffered long under reconstruction. It had to suck to be poor for generations prior to emancipation only to bear the yoke of reconstruction as pennance by proxy for the aristocrats.
edit on 3/28/2018 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 07:06 AM
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a reply to: CharlesT

well you know since the inception of the EU there have been no wars in Europe
and that ended a massive run of wars and conflicts in Europe which had ran non stop since "temps immémorial"
and well you cant say that about any other continent on earth. Where wars are waged on a daily basis.
The standard of living has changed for many millions of Europeans especially our cousins who happened to live behind the iron curtain before being accepted into the EU.

I believe Europe needs to determine a new constitution for each host country
one that puts people and planet before profit , one that protects against heavy indsutrialisation and corporatisation
and heavily regulates banking and ensures that no company or body can lobby to change laws to make money
one that doesnt have career politicians and one that has a system of governance based on experts in their fields of study sitting on a panel that rotates



edit on 28-3-2018 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)




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