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School shooting deaths don't add up. What's the number!?

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posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 10:55 AM
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When the media counts any shooting that takes place anywhere even remotely near a school as a "school shooting" is simple to see where they get their numbers. A man committed suicide in his house but because his property is next to a CLOSED school the local media lists it as a school shooting.




posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
I have to ask this because I'm getting serious dissonance between the media and protesters and the numbers I've researched - but are the numbers I posted for the school shootings what others have heard? I always hear things like "a school shooting every other day" or "18 already this year" but it is always surrounded by nebulous terms, facts and statistics.


They're not talking about "killed" or "mass shootings." They're talking about injury AND death. Most of the time these don't make national news... you have to look for local news.

Frankly, even one child shot by somebody (even if in an after school fight on school grounds between students over someone's boyfriend) is one child too many.
so let’s start banning things based on the amount of people killed by them. Guns would be near the bottom of that list.

Alcohol, tobacco, and cars, should be your focus if what you are really worried about are people’s lives.

And facts.


Have you looked at the statistics? Guns are the third leading cause of death in children.

And we regulate alcohol and tobacco. We regulate cars more strongly than guns. Deaths from car accidents have dropped dramatically since we instituted seat belts and crash tests and so forth.

We regulate food safety rules and a lot of other things for the public good. I have read many responses indicating that the best route here is to arm people and train them in gun safety. So I have a counter question - if you arm everyone in the inner cities of Chicago and give them gun training, how is that going to stop a kid from taking the weapon he was trained at to school to put an end to a grudge?

From where I sit, it looks like the kid will simply be more effective in their assassination attempt since he will know how to properly hold the gun and fire it and how to reload quickly and will have learned how and where to get a bump stock for fun quick firing.



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

Depends on where you get those statistics and what metrics they use, I remember back during the brady bill discussion the brady foundation changed the definition of what a kid was to include anyone still on their parents insurance so birth to what 24 yrs of age, that will skew things quite a bit.

Do they count suicides, gang on gang violence, or just a bad kid with a gun shooting innocents all those can adjust the numbers up and down.



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 02:25 PM
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Whenever people want to take away our American liberties, they have to lie to do it, because the truth is what preserves our liberties.



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 02:31 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I started a thread similar to this last month. The bottom line is that school shootings are relatively small compared to the number of children who are killed by guns every year all over the United States.

1300 children under the age of 18 are murdered by a gun in the United States every year.


Of those 1300, it would be interesting to know how many of them were killed by assault weapons.

It seems to me this protest seems somehow orchestrated. Much emotion but no specifics.



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 04:23 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

80% of all gun homicides are by gang violence. So the vast majority of gun violence is done by criminals. How will regulating firearms more have any difference if the perpetrators are already criminals and would be barred from obtaining
weapons legally anyway?

www.cdc.gov...

And in the last 25 years there are an average of 10 students killed per year in school shootings, of course no one wants any children killed but portraying it as a epidemic of gun violence is dishonest. Gun violence in schools has actually gone down.
edit on 25-3-2018 by drock905 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: Salander

And how many of those 1300 are involved in gangs? How many are accidental and how many are suicides?



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 04:33 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Byrd

Depends on where you get those statistics and what metrics they use, I remember back during the brady bill discussion the brady foundation changed the definition of what a kid was to include anyone still on their parents insurance so birth to what 24 yrs of age, that will skew things quite a bit.

Do they count suicides, gang on gang violence, or just a bad kid with a gun shooting innocents all those can adjust the numbers up and down.



46% of child gun violence is from “children” aged 18-19. Last time I checked those were adults.



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 05:14 PM
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originally posted by: drock905
a reply to: Byrd

80% of all gun homicides are by gang violence. So the vast majority of gun violence is done by criminals. How will regulating firearms more have any difference if the perpetrators are already criminals and would be barred from obtaining
weapons legally anyway?


Where do you get the statistics that it's due to gang related activity? Not being hostile here... would just like to see the data, please.



And in the last 25 years there are an average of 10 students killed per year in school shootings, of course no one wants any children killed but portraying it as a epidemic of gun violence is dishonest. Gun violence in schools has actually gone down.


I don't recall a lot of gun related violence in schools when my kids were growing up - and I'd sure have remembered that. Metal detectors for weapons in schools came into vogue after my kids graduated.

But (as I've said before) we're not talking just deaths but injury, suicide, and threats of violence. Yes, there were gangs in the schools when my kids were there (and in my schools.) Yes there were deaths back then, too and incidents like Charles Whitman's mass shooting. But campus and school shootings were rare and more often involved an estranged spouse killing another spouse (or so my memory says.)

The CDC is not allowed to keep more detailed information on firearm discharges and injuries and deaths. I don't know if it would help your arguments or hurt them if we knew specific details... but they are forbidden to collect that as of now.



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 05:21 PM
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originally posted by: drock905
The 18 shootings is propaganda

www.usatoday.com...
“In eight of the 18 cases originally counted by Everytown, no one was injured or killed. Two were suicides.”


That's an op-ed piece and the author didn't link anything to show that their statements were correct.

Now, you may disagree with the site I'm going to link here but this website scrapes data from news reports - and there's a LOT of firearm incidents every single day. I rather like this site because it separates out injuries, deaths, accidental discharge, defensive discharge of weapons, officer involvement, and home invasions.

We're three months into the year and to me the map shows that we've got a huge problem.



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 05:23 PM
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originally posted by: notsure1
I'm stealing this one ......... Thanks..



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 05:26 PM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Brilliant thread. Fantastic work, this should be all over the internet. David Hogg and his band of merry genders will not enjoy your work.




posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: Byrd

So the 80% apparently is just Chicago, After further digging the 80% is incorrect as a whole, but then 92-96% of all gang crime is done with a gun and in some Cities is more then half of the crime?

The more digging into stats the more confusing it becomes, it doesn’t seem as if there really are 100% accurate reporting using the same methodology. Anti gun, Pro gun, federal government, local government all have different definitions of what they factor into the reporting and a lot of reports contradict each other.

The National Center has their stats as such

www.nationalgangcenter.gov...



From 2007 through 2012, a sizeable majority (more than 80 percent) of respondents provided data on gang-related homicides in their jurisdictions. The total number of gang homicides reported by respondents in the NYGS sample averaged nearly 2,000 annually from 2007 to 2012. During roughly the same time period (2007 to 2011), the FBI estimated, on average, more than 15,500 homicides across the United States (www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1). These estimates suggest that gang-related homicides typically accounted for around 13 percent of all homicides annually. Highly populated areas accounted for the vast majority of gang homicides: nearly 67 percent occurred in cities with populations over 100,000, and 17 percent occurred in suburban counties in 2012. The number of gang-related homicides decreased 2 percent from 2010 to 2011 and then increased by 28 percent from 2011 to 2012 in cities with populations over 100,000. In a typical year in the so-called “gang capitals” of Chicago and Los Angeles, around half of all homicides are gang-related; these two cities alone accounted for approximately one in four gang homicides recorded in the NYGS from 2011 to 2012. Among agencies serving rural counties and smaller cities that reported gang activity, around 75 percent reported zero gang-related homicides. Five percent or less of all gang homicides occurred in these areas annually. Overall, these results demonstrate conclusively that gang violence is greatly concentrated in the largest cities across the United States.


www.cdc.gov...




Key findings include: In Los Angeles and Long Beach, less than 5 percent of all homicides were associated with known drug trade or use. In Oakland, 12.5 percent of gang homicides compared to 16.5 percent of nongang homicides involved drug trade / use; in Oklahoma City, 25.4 percent of gang homicides compared to 22.8 percent of nongang homicides involved drug trade / use. Newark was the only city with a significantly higher proportion of gang homicides (20 percent) vs. nongang homicides (6 percent) that involved drug trade / use. There was a significantly higher proportion of gang homicide victims who were 15-19 years old in all cities; in general, gang homicide victims were younger than nongang homicide victims. Approximately 80 percent of all homicide victims were male in each city; however, Los Angeles, Newark, and Oklahoma City still reported significantly higher proportions of male victims in gang homicide incidents compared with nongang homicide incidents. In all cities, 92–96 percent of gang homicide incidents involved firearms, compared with firearm involvement in 57–86 percent of nongang related homicides. Drive-by shootings were more likely to contribute to gang homicides than other types of homicide in Los Angeles and Oklahoma City (24 percent of gang homicides in each city were from drive-by shootings). In Los Angeles and Oakland, a significantly higher proportion of gang victims were Hispanic. In Oklahoma City, a significantly higher proportion of gang victims were non-Hispanic black compared with nongang victims. Less than 6 percent victims of gang and nongang homicides were bystanders. In Los Angeles and Long Beach, gang homicides accounted for the majority of homicides among 15-24-year-olds (61 and 69 percent, respectively). A significantly smaller proportion of gang than nongang homicides were associated with other crimes in progress in Los Angeles, Long Beach, and Oakland (ranging from 0-3 percent for gang homicides versus 9-15 percent for nongang).




edit on 25-3-2018 by drock905 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-3-2018 by drock905 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-3-2018 by drock905 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 06:12 PM
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double post
edit on 25-3-2018 by drock905 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 08:11 PM
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originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: drock905
The 18 shootings is propaganda

www.usatoday.com...
“In eight of the 18 cases originally counted by Everytown, no one was injured or killed. Two were suicides.”


That's an op-ed piece and the author didn't link anything to show that their statements were correct.

Now, you may disagree with the site I'm going to link here but this website scrapes data from news reports - and there's a LOT of firearm incidents every single day. I rather like this site because it separates out injuries, deaths, accidental discharge, defensive discharge of weapons, officer involvement, and home invasions.

We're three months into the year and to me the map shows that we've got a huge problem.


That's the point of the Op though, they scrape data based on news reports. If the news is skewing the stats, how is it reliable?



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 08:42 PM
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over a period of time, more people are born, more crazy people added to this world = more people dying by the hands of these crazy people. Nothing out of the norm, just an increase in population means an increase of things to happen.
edit on 25-3-2018 by jidnum because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 10:12 PM
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a reply to: DigginFoTroof

You certainly did a lot of work there. We appreciate the effort you put into this. Star and Flag.



posted on Mar, 25 2018 @ 11:48 PM
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originally posted by: Sillyolme
The first school shooting in the U.S. was in 1764. Before we were a country.
One really weird shooting took place in Florence Alabama in August of 1856 where a school master had a pet sparrow. He had warned his students that if any of them harmed the bird he would kill them. Apparently a student stepped on the bird and killed it. The teacher took the student into a back room and strangled him. Upon hearing of the crime the students father then shot the school master.

This is why I didn't let my boys volunteer to keep the class mascot during school holidays.

One thing I noticed was a steady escalation in school violence over time. Where it was once in a decade in our early years became four in one month in Sept 2006. In 2008 There was eleven school shootings.


Source?



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 12:16 AM
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Just a thought...it occurred to me after I seen the post with Hitler and his theory in it....with all the numbers being exasperated do you wonder if it has something to do with the theory that the US elections were tampered with by Russia....You know maybe coersion tactics to get the people to demand gun restriction? ....If they did tamper with the elections couldn't they coerse the people into the idea of gun control?

edit on 26-3-2018 by erinfabish because: mispell



posted on Mar, 26 2018 @ 01:00 AM
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originally posted by: erinfabish
Just a thought...it occurred to me after I seen the post with Hitler and his theory in it....with all the numbers being exasperated do you wonder if it has something to do with the theory that the US elections were tampered with by Russia....You know maybe coersion tactics to get the people to demand gun restriction? ....If they did tamper with the elections couldn't they coerse the people into the idea of gun control?


That wasn't their target, though -- and you sound as if you're unaware that the issue of gun control has been a hot button aggravation for a long time... before the Internet. The Brady Amendment was the first strong effort in my memory (I know there were earlier ones, but that's the one that stood out for me) and then Gifford's efforts to try and advocate for stronger laws. There was also an effort to ban hollow point bullets at one time... and more.

So this isn't new. And it has always had support. After every mass shooting within the past 50 years or so (at least since the time of Charles Whitman and the University of Texas tower sniping) has been followed by efforts to control some part of what made the killer's mission successful. However, the tide was turning by the 2011 shooting of Giffords and people at her rally. The pushback against the efforts to control guns grew stronger since then.

So no. It's not Russia. It's driven in part by the NRA and donations to congresscritters and local lawmakers who support them.

These things go in cycles... you have a move toward one extreme point and then something happens and the pendulum swings back. Grieving parents (and concert goers and a lot of other people) haven't been able to change things. But with this last shooing, a Tipping Point has been reached.

Expect change. I suspect it won't go the way either of us wants but change is in the wind.



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