School shooting deaths don't add up. What's the number!?

I was trying to look at some numbers and did a search of the numbers of students/teachers killed since 2000 and found an entirely different story than what I have heard in the media and by protesters, off by a factor of 2800%.

I heard the number "7,000" as the number of kids killed in US schools since Columbine, and that was an alarming rate and seemed rather high from my memory. This number was spouted by a number of protesters (talking about the March for our Lives) and they asked "when is it enough". Well I had to look for the dispersion and I found a very differrent picture. The Washington Post states that almost 250 students and teachers have been killed since 2000.

www.washingtonpost.com...

- I looked at a number of different sources and they all had similar numbers so I ask if anyone has different numbers, please post them.

Now I thought this surely couldn't be the numbers that they were talking about, the 250 over 17.5 years (14 per year average), could it? Now if you look at the number of kids in the K-12 school system, that is about 50.7 million students so we can guess about 53 million total with students, faculty and staff. That comes out to 1 in 3,786,000 people killed in the school system per year.

nces.ed.gov...

Here are the murder statistics for the top 30 cities in the US for 2015.

bismarcktribune.com... 6

I copied the data (for 25 cities of the 30) so it is easier to see (the page may not load, I had to save the page and view off-line). These are the numbers for 2015 and are the top 25 cities by murder rates in the US. The last number in this list is to give some kind of perspective to the size of the US school system and what it would look like if it had murder rates the same as the per capita of the mentioned city.

The last number in the list is if the city had the population of 53 million (size of US school system), this would be the murder rate that year if using the rate from that city (range of 9,200 - 31,000 students/teachers killed per year)
City - Murders, murders/100,000 citizens, city population, murder rate equated to US school system (if city rate carried over to US school system)
St Louis - 188 --- 59.29/100k --- 317K --- 31,424
Baltimore - 344 --- 55.37/100K --- 621K --- 29,346
Detroit - 295 --- 43.82/100K --- 673K --- 23,224
New Orleans - 164 --- 41.68/100K --- 393K --- 22,185
Birmingham - 79 --- 37.21/100K --- 212K --- 19,674
Jackson, MS - 53 --- 31.08/100K --- 170K --- 16,4762
Baton Rouge - 60, --- 26.23/100k --- 228k --- 13,950
Hartford, CT - 32 --- 25.69/100K --- 124K --- 13,616
Salinas, CA - 40 --- 25.29/100K --- 158K --- 13,404
Milwaukee - 145 --- 24.15/100k --- 600k --- 12,800
Wash DC - 162 --- 24.1/100k --- 672K --- 12,773
Kansas City, MO - 109 --- 23.03/100k --- 472K --- 12,206
Savannah - 54 --- 22.48/100k --- 240k --- 11,914
Cincinnati - 66 --- 22.11/100k --- 298k --- 11,718
West Palm Beach - 22 --- 20.97/100K --- 105K --- 11,114
Memphis - 135 --- 20.52/100k --- 658k --- 10,876
Oakland - 85 --- 20.33/100K --- 420K --- 10,775
San Bernardino - 44 --- 20.26/100k --- 216K --- 10,738
Atlanta - 94 --- 20.23/100k --- 465K --- 10,722
Richmond - 43 --- 19.47/100K --- 221K --- 10,319
Kansas City, KS - 28 --- 18.62/100K --- 150K --- 9,869
Pittsburgh - 57 --- 18.57/100k --- 307K --- 9,842
Dayton - 26 --- 18.48/100K --- 140K --- 9,794
Philadelphia - 280 --- 17.86/100K --- 1,568K --- 9,466
Chicago - 478 --- 17.52/100K --- 2,729K --- 9,286

A large number of these school shootings have two victims and are often linked to "teenage/school relationship issues" such as a girl with a new boyfriend or something similarly related - teen's personal life leaking over into schools. In almost all of these cases the weapon used is not the demonized "assault rifle" but that doesn't fit the narrative. I'm not sure that a shooting of 2 people would validate the protesters in their argument in banning certain weapons or even in tighter gun control.

In the time from 2000 to present, there have been just a couple shy of 500 deaths by dog's in the US, that is almost exactly twice as many killings by dogs as there have been deaths in school shootings in the same time. Last year alone there were 29 deaths by pit bulls, which is 2x the average of (14) people killed in our schools.




This article does a very good job of breaking down the statistics of school shootings over the last quarter century and many other interesting statistics.

nymag.com...

What these number seem to say is that there is clearly NOT an epidemic in school shootings. What we have is an epidemic of media coverage of the ones that occur and a world of social media that repeats the narrative ad-nauseum in order to drum up ratings and to divide people using misguided fear. They (the media) are targeting our youth in order to drive an agenda and are causing mass hysteria where rationale has been thrown in the dumpster. The sensationalism of every event has only made the issue worse and has made it out to be a much larger problem than it appears to be by looking at the numbers. The media does a job of pushing emotion and declaring anyone who opposes them as being evil, heartless, etc but these numbers just don't seem to add up, unless I'm missing something in these numbers.

**Edit - This is a link to school massacres around the world going back to the 1700's. It clearly shows that the US is not alone in this issue.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I started a thread similar to this last month. The bottom line is that school shootings are relatively small compared to the number of children who are killed by guns every year all over the United States.

1300 children under the age of 18 are murdered by a gun in the United States every year.

Verry intresting. great post.
now could you find the figers for other countries?
please.
but add any thing use'd to kill.
becuse in UK guns are very hard to get hold of.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

With the recent stories about firms like Cambridge Analytical, and their boasted ability to create bull# stories, get people to accept false facts, push political agendas, I'd be interested in how many other firms are engaging in similar practices.

a reply to: carewemust

1300 children under the age of 18 are murdered by a gun in the United States every year.

Guns do not murder people, people wielding guns do.

I will also question the word murdered as used in this context.

Were they murdered or did they die. How many of those 1300, assuming that number is correct, because it seems you just plucked it out of midair, were accidental deaths?

You are a better poster than this Care.

P

I have to ask this because I'm getting serious dissonance between the media and protesters and the numbers I've researched - but are the numbers I posted for the school shootings what others have heard? I always hear things like "a school shooting every other day" or "18 already this year" but it is always surrounded by nebulous terms, facts and statistics. From my research, were this any other topic, I would say the protest are most ridiculous in comparison to other similar topics, but if anyone were to point this out they would be branded as heartless, uncaring, evil, etc.

If the numbers I've found (on WaPo non the less, not exactly conservative central) on the sites are correct, then it seems that the public has been buffalo'd into thinking the problem is much larger than it is, and it seems that some legislators have as well.

The thing is, when dealing with an issue such as this, one doesn't want to be to dismissive of it if it is truly a problem, but knowing how the media hypes things (both sides), it's difficult to see if your "side" isn't hiding something which needs brought to light.

If there is some large chunk or catagory that I am missing in this analysis, please let me know so I can factor in the proper numbers and I will look into the numbers of other countries as well.

This page has some very interesesting stat's that go back 300+ years about school massacres across the globe.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

I started a thread similar to this last month. The bottom line is that school shootings are relatively small compared to the number of children who are killed by guns every year all over the United States.

1300 children under the age of 18 are murdered by a gun in the United States every year.

Last year 1824 college students killed by alcohol overdose.

Yep, the numbers really do not add up at all. I looked around myself at various statistics and it appears that these people screaming the loudest about guns being evil are taking the numbers of ALL deaths by guns, including accidental, and conflating that number with school shootings. Nothing else makes sense. And they can get away with that because the average Jane/Joe is not going to dig further. They'll clasp their hands and wring them with anxiety, demanding the government once again take a bit more away from us when the reality is that school shooting deaths are rare.

I can pretty much bet more kids are killed in gang related crossfire in highly gun-controlled cities like Chicago than are murdered by guns at school.

Yeah, the number of people killed in school shootings by spree killers in the last 20 years is almost 3x less than what the state kills with their firearms every year. And many of their victims are unarmed as well. Soon to be many more. Enjoy.

Here’s a breakdown of gun deaths in the USA

33,599 total deaths

21,508 are suicides

11,726 are homicides (roughly 80% are gang related according to the CDC)

546 accidents

268 undetermined

There are roughly 2,200 murders by gun per year in a country of 330 million +

Since 1996 there has been 8 mass shootings at schools aged k-12.

In the last 25 years the average number of children killed at school is 10 per year.

The top 10 cities with gun deaths per capita are

10. Milwaukee WI - 145
9. Salinas Ca - 40
8. Hartford Ct - 32
7. Baton Rouge La - 60
6. Jackson Ms - 53
5. Birmingham Al - 79
4. New Orleans La - 164
3. Detroit MI - 295
2. Baltimore Md - 344
1. ST Louis Mo - 188

The TPTB [the powes that be - a phrase used to refer to those individuals or groups who collectively hold authority over a particular domain] have agendas - And for those who believe in a NWO [New World Order] controlling the world,
One of the agendas is to disarm the civilian population.

Probably the leading NWO country is the UK [England] - Where all it took was 'one' mass shooting by a deranged indiviual
killinga bunch of kids for them to pass draconian gun laws.

Many believe that the American media is strongly influenced, if not controlled, by the NWO elite who face stiff opposition
to gun laws because of the US Constitution and its Second Ammendment.

I'm a news hound - And if you listen to the major broadcast stations [radio, TV, and online] lately you will hear an endless
stream of broadcasts where students are led to believe that 'they are all fighiting for their lives' as if mass shootings
are going on everyday.

When you have an agenda and control the media you will manipulate statistics and reality to suit the agenda.

Welcome to the New World Order !

"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength".
- George Orwell "1984"

originally posted by: drock905
Here’s a breakdown of gun deaths in the USA

33,599 total deaths

21,508 are suicides

11,726 are homicides (roughly 80% are gang related according to the CDC)

546 accidents

268 undetermined

There are roughly 2,200 murders by gun per year in a country of 330 million +

Since 1996 there has been 8 mass shootings at schools aged k-12.

In the last 25 years the average number of children killed at school is 10 per year.

The top 10 cities with gun deaths per capita are

10. Milwaukee WI - 145
9. Salinas Ca - 40
8. Hartford Ct - 32
7. Baton Rouge La - 60
6. Jackson Ms - 53
5. Birmingham Al - 79
4. New Orleans La - 164
3. Detroit MI - 295
2. Baltimore Md - 344
1. ST Louis Mo - 188

if you cite your source, it would help your post bigley.

The first school shooting in the U.S. was in 1764. Before we were a country.
One really weird shooting took place in Florence Alabama in August of 1856 where a school master had a pet sparrow. He had warned his students that if any of them harmed the bird he would kill them. Apparently a student stepped on the bird and killed it. The teacher took the student into a back room and strangled him. Upon hearing of the crime the students father then shot the school master.

This is why I didn't let my boys volunteer to keep the class mascot during school holidays.

One thing I noticed was a steady escalation in school violence over time. Where it was once in a decade in our early years became four in one month in Sept 2006. In 2008 There was eleven school shootings.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Star & Flag for you.

The numbers never add up with these gun grabbers (or leftist in general). This is why I am hesitant to cede any of my gun rights even for common sense measures that I actually agree. When one side is willing to manipulate facts, statistics, and exploit kids to make their point it makes me believe a larger agenda is at work.

School shootings are tragic, but barely register statistically when it comes to gun deaths. The media has a done an excellent job propagandizing and making it seem like they are everyday occurrences.

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
I have to ask this because I'm getting serious dissonance between the media and protesters and the numbers I've researched - but are the numbers I posted for the school shootings what others have heard? I always hear things like "a school shooting every other day" or "18 already this year" but it is always surrounded by nebulous terms, facts and statistics.

They're not talking about "killed" or "mass shootings." They're talking about injury AND death. Most of the time these don't make national news... you have to look for local news.

Frankly, even one child shot by somebody (even if in an after school fight on school grounds between students over someone's boyfriend) is one child too many.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: drock905
Here’s a breakdown of gun deaths in the USA

33,599 total deaths

21,508 are suicides

11,726 are homicides (roughly 80% are gang related according to the CDC)

546 accidents

268 undetermined

There are roughly 2,200 murders by gun per year in a country of 330 million +

Since 1996 there has been 8 mass shootings at schools aged k-12.

In the last 25 years the average number of children killed at school is 10 per year.

The top 10 cities with gun deaths per capita are

10. Milwaukee WI - 145
9. Salinas Ca - 40
8. Hartford Ct - 32
7. Baton Rouge La - 60
6. Jackson Ms - 53
5. Birmingham Al - 79
4. New Orleans La - 164
3. Detroit MI - 295
2. Baltimore Md - 344
1. ST Louis Mo - 188

if you cite your source, it would help your post bigley.

bismarcktribune.com...

fivethirtyeight.com...

nymag.com...

news.northeastern.edu...

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
I have to ask this because I'm getting serious dissonance between the media and protesters and the numbers I've researched - but are the numbers I posted for the school shootings what others have heard? I always hear things like "a school shooting every other day" or "18 already this year" but it is always surrounded by nebulous terms, facts and statistics.

They're not talking about "killed" or "mass shootings." They're talking about injury AND death. Most of the time these don't make national news... you have to look for local news.

Frankly, even one child shot by somebody (even if in an after school fight on school grounds between students over someone's boyfriend) is one child too many.

so let’s start banning things based on the amount of people killed by them. Guns would be near the bottom of that list.

Alcohol, tobacco, and cars, should be your focus if what you are really worried about are people’s lives.

And facts.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
I have to ask this because I'm getting serious dissonance between the media and protesters and the numbers I've researched - but are the numbers I posted for the school shootings what others have heard? I always hear things like "a school shooting every other day" or "18 already this year" but it is always surrounded by nebulous terms, facts and statistics.

They're not talking about "killed" or "mass shootings." They're talking about injury AND death. Most of the time these don't make national news... you have to look for local news.

Frankly, even one child shot by somebody (even if in an after school fight on school grounds between students over someone's boyfriend) is one child too many.

The 18 shootings is propaganda

www.usatoday.com...
“In eight of the 18 cases originally counted by Everytown, no one was injured or killed. Two were suicides.”

Once again people focus on the tool and not the person. We just saw a person in Austin kill 2 and put the whole city in lock down with package bombs. That 2 could just as easily have been 20 or 200, and don't forget...



Its the person not the tool. In the latest school shooting he could have pulled the alarm and when 1000s of kids formed outside he could have hit the crowd with a truck doing 80 and killed more...

As long as we focus on guns and not the people who for some reason decided to mass kill we are going to be surprised just how ingenious they will become with guns not even a part of it all.

We don't even look at the basic question of what causes a person to want to mass kill in the first place?