The China-U.S. trade war thread.

originally posted by: drewlander
Let's start by saying that the US and China are "narrowing the trade gap." Instantly the trade war is over.

You can say that. The Chinese response 'says' otherwise.

They can try and attack Trumps base but their really isn’t anything left to take from us. Our own politicians already did that hence our vote for Trump. I’m ready for this war so bring it China. Better than that War on Terrorism I fought in that Bush brought along and Obama expanded.

a reply to: kelbtalfenek

I'd agree short term. Long term? I'd say it would be a positive. Far worse is the continued collapse of U.S. industry.

Trade war isn't a given. Being mentally prepared and realizing it is a possibility is only prudent.

a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Great. So we can import Chinese steel and aluminum to build the cars to sell to China...I will pass thanks.

How long before China decides to by-pass U.S. cars and builds them themselves, in that scenario? Either way, for that matter.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Irishhaf
China has their own issues, its silly to think we have no leverage in this case.

Defaulting on the debt, thats not what I would really call leverage.

More like a dead mans switch / doomsday machine.

Its not defaulting. if a nation like china attacks us their debt we owe them is null and void.

A shooting war with China would definitely wipe out the debt. Along with billions of people.

Glad I don't have any kids.....I don't understand this video game world view at all.

Majority of the electrical items are from China. So how does it work now?

China can "call in all it's markers" or demand any holdings so to speak but in reality, they'll be told to get bent like anyone else would. If any kind of escalation happens the u.s. would declare it's debt to China null and void. Not to mention everyone thinks China is all big and bad. That's such an illusion. Do you realize the kind of wealth and resources China would need to operate it's military fully and at the same time feed it's entire population?

Meanwhile, this next Monday...... A Chinese space station called Tiangong-1, or "Heavenly Palace," is about to crash to Earth.
The 9.4-ton spacecraft will fall from the sky around April 1, break up, and sprinkle debris over Earth's surface.
Objects as large as Tiangong-1 can tumble and "skip" off the atmosphere.
These and other factors make advanced predictions of a reentry date, time, and location nearly impossible.
However, it's unlikely that any pieces of Tiangong-1 will land on people.

But I suppose it's a different topic.
The Chinese had a good run, much like the early prospectors at Sutter's Mill or Microsoft stock.... now they are going to shed the great advantage they have used against all their trading partners.

Step into the real world, where there are consequences for cheating.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

I'd agree short term. Long term? I'd say it would be a positive. Far worse is the continued collapse of U.S. industry.

Trade war isn't a given. Being mentally prepared and realizing it is a possibility is only prudent.

Our industry is opening doors to China...didn't you read any of the links provided? The Chinese people want American goods. American people WANT cheap Chinese goods... A trade war restricts both.

Having paid attention to this the following can be stated:
Several things should be noted, and this trade war with China is a bad idea.

The first main thing that should be taken into account, is that 3% of all goods sold in the USA are made in China. That reflects about the 40% of all items in households that are made in China.

Currently China holds about 6.3 Trillion dollars of the US debt. Any time the US needs money, it turns to the foreign markets, and countries like China buys the bonds that gives the US money that it spends.

The main strengths of the USA, has been its currency, the dollar. That is intertwined with many other countries around the world. Many goods are traded in US dollars, and only dollars, like oil. Oil is not traded in any other currency by dollars. And the US dollar is one of the main currencies in the World Bank. The confidence in the strength, along with the ability for the USA to pay its debts on time is what makes it so. But shatter that confidence, causes consequences in the world the likes of which has not been seen since the Great Depression.

Is it wise to get into a trade war with China? The president made the first shot, and China retaliated. If this escalates, how long till China tires of it and ups the ante? How long till they decide that business with the US is no longer an option, cutting off trade, including all manufacturing. Will the public be willing to give up its cheap goods, clothing, electronics and other items, like those that are found in say Walmart or Target?

Some here have said that the US could default on its debt and should. Would eliminate it, however, it is not as simple as that. There would be consequences, the likes of which would fall against the USA.
Let’s say that the USA does default, and refuses to pay back China. That debt does not just disappear, but countries member. It would have ripples around the world, and consequences, the likes that have not been seen since the Great depression. The first thing would be that the USA would not be able to borrow. Then China would take the USA into court and sue for remittance. This would spark other countries doing the same. US assets outside of the country could be seized and held. Then there is the positon on the world bank, it would be gone, and the oil markets also means that the US dollar would be shifted to another currency. Inflation of the US dollar would skyrocket where the cost of goods and services would be far more than the people could afford.

Now once the world readjusts, who do you think that they will blame for the economic crisis? The USA, and many countries will cease to deal with the USA, not trading or doing business. Investors will withdraw their money and in short, leave the USA financially without.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Great. So we can import Chinese steel and aluminum to build the cars to sell to China...I will pass thanks.

How long before China decides to by-pass U.S. cars and builds them themselves, in that scenario? Either way, for that matter.

4% of our steel comes from China. Source

"China, my understanding is, supplies 4 percent of the steel in the U.S," King said during a March 4 interview on NBC’s Meet the Press.

As far as Aluminum, the US imports about 90% of it from all over the world. Not just from Asia.
China is the world's leading aluminum mining country. In fact the US isn't even in the top 5, it's number 8.
The truth is, we can't mine enough bauxite to meet our own needs, therefore we have to import it. Our imports have exceeded our bauxite production pretty much since the 1920's.
source


China has been building their own EVERYTHING already. They just want American cars and I'm happy to see them import them.

Educate yourself about how it works and you'll see that any sort of trade war only hurts Americans and American business. Isolationism never benefits the isolationist country.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Currently China holds about 6.3 Trillion dollars of the US debt

6.3 trillion is the estimated total of all foreign debt holdings, China owns a little over 1 trillion of that.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

You make a good point. The world is run by the petro-dollar. And any trade war could likely cause it to crash... Wasn't there already talk about a different petro-currency?

If China takes its money out of US bonds it could bring the US to its knees.
That would truly be a war!

China is targeting Trump’s supporters according to some reports
www.nytimes.com...

China also picked its targets carefully by choosing goods that had political resonance, akin to what the European Union did this month by targeting bourbon, bluejeans and motorcycles, products made in states with Republican politicians or that supported Mr. Trump in his 2016 election victory. In China’s case, pork comes from Nebraska and the Midwest, states that backed Mr. Trump.

Start buying pork chops folks before the prices go up.

No more pork fried rice!

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: nwtrucker


What I found interesting is the proposed Chinese strategy of targeting Trump's base.

Random thought. I wonder if the Chinese and TPTB team up to take Trump out. Work with the Dems and Republican Elite?? That's a worrying thought...

Oh great... Chinese election meddling coming in 2020. Who will the hacker be this time; Lee-cifer 2.0?

I suppose in another timeline we would be ringing "China with a missile defense" and put some boots on the ground. They we're not too happy about the thought of that either. I don't think any American president is gonna make China happy, so narrowing the trade gap sounds great to me.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Irishhaf
China has their own issues, its silly to think we have no leverage in this case.

Defaulting on the debt, thats not what I would really call leverage.

More like a dead mans switch / doomsday machine.

Its not defaulting. if a nation like china attacks us their debt we owe them is null and void.

A shooting war with China would definitely wipe out the debt. Along with billions of people.

Glad I don't have any kids.....I don't understand this video game world view at all.

Only nobody said anything about a shooting war.

The topic was a TRADE war. See the thread title please.

Can't you just come out and say that you have no actual clue about the topic but Trump did it so its bad.

It would save some of us time in responding to you.

a reply to: nwtrucker

We would lose. The seeds have been sowed. We only fight each other, not our enemies. We dont know how to fight enemies anymore (Outside of a shooting war where we outclass our opponent).

At least we are more manageable.

originally posted by: Willtell
If China takes its money out of US bonds it could bring the US to its knees.
That would truly be a war!

Responses like this just make me weep for the future of America.

If China sells all of its US bonds tomorrow, other countries would just buy them.

The only thing coming from that is we would impose further credit restrictions on China and further limit our market to them.

Without a US market, China closes shop tomorrow. As a country.

What we really need to get rid of is China's current trade practice of requiring trade secrets and intellectual property rights from companies if they wish to do business there.

We also need to stop China from outright purchasing our politicians by basically purchasing their family members, like Mitch and Biden and Kerry.

This isn't a trade war at all... Trump is attempting to level the playing field.

a reply to: kelbtalfenek

There have been pushes to change from the Dollar to other currencies. However, such has only been talk, no real action, but if the US dollar were to suddenly drop in value to the point where it is worthless, then OPEC would have to vote, and change from us Dollars to another currency.

There has also been talk of removing or reducing the US state in the world bank as well, giving other currencies a stronger showing. If the US dollar were to become very weak, to say a default on a debt, would give weight to removing it from a position of strength with the world bank. That would cause the US to lose it credit rating and in turn de-valuate its currency further, to cause inflation to rise up and further cause economic problems for the citizens of the USA.