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Another Muslim atrocity. Must we embrace the peaceful muslim traditions?

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posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 10:39 PM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Talorc
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

An example of one group is fine, but then again I could just flood this thread with hundreds of examples of violent Islamic groups and individuals. Any rational person would be able to draw the rational conclusion that one of these two religions is more violent than the other.


Are you including wars, homicides, robberies, fights, and all other forms of violence? Because the vast majority of citizens in the West are still Christians. That means the majority of our criminals, pro-war politicians, generals, soldiers, defense contractors, gangs, cartels, mercs, and organized crime are also going to be Christians. As are the majority of our police, whom killed roughly 1,000 Americans last year. As are the majority of the American citizens who commit the 10s of thousands of homicides and manslaughters every year.

I always see people overlook stuff like that, as if a drone strike or missile barrage carried out by a Christian soldier somehow doesn't count. Don't people brag about how "successful" our wars are by bringing up the death tolls? As in, we overwhelmingly defeated Iraq because we killed so many more of their fighters? Why don't those acts of violence count when determining which religion may or may not be the most violent?

For the record, I think it's a stupid argument either way because people in general are pretty violent. There's violence in Jewish-majority Israel, violence in Hindu-majority India, violence in Buddhist-majority Myanmar, violence in Muslim majority countries, and violence in Christian majority countries. But if you're going to argue that one religion is supposedly more or less violent than the others, we'd have to look at all acts of violence committed by practitioners of those religions and then compare those stats. And that includes wars, homicides, bar fights and fights at nightclubs, domestic disputes, assassinations, riots, child abuse, spousal abuse, school shootings, robberies, etc.

LAnd like I just said, it's a stupid argument either way. But it's also ironic having this conversation while being in a Christian-majority country that supposedly has a "war based economy" that supposedly needs perpetual war just to stay economically afloat. But somehow those wars, occupations, coups, "regime changes", and "military interventions" don't count as violence?

Ok, I'm getting bored w/this now. I think I'll actually get back to work, lol.


Vast majority are Christians?

What planet are you coming from...not even close anywhere...lefties have made sure to rid the VAST MAJORITY... IF their ever really WAS a majority.




posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 10:44 PM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Nowhere in the Qur'an does it say that it's our job to convince nonbelievers of our beliefs.

Maybe not, but what does the Qur'an say about non-believers, or people say, "Actually, I have a new word from God, a new prophecy. Islam *isn't* the last and final word from God".

What does Islam say about the person who claims that truth?

(facepalm) What's the point in me responding to you when you guys literally aren't reading my posts anyway? You're asking me "what does the Qur'an say about non-believers" even though I literally posted the entire Surah (109) where God commands us to respond a certain way to non-believers. The name of the Surah even translates into "The Disbelievers/Unbelievers/Non-believers" so newbs can skim the Qur'an's table of contents and read it for themselves.


So it is like christianity where you ignore or pretend to ignore certain verses in favor of others?

A vast mishmash of books written by various authors who all disagree with one another and mistranslations abound?

These religions cannot lead us anywhere...but away from ACTUAL TRUTH.

How things work..how things SHOULD and COULD be are scarce and largely buried and ignored.

Changes are being made now, though...



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 11:03 PM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: RomeByFire

I provided a thread with like a hundreds of fact. Cant wait for you to come and debunk it.



Don't hold your breath.

Don't care for alternative facts.



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: RomeByFire

YOu mean facts contrary to your indoctrination? Just keep those blinders on bebe.




posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 01:20 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

are there any other world religions that prescribe issuing a fatwa against heretics?



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 05:29 AM
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originally posted by: tribal
a reply to: kaylaluv

are there any other world religions that prescribe issuing a fatwa against heretics?


Fatwas are just rulings. Only the followers of the specific authority who issues the fatwa feel obligated to follow them. A group of imams in a town can make a ruling and other Muslims in the same town may have no obligation to accept their decision. It's literally no different than when a Christian leader declares that pokemon is evil:

Or that rock music is evil:

Just because a religious figure makes a declaration, that doesn't mean that the other practitioners of that religion give a crap about it. And that doesn't even go into the obvious differences between denominations and their interpretations, which lead to completely different rulings about the same subjects.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 05:43 AM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

I completely agree -- just because some authoritative figure says X is bad, does not mean people have to act on it.

However, it does seem that in the Muslim world, people seem to be more ready to act on such decrees than other religious faiths.

No, I'm not saying Christian or Jews are "better". I know morons in those faiths also do terrible things because they think they are right. But so far, to date, in the Western world, there are more acts of terror caused by people of the Musli faith following holy decrees or 'teachings' they learn from their unholy leaders.

I'm curious to know why that is the case -- that such fatwas or decrees seem to be more readily adopted by people of the Islamic faith who *do* actually carry them out? Like threatening to kill publicists who publish pictures of Mohammed.

When people mock or threaten other faiths, yes people get offended and annoyed, maybe punch someone in the face. But when Islam is insulted, it threatens and, more importantly, it carries out its threat of violence. Why is that?



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 05:46 AM
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Some cultures need to be brought into the 21st Century . "By hook or crook" . They are centuries behind the times.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 06:11 AM
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a reply to: ParasuvO

What are you talking about? Be specific. I feel like a bunch of you internet experts need to go back and learn the basics, so here you go.

1. The Qur'an is nothing like the Bible.

2. Not a single book in the New or Old Testament/Covenant is in the Qur'an.

3. The Qur'an is only around 78,000 words or so. The King James version of the Bible is around 10 times that length (if I remember correctly). To put that into context, all but 1 or 2 Harry Potter books are longer than the Qur'an.

4. The Qur'an isn't divided into books or chapters.

5. The Qur'an is divided into separate revelations called Surahs and Surats.

6. Other than the 1st Surah (the "Fatiha"), the Qur'an is generally arranged in order from longest revelation to shortest revelation.

7. That's because we strive to memorize the Qur'an, so it's easier to start by memorizing the shortest revelations first. Some are just a few sentences long, like the one I mentioned in previous posts.

8. The context of the Qur'an is not in chronological order.

9. In fact, the Qur'an isn't even written as a series of historical accounts like the various books in the Bible.

10. The Qur'an's revelations can consist of specific commands to us (like the one I mentioned), explanations with small amounts of historical events to reinforce a point, commands to the Prophet and his followers at the time, and more, all in the same revelation. It also can list things that are forbidden, things that are discouraged but not forbidden, things that are required, things that are encouraged but not required, things that are allowed but neither encouraged nor discouraged, and food for thought.

11. Everything in the Qur'an builds on itself which is why it's important to read things with context. For example, one passage gives a brief explanation of the few foods that are forbidden to us. Then another passage in another revelation will repeat that previous list of forbidden foods, yet go into more detail on specific killing methods that are forbidden to us.

If you try to cherry pick single passages from the Qur'an the same way you do from the Bible, you'll get completely wrong answers. It's like reading a Harry Potter book, seeing a single sentence or paragraph of dialogue against "muggles", and then using that paragraph to conclude that the author is a bigot against Homo Sapiens. (Though to be fair, the Bible is typically like that, as well.)

That's why I actually link to the Qur'an when I quote from it, so that people can read all of the passages in the Surah to see what it's actually saying. And that's why I called out that other dude for posting some jumbled paraphrasing that deliberately left out the middle of one passage and also left out the previous passage, all of which would've shown that the context was nothing like what he was trying to imply.

Anything else? Oh, as for translations, the Qur'an was actually strongly discouraged from being translated for a long time. People would instead learn Quranic Arabic and then read it in its original form. Even now, "translations" are usually called "interpretations" because there is always something lost in translation.

Well now, anyone can try to run it through a translator and claim it to be a "translation", which is why people should list the translation they're using. Over my few years on ATS, I've pointed this out repeatedly when some people would copy and paste the exact same list of "horrible crap in the Qur'an" from the exact same website. I'd compare it to officially recognized translations and see that the source they copied had paraphrased some things, left out other things, and was also from an unlisted translation that had an obvious negative bias in their phrasings. That's why I always point out which translation I'm using when I quote it, so that people can go back and check for themselves.

And yes, even some officially recognized translations can have differences. For example, the actual Qur'an doesn't list Jerusalem by name even once. But some translations will have editor's notes where the editor will add Jerusalem in parenthesis in specific parts so the reader knows the context for a specific place or event. Well, there's one newer translation (I think Salih but I'm not sure) that adds Jerusalem by name in the text without putting it parenthesis and without mentioning that the editor added it!

In fact, virtually everything you see in parenthesis in a Qur'anic translation is added by the editors of that specific translation. This can change the text considerably and this is usually where specific denominations or schools of thought have added "clarifications" to specific passages because those are the passages they're using to justify specific Hadith, specific rulings, etc. Or to be blunt, you can compare 4 different translations and see "clarifications" in parenthesis in completely different places, which is an easy way to tell when something's been added.

Qur'anic translations can also be as diverse as biblical translations in that some are incredibly easy to read while others will break down the lexicon of every single phrase, making it more of an academic work than something you'd just sit down and read. I usually link to the Pickthall translation because it seems to be the easiest version for native English speakers to understand and because it only adds "clarifications" in parenthesis.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 06:31 AM
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a reply to: noonebutme

Think that through for a second. There are at least 1.8 billion Muslims in the world now, making that close to 20-25% of the entire world's population. If even 1% of Muslims did what you said, then that would be 18 million murders and attacks against non-Muslims every time there was a perceived insult to Islam. Clearly that's not happening.

The US alone has several million Muslims, including around one million African American Muslims like myself*. If even 1% of us really believed in violence because of insults, then there would literally be 34,000 plus acts of violence by American Muslims every time some "Draw Muhammad" event took place. But clearly that's not the case, either.

However, it also helps to note the context for something. Western countries like the US, UK, and France have led major wars against Muslim majority countries for decades. And the UK & France have been directly involved in the Middle East since the early and mid 1900s, since Lawrence of Arabia, and since the disastrous Sykes-Picot Agreement that literally carved up the region into separate European vassal states.

So when these same countries that then joined with the US in the War on Terror start overtly insulting Islam and advertising it through media campaigns, it's going to piss off a lot of Muslims. But even then, the stats that I mentioned above still apply, meaning that for all of the rehashing of old wounds, not even 1% of Muslims act out on those feelings. In other words, you're taking isolated incidences of actual violence and acting like they represent the actions of the whole, which they clearly don't.

* I put the asterisk there because sources vary widely on the number of Muslims here. That's because different organizations and cultures have different conditions for a person to be considered a Muslim. Some count everyone in a household that's headed by Muslims. Some don't count some black Muslims as "Muslims", particularly members of the Nation of Islam , groups like the 5 Percenters, and a bunch of other black Muslims in general who don't follow specific traditions. And in other Muslim communities, a person isn't counted as a Muslim until they've gone through puberty, been circumcised, and voluntarily taken Shahada in front of a set number of other recognized Muslims.

So I used the lowest estimate I could find (this one from Pew Research), which listed around 3.45 million Muslims in America in 2017.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 07:10 AM
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originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: enlightenedservant

I completely agree -- just because some authoritative figure says X is bad, does not mean people have to act on it.

However, it does seem that in the Muslim world, people seem to be more ready to act on such decrees than other religious faiths.

No, I'm not saying Christian or Jews are "better". I know morons in those faiths also do terrible things because they think they are right. But so far, to date, in the Western world, there are more acts of terror caused by people of the Musli faith following holy decrees or 'teachings' they learn from their unholy leaders.

I'm curious to know why that is the case -- that such fatwas or decrees seem to be more readily adopted by people of the Islamic faith who *do* actually carry them out? Like threatening to kill publicists who publish pictures of Mohammed.

When people mock or threaten other faiths, yes people get offended and annoyed, maybe punch someone in the face. But when Islam is insulted, it threatens and, more importantly, it carries out its threat of violence. Why is that?


Because they get paid to kill people.

Let's be real.




posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 07:10 AM
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originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: intrptr

If its a different god then its the devil!


You do realize that makes Muslim crude oil evil, too?



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 07:20 AM
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a reply to: face23785




For the 3rd time in this thread, no one is saying this behavior is exclusive to Muslims. You still can't deny Islamic culture had something to do with this.



Try reading what you are replying too.

Its not hard to understand.




You can call it "regional" all you want, it's still Islamic culture.


you can call it Islamic culture all you want.

Regional culture and certain practices that are still done today pre- date Islam.




The fact that there are other Muslims who don't behave this way doesn't change that.


The fact that other non Muslim do act in the same way in the same region is what makes these types of practices regional and not religious.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 08:01 AM
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originally posted by: InhaleExhale
The fact that other non Muslim do act in the same way in the same region is what makes these types of practices regional and not religious.

"act in the same way" how? Are there arranged marriages for money outside Muslim communities? Genital mutilations?

Funny seeing people try (and fail) to defend Islam here, citing things Christianity has done in the last 1000 years while we are obviously not in any crusade era anymore. Just how much has changed in Islamic communities since then? Yeah.

True that there are several Islamic communities that can be considered 'advanced' (not progressive), but look at the vast majority of the world where Islam is in power, then give me the trash statistical claim that "if only 1% of muslims murdered the world would end" BS. Look no further than Syria, is anyone even bothering to count the casualties anymore?
Rape gangs everywhere, violent immigrants that run from their failed Islamic countries only to bring the same failing Islam into the west... etc.

First step towards solving a problem is to at-least recognize it. Not recognizing that Islam nowdays is on a social warpath against the rest of the world (bar Russia maybe for obvious reasons), will lead to an inevitable religious war.
edit on 26-3-2018 by 1337Kph because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 08:14 AM
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a reply to: 1337Kph




"act in the same way" how? Are there arranged marriages for money outside Muslim communities? Genital mutilations?



Yes.




First step towards solving a problem is to at-least recognize it.


yes,

do you recognize the hatred you have in your heart?

If so, well done, its the first step to solving your issues.





Rape gangs everywhere, violent immigrants.



I know,

humanity wouldn't know of these things had it not been for Islam, right?






posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 08:39 AM
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originally posted by: InhaleExhale
Yes.

No, arranged marriages are not a cultural thing on any other sect other than primitive islanders and Islam.


yes,

do you recognize the hatred you have in your heart?

If so, well done, its the first step to solving your issues.

Nice try mixing up emotions with facts. This is not your liberal arts class, so I'm afraid it's not gonna work.


humanity wouldn't know of these things had it not been for Islam, right?

If we're talking about modern times and not centuries ago, yes, it is almost exclusive to Islam.

Care to name a place even remotely close to Syria? Is there an equivalent of ISIS? Hezbollah?
Random killings of Europeans as a religious holy war ideology with any other religion?
Asking those questions does not mean I have hate for Islam.
I have hate for people who choose to ignore reality, insist Islam is on par with nowdays' society (ANY other religion), only because they are either 1. part of Islam, or 2. Make it a goal not to become a "racist" *GASP*.
edit on 26-3-2018 by 1337Kph because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 08:49 AM
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a reply to: Violater1

Meanwhile, the latest news:

Man gets 60 years in prison for trying to sell 4-year-old daughter for sex



www.cbsnews.com...

Yeah, the religion of Pedo aka Christianity is at it again.
edit on 26-3-2018 by mekhanics because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 08:54 AM
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The left would like you to ignore these items but even they can't expect you to accept them..

Selling your daughter for 20 grand, what lovely people, obviously Shariah followers and what honour is there in killing your own, utterly disgusting.

The world needs to start making it clear what you think of the Radicals and the Shariah followers, neither of these types of Muslims are compatible with any society but their own and even then they kill each other. These that follow this so called Shariah law (the word means law) are following some parts of the Quran and mostly man made hadiths by so called Scholars. The use and control of woman is foremost in these 'laws'. The young are now being indoctrinated in this belief and its leading to confrontations, sometime with these people but increasingly its the radicals confronting others to abuse them. I've seen a new found arrogance mostly in the Pakistani youth, a belief that them and their religion is better than anyone else, this I've seen at the mosque and now its spreading slowly in to every day life, I had a car driver very deliberately cut me up and when I shouted what an idiot he was I was presented with the infamous ISIS finger and a smile.

it seems little but its part of this arrogance, around here we have even had ISIS flags on cars (and yes I do know the difference between a blessing and the ISIS flag).

This way of life that these people that the OP spoke about is not compatible with Western life, its so savage I'm stunned they survived their own internal wars but now more and more the radicals and extremists are bringing what they did in their countries here and I can't forsee how the Western people are going to cope with a rise in the extremists, we are importing them in droves, yes there's ordinary Muslims in there who will just be peaceful and practice a very normal ordinary version of Islam (contrary to belief there is an ordinary version) but the legions of young males seen daily on these boats around Turkey etc are not coming here for the good of the country they arrive in.

People have to start separating the good and the bad and act on the bad, they rely on us to lump all Muslims in together so they can hide, that must stop, its needed for ALL of us, so many Muslim immigrants left to get away from this lifestyle and now its following them.

FGM, Honour Killing, Kuffar killing is not a right in our countries, some would fight to make it a right...



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 08:54 AM
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a reply to: 1337Kph


No, arranged marriages are not a cultural thing on any other sect other than primitive islanders and Islam.


You are so wrong on this claim. Arranged marriages are common in places like China and India. They're not unheard of in Korea and Japan. Hindus the world over still see it as a common practice. Orthodox Jews have a form of arranged marriages where the parents will hire a matchmaker for the child. And while it may not be a common practice for Christians in the West there are a number of examples of it in the Bible.



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: mekhanics
a reply to: Violater1

Meanwhile, the latest news:

Man gets 60 years in prison for trying to sell 4-year-old daughter for sex



www.cbsnews.com...

Yeah, the religion of Pedo aka Christianity is at it again.


Nothing in that article suggests he's Christian.

You're assuming white skin = Christianity?



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