The China-U.S. trade war thread.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

I'd agree short term. Long term? I'd say it would be a positive. Far worse is the continued collapse of U.S. industry.

Trade war isn't a given. Being mentally prepared and realizing it is a possibility is only prudent.

Our industry is opening doors to China...didn't you read any of the links provided? The Chinese people want American goods. American people WANT cheap Chinese goods... A trade war restricts both.

There's going to be lots of 'links' saying China is going to 'open up to U.S. goods. Lot's of vested interests in continuing things as they are, Both corporate and individuals. Besides cars and food, just what do we have left to export to China? Not freaking much....and getting less as we speak. Sorry, but I don't buy it.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

I don't disagree with much of what you said. The alternative is worse. That's the perception your dealing with.

Right now, fear of the U.S. falling into a third world status is the worse of the two fears. Let's China swing back. (They haven't yet.)

If they get that we want a leveler playing field and NOT a return to the old days, they may equally want to avoid an all-out trade war.

If they won't back down, then we were and are at 'war' and might as well get on with it.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

I'd agree short term. Long term? I'd say it would be a positive. Far worse is the continued collapse of U.S. industry.

Trade war isn't a given. Being mentally prepared and realizing it is a possibility is only prudent.

Our industry is opening doors to China...didn't you read any of the links provided? The Chinese people want American goods. American people WANT cheap Chinese goods... A trade war restricts both.

Double post

edit on 24-3-2018 by nwtrucker because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Great. So we can import Chinese steel and aluminum to build the cars to sell to China...I will pass thanks.

How long before China decides to by-pass U.S. cars and builds them themselves, in that scenario? Either way, for that matter.

4% of our steel comes from China. Source

"China, my understanding is, supplies 4 percent of the steel in the U.S," King said during a March 4 interview on NBC’s Meet the Press.

As far as Aluminum, the US imports about 90% of it from all over the world. Not just from Asia.
China is the world's leading aluminum mining country. In fact the US isn't even in the top 5, it's number 8.
The truth is, we can't mine enough bauxite to meet our own needs, therefore we have to import it. Our imports have exceeded our bauxite production pretty much since the 1920's.
source


China has been building their own EVERYTHING already. They just want American cars and I'm happy to see them import them.

Educate yourself about how it works and you'll see that any sort of trade war only hurts Americans and American business. Isolationism never benefits the isolationist country.

I've seen that 4% number and don't buy that one. Too many of our steel plants have close to the tune of 60K jobs since 2000 to buy into automation either. I've seen some of the volume coming into the U.S. on the west coast. Besides, that steel tariff also applies to every other nation, as well, with only Canada and Mexico exempt.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I was thinking the other day if the general economic system of Planet Earth was better before China was engaged by the west. To be honest the Chinese have destroyed so many of our jobs over here in the UK and the communities that go with them that it just makes one wonder................ would we all be better off if China didn't exist?

originally posted by: Willtell
China is targeting Trump’s supporters according to some reports
www.nytimes.com...

China also picked its targets carefully by choosing goods that had political resonance, akin to what the European Union did this month by targeting bourbon, bluejeans and motorcycles, products made in states with Republican politicians or that supported Mr. Trump in his 2016 election victory. In China’s case, pork comes from Nebraska and the Midwest, states that backed Mr. Trump.

Start buying pork chops folks before the prices go up.

No more pork fried rice!

prices go up?........pork prices will come down if Americans can't sell their pork to china. they will have to lower their prices to move the massive amount of inventory that IS NOT sold to china, but are still in feedlots and farms....that's why pork producers in America are so worried. eventually the inventory would diminish, and pork prices would go up, but then you have the problem of volume of sales being lower

originally posted by: Willtell
China is targeting Trump’s supporters according to some reports
www.nytimes.com...

China also picked its targets carefully by choosing goods that had political resonance, akin to what the European Union did this month by targeting bourbon, bluejeans and motorcycles, products made in states with Republican politicians or that supported Mr. Trump in his 2016 election victory. In China’s case, pork comes from Nebraska and the Midwest, states that backed Mr. Trump.

Start buying pork chops folks before the prices go up.

No more pork fried rice!

doublepost

a reply to: rickymouse


If the tariffs go on expect the buyer , joe public to front the bill, because American stuff will still be dearer. Inflation by any other name.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Great. So we can import Chinese steel and aluminum to build the cars to sell to China...I will pass thanks.

How long before China decides to by-pass U.S. cars and builds them themselves, in that scenario? Either way, for that matter.

4% of our steel comes from China. Source

"China, my understanding is, supplies 4 percent of the steel in the U.S," King said during a March 4 interview on NBC’s Meet the Press.

As far as Aluminum, the US imports about 90% of it from all over the world. Not just from Asia.
China is the world's leading aluminum mining country. In fact the US isn't even in the top 5, it's number 8.
The truth is, we can't mine enough bauxite to meet our own needs, therefore we have to import it. Our imports have exceeded our bauxite production pretty much since the 1920's.
source


China has been building their own EVERYTHING already. They just want American cars and I'm happy to see them import them.

Educate yourself about how it works and you'll see that any sort of trade war only hurts Americans and American business. Isolationism never benefits the isolationist country.

Right. 'Educate yourself' he says. Why does the thought cross you have vested interests? Since 2013, we've gone from 8 aluminum producers to 5. Only one that produces military grade 'pure' aluminum. Once again, these tariffs aren't restricted to China.

P.S. No one is talking 'isolationism'. That's impossible in this day and age. A leveler playing field is not impossible. Unless China cedes that fact and negotiates in that direction, it will be they that will be causing a trade war.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: sdcigarpig

You make a good point. The world is run by the petro-dollar. And any trade war could likely cause it to crash... Wasn't there already talk about a different petro-currency?

There is a leverage against that possibility and that's opening up our oil and CNG exports, flooding the market and lowering the overall price and income for those nations that do dump the Petro Dollar.

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Irishhaf
China has their own issues, its silly to think we have no leverage in this case.

Defaulting on the debt, thats not what I would really call leverage.

More like a dead mans switch / doomsday machine.

Its not defaulting. if a nation like china attacks us their debt we owe them is null and void.

A shooting war with China would definitely wipe out the debt. Along with billions of people.

Glad I don't have any kids.....I don't understand this video game world view at all.

Only nobody said anything about a shooting war.

The topic was a TRADE war. See the thread title please.

Can't you just come out and say that you have no actual clue about the topic but Trump did it so its bad.

It would save some of us time in responding to you.

It would be wise to consider the possibility of actual war. If my view of it is correct and this is already war via economics, it isn't that far fetched for this to reach that level. JMO, though.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Irishhaf
China has their own issues, its silly to think we have no leverage in this case.

Defaulting on the debt, thats not what I would really call leverage.

More like a dead mans switch / doomsday machine.

Its not defaulting. if a nation like china attacks us their debt we owe them is null and void.

A shooting war with China would definitely wipe out the debt. Along with billions of people.

Glad I don't have any kids.....I don't understand this video game world view at all.

Only nobody said anything about a shooting war.

The topic was a TRADE war. See the thread title please.

Can't you just come out and say that you have no actual clue about the topic but Trump did it so its bad.

It would save some of us time in responding to you.

It would be wise to consider the possibility of actual war. If my view of it is correct and this is already war via economics, it isn't that far fetched for this to reach that level. JMO, though.

You don't keep your economy going by taking it away. What I mean by that is, if there is a hot war between China and the USA then nobody wins and Russia starves to death soon after. China is not going to step up and destroy its primary market. Also the place where they are stealing all their tech.

China and the USA will never go to actual war. At the most, a war by proxy in the peninsula.

So economically, a real war between the US and China is nothing but a fantasy.

It sells books though...

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Irishhaf
China has their own issues, its silly to think we have no leverage in this case.

Defaulting on the debt, thats not what I would really call leverage.

More like a dead mans switch / doomsday machine.

Its not defaulting. if a nation like china attacks us their debt we owe them is null and void.

A shooting war with China would definitely wipe out the debt. Along with billions of people.

Glad I don't have any kids.....I don't understand this video game world view at all.

Only nobody said anything about a shooting war.

The topic was a TRADE war. See the thread title please.

Can't you just come out and say that you have no actual clue about the topic but Trump did it so its bad.

It would save some of us time in responding to you.

It would be wise to consider the possibility of actual war. If my view of it is correct and this is already war via economics, it isn't that far fetched for this to reach that level. JMO, though.

You don't keep your economy going by taking it away. What I mean by that is, if there is a hot war between China and the USA then nobody wins and Russia starves to death soon after. China is not going to step up and destroy its primary market. Also the place where they are stealing all their tech.

China and the USA will never go to actual war. At the most, a war by proxy in the peninsula.

So economically, a real war between the US and China is nothing but a fantasy.

It sells books though...

I agree with you...until you call it a fantasy. Unlikely? Yes. Things can get out of hand very, very fast. While I'm far from expert, China is actually in very a precarious financial situation. They leveraged their loans based on a 15% annual growth rate. Flat out insane. The restrictions they placed of foreign Corporation selling shares in China was a big indicator of their problems.

I'm guessing here, but the big drop in oil prices may have saved, or at least mitigated their financial situation. I further speculate that is why the prices have generally stayed fairly low. TPTB don't want a collapse of the Yuan.

If their financial situation is as bad as it looks, then any trade barriers placed by the U.S. could lead to an armed conflict. Look at what Japan did after the U.S. cut off their oil and scrap metal supply. Yes, a weak analogy, but did anyone really suspect Japan would launch an all-out war against the U.S., Britain, et al?

'Honor the threat' is a stable of our military. You may call it fantasy-and I hope your right- but I won't. JMO, though.

a reply to: nwtrucker

I will star you for your post, however China is never going to have an oil issue. They own a lot of oil in Africa.

Their financial situation is a bit precarious but it is mostly because our country spread our inflation globally (see the petro-dollar).

Their only stable market, ironically, is the US. So taking us out of the equation will quite literally take them out of the same equation.

They will posture, we will posture, they will do anything they can to put pressure on our politicians by spreading fears of a global conflict, we will eventually reach terms.

That's the only thing that is going to happen. A solar EMP has a greater chance of happening than a physical war between China and the US.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: nwtrucker

I was thinking the other day if the general economic system of Planet Earth was better before China was engaged by the west. To be honest the Chinese have destroyed so many of our jobs over here in the UK and the communities that go with them that it just makes one wonder................ would we all be better off if China didn't exist?

Your an idiot for thinking that. Who do you think supported Green tech industries. It was freaking China and Canada. The oil companies are still fracking US internally. If China wasn't there, US would not have gotten out of the coal age. It was the West that refused to change technology because they had an advantage over everyone else militarily just like China didn't change technology when they thought they had the best technology then cannons.

China balance the play field against US corrupt policies since the fall of USSR. US is as equally worst when it comes to destroying the planet, but unlike China having lots of people buying a lot of stuff. US was destroying the planet technologically through warfare and pre-planned agendas to poison our food industries.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Here's a Wall Street Journal article that states China 'started' the trade war.:

www.wsj.com...

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: nwtrucker

I will star you for your post, however China is never going to have an oil issue. They own a lot of oil in Africa.

Their financial situation is a bit precarious but it is mostly because our country spread our inflation globally (see the petro-dollar).

Their only stable market, ironically, is the US. So taking us out of the equation will quite literally take them out of the same equation.

They will posture, we will posture, they will do anything they can to put pressure on our politicians by spreading fears of a global conflict, we will eventually reach terms.

That's the only thing that is going to happen. A solar EMP has a greater chance of happening than a physical war between China and the US.

Thank you. Your view of it makes complete sense and is the likely outcome. Unfortunately, this isn't a sane and reasonable planet. Here's hoping....

a reply to: olaru12

It doesnt have to be a shooting war. Cyber attacks count as war these days.

originally posted by: makemap

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: nwtrucker

I was thinking the other day if the general economic system of Planet Earth was better before China was engaged by the west. To be honest the Chinese have destroyed so many of our jobs over here in the UK and the communities that go with them that it just makes one wonder................ would we all be better off if China didn't exist?

Your an idiot for thinking that. Who do you think supported Green tech industries. It was freaking China and Canada. The oil companies are still fracking US internally. If China wasn't there, US would not have gotten out of the coal age. It was the West that refused to change technology because they had an advantage over everyone else militarily just like China didn't change technology when they thought they had the best technology then cannons.

China balance the play field against US corrupt policies since the fall of USSR. US is as equally worst when it comes to destroying the planet, but unlike China having lots of people buying a lot of stuff. US was destroying the planet technologically through warfare and pre-planned agendas to poison our food industries.

Fascinating post. Canada exports massive amounts of coal. Has weaker environmental laws than the U.S.. Imports spent Uranium from the U.S. that they don't want.

China is far more polluted than the U.S., as well. Of course, China has no oil to speak of and has been entirely dependent on imports. Of course they would look to alternate energy sorces before the U.S. which has massive reserves. Economics plays a part in this. Oh yes, the seizing of territory in the South China Sea has only one purpose...oil development.

Did someone mention 'idiot'?

a reply to: makemap

Cannot tell if just stupid or actual China bot....

China supported green tech industries? You mean by stealing our tech and using slave labor to lower the costs on the product so they could sell it back to the west? And in doing so polluted their own land to the point that there are cities in China that you can't actually breath in? Well YAY for China being green!!!! Just like the color of their air!!!!

Use of flare gas reclamation technology that boosted propane output on America's wells is what eventually slowed coal down. That has been happening in the US since the 60's. Horizontal drilling helped as well as gas lifts on the new wells. So it wasn't China doing that, sparky.

The whole rest of your post seemed to be some sort of weird drug-induced climate babble, so I'm going to leave that alone because I don't do well debating science deniers.