The China-U.S. trade war thread.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
OK. It looks like it's time for this thread to open.

After a surprising delay in a Chinese response to President Trump's steel, aluminum and solar panel tariffs, they've come out with their 'threatened' potential retaliations.

www.youtube.com...

Make no mistake, I and others, believe we have been at war with China for a while now. No. No bullets or missiles. An economic war. One that has the same or similar potential as a shooting war. Rather than bombing infrastructure and industry into oblivion, one destroys it economically.

It probably didn't start out that way, with the help of U.S. Corporations that now proclaim they are 'international' corporations, and our own self interests and outright laziness, we've been backed into an economic corner.

Trump has made the opening move. Likely based on the fact that steel and aluminum as basics to any industrial nation. One only has to look at history to see what lacking those basic industries did to Japan when they were cut off from outside supply by the U.S..

His actions was both initial and very limited. Hopefully to merely level the playing field somewhat and use that momentum to cause an resurgence to the U.S. manufacturing base.

Well over one hundred exports from the U.S. were 'named' as having potential counter tariffs placed on them. This strikes as a little over the top and suggests to me that this is more a rhetorical, fear inducing move by China.

Then again, maybe not. They 'could' be serious as a heart attack. In which case, the 'war' becomes 'official'.

I am fully willing to enter that 'war'.

Thoughts?

So counter tariffs mean they pay more for our stuff?

Their govt gets the extra money?

What's a VAT tax?

Seems like someone should make their own stuff.

Didn't Bush give the chinese all the steel from the twin towers?

That won't happen again.

Keep it inhouse.

originally posted by: olaru12
A trade war with China will bring the market down. The dollar is already at risk; how much inflation are you willing to risk?

Perhaps it's time to trade in your USD for Yuan or even [gasp] Euros.

And what if Trumps arrogance prompts China to call in its markers it has on the US....Trump isn't sitting in a position of strength, China is...

Yeah and people will just give up their property to the chinese when they want it.

Come and get it.

We might have to start eating Kosher and Halal.

a reply to: nwtrucker


unearthed.greenpeace.org...

sourcingjournalonline.com...

If its not China doing factories, US would have done the same, but with military of destruction making things even worst as of now. Two sides of the same coin is not right. China does things more peacefully. Do you see the cops in US helping civilians, they go by the pay check? All the protest means nothing. Unlike US, China actually cares about its citizens.

US just got lucky majority of the factories moved overseas, that is why the water is clean for now, but recently had been full of lead(Michigan). Now you want them back? GL with that when Trump destroyed EPA.


BTW, China banned all plastic now. US should follow suite. No more plastic water bottles. We must reuse metal cans. Too much plastic bottles in the ocean already.



Even Canada is following suite. Time to move the fk on. First, plastic water bottles, then eventually plastic containers. Plastic for electrical wiring on the hand can stay.

globalnews.ca...

a reply to: nwtrucker
China does not have to trade with the US, they are a global power, and have both the manpower and the means to move and ship goods all on their own. And the very rules for business that the US has been doing, including Trump, China developed, perfected and has been using for years. So how much of a war is this really going to be?

Looking at the past 20 years, China has been focusing efforts in 2 different areas, one is Africa, with all of the natural resources, has been where China has been spending money and manpower to develop and establish strong trade relations, along with developing countries. The other is Latin America. It has been probing and getting into areas that either the USA has neglected or has been alienating due to bad policies.

When Trump announced that it was pulling out of the TPP, many countries, China came in and offered another deal that countries are considering on doing. Now if China is starting to flex its economic muscle and start to under-cut or even pick up and exceed trade that the USA is dropping how good would it be for the USA?

In short the USA is about to get into a trade war with China, which the USA can ill afford.

a reply to: nwtrucker

China's economic boom... doesn't happen without US gov't leaders and corporations willing and able to exploit that market for personal gain.....

I have ZERO issue with the moves POTUS is making, trying to rebuild a strong self sufficient manufacturing base within the USA...

I doubt war will result from this...

China has reaped the benefits of the greedy in the US... looking to fill their pockets off the back of slave labor in China...

I look forward to the day when the USA is Self Sufficient again...

A strong manufacturing base here... was and should be again, the largest deterrent to foreign adversaries with bad intentions.....

This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!

All rules for polite political debate will be enforced.
Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

Go After the Ball, Not the Player!
Community Announcement re: Decorum

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: nwtrucker


What I found interesting is the proposed Chinese strategy of targeting Trump's base. I don't think that it will work and only galvanize them to further support their choice. If they really wanted to make a more serious impact they'd go after industries or states that would impact more moderate voters. This may end up backfiring on them politically.

Bush did the exact same tariffs in 2002 and it cost $4 billion in wages and 200,000 jobs all across the US. Why won't it be the same this time?

a reply to: makemap

Sure China care for it's citizens. More like even less than the U.S..

I have no problem with China and her factories...as long as they don't continue acting like they're taking over. Including not operating on a level playing field. Can't really blame them, or Japan or India or the rest of the Asian nations. I'd likely be doing the same.

I don't live there. I live here. I don't want the U.S. losing it's industrial base totally to the east.

That's just me. Screw the moral judgement. If it takes a fight, then sobeit.

a reply to: makemap

Agreed on the plastic. One step at a time though.

a reply to: Aazadan

I don't buy the numbers, however. Especially knowing your political leanings.

originally posted by: carewemust
Trump says that the U.S. has less to lose in a trade war with China, because they're already screwing us over.. and have been for a couple of decades.

And he's very, very wrong.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Aazadan

I don't buy the numbers, however. Especially knowing your political leanings.

The numbers are accurate. Free trade works, isolationism does not.

originally posted by: JacKatMtn
A strong manufacturing base here... was and should be again, the largest deterrent to foreign adversaries with bad intentions.....

Manufacturing has changed. If you want to work on a good factory floor today you need a masters in engineering, or preferably a phd. You need to design systems, program machines to make those systems, and oversee the process.

Blue collar factory workers are too lazy to do it. That's why manufacturing is hurting in the US, the work force is refusing to modernize.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: JacKatMtn
A strong manufacturing base here... was and should be again, the largest deterrent to foreign adversaries with bad intentions.....

Manufacturing has changed. If you want to work on a good factory floor today you need a masters in engineering, or preferably a phd. You need to design systems, program machines to make those systems, and oversee the process.

Blue collar factory workers are too lazy to do it. That's why manufacturing is hurting in the US, the work force is refusing to modernize.

What?? You been doing doobies? Since when has the blue collar workers decided on modernization? That's the bosses.

To further answer your question on why it will be different is simple. When Trump desn't get what he wants he doubles down. Bush? He backs down...

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Aazadan

I don't buy the numbers, however. Especially knowing your political leanings.

The numbers are accurate. Free trade works, isolationism does not.

No one is talking isolationism except those with vested interests in maintaining the current trend. Level playing field is the goal. Isolationism is unworkable in today's world economy. We all know that so please refrain from the latest template.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
What?? You been doing doobies? Since when has the blue collar workers decided on modernization? That's the bosses.

To further answer your question on why it will be different is simple. When Trump desn't get what he wants he doubles down. Bush? He backs down...

Doubling down on bad policies isn't how you win in economics.

Bosses determine what work needs to be done, competition determines how it's done. In order to be globally competitive, you need to increase your skill sets. I really wish I could share the pictures I've got of the various factories I've toured in the US this year. I've been at factories that are global leaders and sell billions in product annually. The work forces are much different than at the ones that sell lower end equipment.

If you want to be competitive, you have to update your processes.

Machines own the assembly line now, the persons role in the process is to be an artisian that guides the machines. If you're still on a line, you're obsolete.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Aazadan

I don't buy the numbers, however. Especially knowing your political leanings.

The numbers are accurate. Free trade works, isolationism does not.

No one is talking isolationism except those with vested interests in maintaining the current trend. Level playing field is the goal. Isolationism is unworkable in today's world economy. We all know that so please refrain from the latest template.

Then why are we taking a playing field with China, where we're winning and throwing it away? We may be their biggest customer, but we're not their only customer. China will have zero problems replacing us with India and Africa.

We're already getting massive steel shortages and layoffs on the horizon. Some steel products have already risen by 100%. There will be no replacement to supply because it will take years to get US steel plants up and running again... and even when we do, we'll be making an inferior product for years while playing catchup.

a reply to: nwtrucker

To further answer your question on why it will be different is simple. When Trump desn't get what he wants he doubles down.

Like he did on the budget he just signed?



www.axios.com...