The China-U.S. trade war thread.

OK. It looks like it's time for this thread to open.

After a surprising delay in a Chinese response to President Trump's steel, aluminum and solar panel tariffs, they've come out with their 'threatened' potential retaliations.

www.youtube.com...

Make no mistake, I and others, believe we have been at war with China for a while now. No. No bullets or missiles. An economic war. One that has the same or similar potential as a shooting war. Rather than bombing infrastructure and industry into oblivion, one destroys it economically.

It probably didn't start out that way, with the help of U.S. Corporations that now proclaim they are 'international' corporations, and our own self interests and outright laziness, we've been backed into an economic corner.

Trump has made the opening move. Likely based on the fact that steel and aluminum as basics to any industrial nation. One only has to look at history to see what lacking those basic industries did to Japan when they were cut off from outside supply by the U.S..

His actions was both initial and very limited. Hopefully to merely level the playing field somewhat and use that momentum to cause an resurgence to the U.S. manufacturing base.

Well over one hundred exports from the U.S. were 'named' as having potential counter tariffs placed on them. This strikes as a little over the top and suggests to me that this is more a rhetorical, fear inducing move by China.

Then again, maybe not. They 'could' be serious as a heart attack. In which case, the 'war' becomes 'official'.

I am fully willing to enter that 'war'.

Thoughts?

a reply to: nwtrucker


What I found interesting is the proposed Chinese strategy of targeting Trump's base. I don't think that it will work and only galvanize them to further support their choice. If they really wanted to make a more serious impact they'd go after industries or states that would impact more moderate voters. This may end up backfiring on them politically.

a reply to: nwtrucker

the status quo is unacceptable , this is a start to balance trade . For to long our politicians let this country lose on trade deals . I do not know how this will work out , something has to be done .

A trade war with China will bring the market down. The dollar is already at risk; how much inflation are you willing to risk?

Perhaps it's time to trade in your USD for Yuan or even [gasp] Euros.

And what if Trumps arrogance prompts China to call in its markers it has on the US....Trump isn't sitting in a position of strength, China is...

Let's start by saying that the US and China are "narrowing the trade gap." Instantly the trade war is over.

Everyone thinks China has SO much dollars now and their very wealthy... They have had... but it is spent. Perhaps the stuff is in warehouses or on docks or stored, but their 'cash flow' is in jeopardy again as time goes by. If were not buying, their not creating revenue.

It won't take long for negotiations to come round.

a reply to: nwtrucker

China has their own issues, its silly to think we have no leverage in this case.

Trump made a lot of promises on the trade issues we face this is his attempt to get china to the table to talk, we made the opening move now china has countered at this point we have to stand firm. China has run roughshod over us for decades it is past time we review the arrangement.

Odds are much more likely we will posture, then they will posture some more and once honor is satisfied both sides will sit down and iron out some of the issues. This will not 100% fix the problem, but it sure would be nice to see a slightly more balanced playing field.

originally posted by: Irishhaf


Trump made a lot of promises on the trade issues we face this is his attempt to get china to the table to talk, we made the opening move now china has countered at this point we have to stand firm. China has run roughshod over us for decades it is past time we review the arrangement.

Did you see how Trump voted on the budget? Trumps promises are worth about as much as a popcorn fart.

Trump says that the U.S. has less to lose in a trade war with China, because they're already screwing us over.. and have been for a couple of decades.

a reply to: olaru12

Yea I get that, but most people never pay attention to the bills that are signed into law. This is a move that is good politically with an outside chance of doing some good for the American people, that can also be used in a campaign.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: nwtrucker


What I found interesting is the proposed Chinese strategy of targeting Trump's base. I don't think that it will work and only galvanize them to further support their choice. If they really wanted to make a more serious impact they'd go after industries or states that would impact more moderate voters. This may end up backfiring on them politically.

An interesting take. I didn't see that strategy. Kind of strange. Trump is relatively safe until the next Presidential elections, one would think.

Random thought. I wonder if the Chinese and TPTB team up to take Trump out. Work with the Dems and Republican Elite?? That's a worrying thought...

originally posted by: 10uoutlaw
a reply to: nwtrucker

the status quo is unacceptable , this is a start to balance trade . For to long our politicians let this country lose on trade deals . I do not know how this will work out , something has to be done .

That's how I see it.

originally posted by: olaru12
A trade war with China will bring the market down. The dollar is already at risk; how much inflation are you willing to risk?

Perhaps it's time to trade in your USD for Yuan or even [gasp] Euros.

And what if Trumps arrogance prompts China to call in its markers it has on the US....Trump isn't sitting in a position of strength, China is...

I don't see it that way. The Chinese have been 'money laundering' the Yuan for a number of years. They're way over the line credit-wise and have a bigger debt, apparently, than the U.S..(Not sure about that one, though.) They dump their T-Bills and it collapses not only the USD, it collapses their 'assets'. Mutually assured destruction.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Whilst many of you may think a "trade war" with China is good, I can tell you that it would have severe repercussions in almost every category of consumer goods. Can anybody tell me what China doesn't make? Not much of anything...they have a booming economy and a great deal of cash to spend.

In the last few years China has allowed importation of US made automobiles. It's a new market for the US Auto industry and it's growing. (Except for Ford which had a downtick.)

More than 4.5 million vehicles were sold in China in the first two months of the year, up 1.7% compared with the same period in 2017, the government-backed China Association of Automobile Manufacturers said Friday.

source

Why is that important? Because the US Auto industry is a good indicator of how the economy here at home is going. There are around 2 million people directly involved in the US Auto industry. Add to that suppliers, sub suppliers, and sub sub suppliers. The US auto industry has ties with steel manufacturing, the electronics industry, and many other industries. China's new open market has been a boon to this industry and to many others. (Among them being infant formula, nutrition supplements, and certain apparel/ handbags.) Certain name brands are very popular in China as well: Nike, Apple, Starbucks, Microsoft, Intel, Coca-Cola and many others. reference

If a trade war occurs, look for all of these industries to tighten their belts due to reduced profits.

A trade war with China would NOT be beneficial to this country, it's wealth nor the average consumer here.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
China has their own issues, its silly to think we have no leverage in this case.

Defaulting on the debt, thats not what I would really call leverage.

More like a dead mans switch / doomsday machine.

originally posted by: olaru12
A trade war with China will bring the market down. The dollar is already at risk; how much inflation are you willing to risk?

Perhaps it's time to trade in your USD for Yuan or even [gasp] Euros.

And what if Trumps arrogance prompts China to call in its markers it has on the US....Trump isn't sitting in a position of strength, China is...

Well I see a upside. We can declare China a hostile lender and nullify our bonds to them and most of the debt is gone overnight since if you go to war with a holder of debt(as in they started it or attacked us) th edebt is nullified because the UN does not expect you to have to pay back such a lender.

The tarriffs won't hurt China that bad. The fact is it will just raise the prices of these goods here and we will be paying the increase, China will not lose anything. In fact, the Importers here will be paying those costs, I do not feel sorry for them at all, they jack up a one dollar product to two dollars to sell it to retailers. Those importers are making a real lot of money, that money fuels the economy of many cities in New York and California. Expect those states to dislike this move because now other states will have the ability to create jobs to compete somewhat with China. If we did not have this middle man, we would be paying half of what we do in the stores. We are not saving anything buying from China, the middle man makes a lot of money. People do not understand this, we could make lots of this stuff here in America because we do not have someone importing this stuff overcharging us.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

originally posted by: Irishhaf
China has their own issues, its silly to think we have no leverage in this case.

Defaulting on the debt, thats not what I would really call leverage.

More like a dead mans switch / doomsday machine.

Its not defaulting. if a nation like china attacks us their debt we owe them is null and void.

Uk has a 73.7% levy on Chinese steel. Imposed by the EU.