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1791... Time for a change?

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posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 04:51 AM
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a reply to: Krakatoa

My main question was that the Amendants leaves room for definition and therefore is changeable. You don't need semi automatics or Automatics to protect yourselves. And like the OP asked. Why won't you just change your gun laws and regulate them heavier through heavier licensing and the requirement to take gun education? Taking dangerous weapons away from citizens is different to the right to bear arms. Although you seem to be one sided in your veiws that that Amendants terminologies are broad. In saying what you said they could also be determined that They used Broad wording so if the need arose they could certainly out law some weapons without impeding on your right to Bear Arms. As you said. It doesn't state what arms and can be defined as is needed.




posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 04:54 AM
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originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: Lagomorphe

I fly into Bordeaux when we visit. We went to that monster sand dune there. last time I thought I was going to have to be airlifted out trying to climb back up it!

I will deffo message you. I haven't done that on here before so will have to figure that one out. Our region makes this stuff called Pineau, of which I have great affection. It's a cross between white wine and Cognac.


Ahhhh La dune du Pilat... People actually skied down that thing this winter!... Snow in Bordeaux...

I have yomped up that thing a few times myself too.

I know Pineau de Charentes very well... have a couple of bottles here in my wine cellar.

To message just answer the white envelope on the right hand side of your screen (I will send you a message)

Kindest respects

Lags



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 04:54 AM
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originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: Lagomorphe

I own/ have owned several guns over the years and for me, I despise some city dwelling yahoo telling me I cant have something that was promised to be 200+ years ago. It is something that is just ingrained and not easily changed. That is not to say that certain changes dont need to happen. I personally don't see why a person needs a 50 round clip with a gun modified to shoot 3 round bursts. As a fellow gun owner/lover I feel I have a right to say that.


That's what most of us want, sensible restrictions, we realise disarming America would be both impossible and un-American but sensible changes to allow sensible gun ownership.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 04:57 AM
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a reply to: djz3ro

Sure, its a fear, but one has to be careful when using that term around us yanks when using it in the same sentence as guns. We associate it with cowardice and that is when you get the instant negative blowback. It's a powerful and emotive subject, which is why legislators rarely touch it with any serious fortitude.
I wish we were this passionate about our 4th amendment rights, which the Patriot Act has subverted, but thats another thread.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 05:04 AM
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a reply to: djz3ro

The likelyhood of a kid being killed in a school shooting? 1 in 2.2 million. The likely hood of dying from a lightning strike? 1 in 700,000. If a kid has that fear, it's due to the sentimentalization by the media.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 05:04 AM
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a reply to: lakenheath24

I don't think that's an American thing, I think that's a guy thing, took me a while to acceot that it's OK to be afraid sometimes, though I actually fear very little.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 05:10 AM
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a reply to: djz3ro

This is where I find it strange. You say this is what "most of us want". We just dont get why the rest of the world seems to be so fascinated by what we see as an internal problem. I think others might take that (rightly or wrongly) as a foreigner trying to reshape a certain document we hold dear. I get that you just want us to be more European, but we were raised on Manifest Destiny and conformity is a dirty word to most of us!!!!



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 05:20 AM
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a reply to: Lagomorphe


Count the number of jailed Brits compared to gun killings in the USA and then get back to this thread with statistics.


The numbers will only increase. You're just hitting your stride over the pond.
Most of our gun crime comes from gangs and suicides. Since 1982 just about 800 people have been killed in mass shootings. That's .00002% of the population.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 05:23 AM
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a reply to: djz3ro

Hahaha...I wish I could introduce you to my cousins, Judy and Margaret. Both were upper level managers....millionaires, but you go messin with their guns and you better be ready for a fight. Judy is just itchin to use her tazer on someone!!!

It's not a fear of another person, but concern about someone taking something that isn't theirs to take.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 05:33 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

Yeah, BUT those odds are misleading. Those odds change greatly when comparing say Miami, Florida, to Marysville, Ohio.

Enforcing current laws, raising age limits on handgun purchases to 21, and controlling the second-hand market are sensible things that shouldn't panic anyone. You can even restrict ammo sales to people over 21. Oh, and for gods sake tie mental health conditions into the national database so we can restrict sales to people on psych drugs.

I got caught up in the change from buying beer from 18 to 21, and it sucked, but in the end it didn't really alter my life.

The above proposals do not affect the 2nd amendment either.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 06:12 AM
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originally posted by: slipdigskywalker
Gday long time lurker. I joned to ask the Americans where in the Amendments it says "Bear Arms" Means the right to military style semi autos and Automatics?

Also why would taking the more deadly weapons out of the hands of everyday citizens be against the amendments if you were still allowed ownership of a bolt loaded style weapon?

Why don't you just control your guns better with more restriction or harder and more education about responsible gun ownership?


Where in the amendment does it say only muskets? The amendment is to allow people to defend themselves against threats foreign and domestic, at its heart. It says arms, and was left to say arms, because some had the foresight to understand that there was a time when only a myriad of melee weapons existed, then came the bows and crossbows, trebuchets and catapults, and then guns. They understood that weapons would evolve, even if they didn't know how.

ETA: And I would suggest reading up on US gun laws, and the process to purchase one, then tell us what more can be done.
edit on 27-3-2018 by Wardaddy454 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 07:01 AM
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a reply to: lakenheath24

Sure, odds change based on the surrounding circumstances. That doesn't discount that the whole of the US experienced ~1800 lightning deaths over the same time period as it experienced 800 mass shooting deaths.

Raising age limits to buy ammo is absurd. Why should an 18 year old be able to buy a gun, but be unable to buy bullets? Are they allowed to reload?
Handguns aren't used in mass shootings very often, so why are you targeting handguns?
Good luck getting people to go to the doctor for treatment of a mental illness if they fear he can take their guns away, which is why most psychologists oppose such a rule. I say, just lock them up. Let their doctor commit them. If you can't be trusted with a weapon, you can't be trusted to roam through society freely. But then the ACLU goes crazy.

Your proposals absolutely affect the second amendment. But more importantly, they solve zero problems with mass shootings or even homicide. These mass shooters have all obtained their guns either illegally or when it should have been illegal, but the people that were supposed to report it, didn't. All these proposals do is satisfy emotional needs of the "do something!" crowd.
edit on 27-3-2018 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 07:05 AM
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a reply to: Wardaddy454

Federalist 46 (the federalist papers) would also help in understanding the context behind the 2nd amendment.



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 07:35 AM
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originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: djz3ro

This is where I find it strange. You say this is what "most of us want". We just dont get why the rest of the world seems to be so fascinated by what we see as an internal problem. I think others might take that (rightly or wrongly) as a foreigner trying to reshape a certain document we hold dear. I get that you just want us to be more European, but we were raised on Manifest Destiny and conformity is a dirty word to most of us!!!!







I think you'll find many of us foreigners are quite fond of you yanks and just don't like seeing the negative side to the gun culture, Americans do everything bigger and louder than anyone else, that's part of what makes America so awesome, it's just in the gun case we clash on the bigger is better part....



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 07:46 AM
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This article is definately worth a read :

I have copied the opening part of the article below but the full story is pretty interesting in my point of view :

As an American living in Zurich, I’ve watched news cycle after news cycle reporting mass shootings, domestic violence-related homicides, and accidental gun deaths in the United States. While the issue of gun violence has impacted every American in some way, I have had a more close-up view than most.

Although these days I work in academia, I was previously a police officer in a large city in the western US. I am also a gun owner and a liberal member of the Democratic Party, facts that many Americans consider mutually exclusive. I carried a gun every day as part of my job and routinely witnessed gun violence in the form of assaults, homicides, and suicides. I still have two guns (locked in a safe back in the US) and a host of friends working in law enforcement. I understand both sides of this highly politicized debate, and I know that there are ways to decrease gun violence other than the zero-sum options typically presented to the American public.

Full article here : www.swissinfo.ch...

Kindest respects

Lags
edit on 27-3-2018 by Lagomorphe because: Crap grammar



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: Lagomorphe

The second amendment isn’t for hunting



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 08:28 AM
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I see your in France......How many wars has France ever won ? I believe you all would be eating bratwurst and driving Volkswagons if not for the USA and their mean old guns. Let your government suppress YOUR people and keep your ideas limited to France. For the record I wouldn't have let the Muslims move in and then take over. That's your countries problem, not mine. But yet you all in other countries can't shut the f up about the 2nd Amendment rights of Americans. So, just for you I'm gonna go out today and purchase me a new AR-15....dedicated to you Lagamorphe. Why you may ask ? Because I can.
edit on 27-3-2018 by openyourmind1262 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 08:38 AM
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originally posted by: openyourmind1262
I see your in France......How many wars has France ever won ? I believe you all would be eating bratwurst and driving Volkswagons if not for the USA and their mean old guns. Let your government suppress YOUR people and keep your ideas limited to France. For the record I wouldn't have let the Muslims move in and then take over. That's your countries problem, not mine. But yet you all in other countries can't shut the f up about the 2nd Amendment rights of Americans. So, just for you I'm gonna go out today and purchase me a new AR-15....dedicated to you Lagamorphe. Why you may ask ? Because I can.


Erm, I will correct you there... The USA were not the only allies that helped to liberate France/Europe.

Aaaand... You would be quite surprised at the amount of people here who drive Volkswagen cars... Good quality cars they are too...

As for the Bratwurst : That is consumed alot, especially in the East of France near Strasbourg.

France don't generally go about looking for wars but here a couple of military victories for you : listverse.com...

And my ideas will be shared with whoever I wish.

As has been stated and also clarified by some very polite and tolerant Americans (and non Americans) here on this thread, some of us in other countries do not understand the 2nd amendment and therefore ask questions on forums such as this one in order to become more enlightened and understand the American culture.

That is called part of educating oneself.

Have fun spending your money on a new gun... and have a lovely day too.

Kindest respects

Lags

edit on 27-3-2018 by Lagomorphe because: Phrase changed



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

I dont know why you are focusing on mass shootings, we are talking overall stats and " According to the FBI, in 2014, there were 8,124 total firearm-related homicides in the US, with 5,562 of those attributed to handguns". Ergo why I focused on handguns.

Also "In 2005, the 17 through 24 age group remains significantly over-represented in violent crime statistics, particularly homicides involving firearms.[97] In 2005, 17- through 19-year-olds were 4.3% of the overall population of the U.S.[98] This same age group accounted for 11.2% of those killed in firearm homicides.[99] This age group also accounted for 10.6% of all homicide offenses.[100] The 20- through 24-year-old age group accounted for 7.1% of the population,[98] while accounting for 22.5% of those killed in firearm homicides.[99] The 20 through 24 age group also accounted for 17.7% of all homicide offenses". Ergo, why I focused on a particular age group.


At least I offered a couple ideas for debate while you offered nothing. And you provided zero evidence that my ideas would fail because you are emotional and part of the "do nothing!" crowd. (See what I did there?)



posted on Mar, 27 2018 @ 08:44 AM
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a reply to: openyourmind1262

Jeezus, people like you used to embarrass the hell out of me...well still do. Did you read any of the thread or just skim the OP and burst on the scene like John Freakin Wayne on your high horse? If you had, you would know that Lags is a Brit expat living in France. And don't make me start bringing up Southern stereotypes.




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