ive been thinking about legalization and universal basic income

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: TinySickTears

Where does this ridiculous idea come from that the government is there to take care of everyone?
.

they dont have to.
and 10k a year is not taking care of. its a form of assistance.

why would it be a bad thing?

the human factor is what makes it not likely to work

a reply to: lordcomac

We have watched this happen over the years, that is why the cost of living is so high. I am on old fart, but I remember as a kid, getting a quarter and thinking I was rich. Try giving a kid a quarter today.

While I could use an extra $192.31 a week, it will not meet the needs of of those families that need it the most, and you are right, in a lot of cases the money will end up in the hands of con artists or spent for things that may not be necessary.

Anything that is obtained without effort usually is not viewed with high favor and is not highly valued. There has to be some skin in the game for a universal income to work the way it is intended.

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: TinySickTears

Where does this ridiculous idea come from that the government is there to take care of everyone?
.

they dont have to.
and 10k a year is not taking care of. its a form of assistance.

why would it be a bad thing?

the human factor is what makes it not likely to work

Inflation will make the $10k worthless. The price of everything will increase and all these people will be just as broke. Sure, in the short term, some people will benefit from the windfall, but prices of goods and services will rise accordingly thus negating the $10k UBI.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: TinySickTears

Where does this ridiculous idea come from that the government is there to take care of everyone?
.

they dont have to.
and 10k a year is not taking care of. its a form of assistance.

why would it be a bad thing?

the human factor is what makes it not likely to work

Inflation will make the $10k worthless. The price of everything will increase and all these people will be just as broke. Sure, in the short term, some people will benefit from the windfall, but prices of goods and services will rise accordingly thus negating the $10k UBI.

Why should there be any inflation at all??

Why can't things stay the same cost?

Why will people get greedy for more?

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: TinySickTears

Where does this ridiculous idea come from that the government is there to take care of everyone?
.

they dont have to.
and 10k a year is not taking care of. its a form of assistance.

why would it be a bad thing?

the human factor is what makes it not likely to work

Inflation will make the $10k worthless. The price of everything will increase and all these people will be just as broke. Sure, in the short term, some people will benefit from the windfall, but prices of goods and services will rise accordingly thus negating the $10k UBI.

Why should there be any inflation at all??

Why can't things stay the same cost?

Why will people get greedy for more?

When you increase the supply of money, inflation occurs. The dollar is not worth as much, thus making everything more expensive. This is basic economics 101.

This is why things like college, housing, cars are so expensive. Think of being able to get a loan like universal basic income. In a way, the loan is the UBI. As such, prices rise because there is more money sloshing around creating demand which increases prices.

People will absolutely get greedy. It is human nature to not care about costs when you aren't paying for it out of your own pocket. Anyone who has ever had an expense account knows this...

UBI can work but the maths to get it working properly is where it falls down as you need to give the same money to someone living in a high rent area as to someone living in a cheap area out in the sticks and both have different needs and wants.

The basic idea of reducing the state cost probably works to a point such as the effort of checking benefit entitlements costs money and thus for ever unit of currency you use you probably find that a %age will go on the paperwork so it may be cheaper to just pay a certain number to everyone and it would probably boost the economy.

Its basically a 6 of of one and half a dozen of the other question.

originally posted by: TinySickTears
this all sounds great and i think it could be great but we have the human factor.

the human factor is a great deal of people are just going to piss that money away and be in the same shape they were. needing public assistance.

so on that end what to do?
the idea is cut those programs cause people will not need it. reality is people will still need it

can/should the government tell people to # off. you got your 10 grand. not my problem till next year when you get your next 10?

they probably should. but can they really?
there is a level of responsibility to take care of its citizens.

then we get in a situation where people get the 10 large and are still on the programs.... that is not the way to go.

so in a perfect world i think legalization to fund universal basic income among other things is a great idea. i think it would relieve huge amounts of stress on people. it would go a long way to putting a dent in people being homeless. it would put money into the economy cause people would have more to spend.

in our world i think people are gonna # that up.
not all of course but a lot are just gonna piss it away and then still need public assistance.

i want universal basic income to work but i dont think it would.

what do you think?

There's more to universal income than just the interpretation of the human factor you provide.

Some people are going to piss away the 10 grand, okay sure...
Some people piss away their welfare and assistance already.

Getting the 10 grand doesn't mean you can't work, doesn't mean there aren't jobs or an opportunity to work for yourself.

Universal income is going to become inevitable as we move forward integrating technology in the workplace, as people readjust their work skills and retrain to fit the technological landscape we ourselves have created.

Giving everyone 10 grand a year doesn't alleviate our currently known social ills, mental health issues, alcoholism/addiction and this would be the main cause for pissing away your 10 grand.

What giving people universal income does, is alleviate a system that's become archaic and prejudiced/bigoted... social assistance programs, which cost taxpayers more in the long run than universal income will, but it also puts a lot of people out of work, or stuck retraining for jobs that have yet to be created due to universal income AND technology. Perhaps paving the way to more people being interested in specialized trades and practices.

Financial inequality has been known to cause a plethora of social ills and it could be argued that a universal income will reorganize our culture into a more relaxed "people helping people" oriented society.

Essentially I believe it gives people the power to reshape their neighborhoods and to help those in our communities who you believe would piss away their 10 grand.

It puts more responsibility on the individual and on the community. Some think this is scary, some think it's necessary.

How we fund universal income is somewhat of a moot point when it comes to the social, interpersonal issues that arise from a universal income.

In other words, I think we should be more focused on how to reorganize our communities, our neighborhoods and ourselves in the face of technology and an impending universal income.

It becomes a reorganization. As technology increased we became more distant from each other and ourselves, we no longer talk to our neighbors, we are mostly focused on generating or maintaining an income, we flock to our technology and there seems to be quite a disconnect between our technology and our communities, between technology and ourselves, between ourselves and others.

As the world became more connected, we became less connected to ourselves and our local communities and more attached to our technology.

I personally believe, if done correctly, a universal income could help us reorganize ourselves and our communities as well as help us bridge the disconnect between our technology and our local communities.

I think universal income is inevitable, and has to work or will be made to work, by the people for the people.

Economic slavery has plagued "citizens" worldwide; those economic masters are aware their power is being challenged and this is their last ditch effort to maintain control; if they give us universal income, we stay using their system, their economy, their dollars or credits.

It's merely another form of control by those already in control; it's a tactic to maintain control while giving the illusion of relenting control.

The problem with legalization is the value.
They can't make money off it if it's legal.

Think of it as a weed in your lawn. How much is the weed in your lawn worth?
It's why they are allowing only a few states to legalize.

The others make billions off making drugs illegal through the "justice" system.

There is no reasoning with greedy pigs.

We will be milked in every way possible, this is what happens when you let a few run things, they will use others work for their benefit.

a reply to: TinySickTears

There is already a basic income for everyone through either a job or social security retirement and/or disability. If you aren't working then you are likely retired or disabled...if not then tough crap...get a job. As far as pot goes I don't care if it is legalized because it doesn't cost me money or affect my life so I am all for giving my fellow citizens more rights.

So, legalize pot...sure, go for it...basic income...get a job and you get an income. You can't expect something for nothing nor should we be encouraging this behavior.

S&F

We've been heading towards so much automation that human labour/skills & jobs are disappearing rapidly reducing many people's ability to 'earn' a living.

Imagine a world where everything is manufactured by robotics replacing human labour and artificial general intelligence replaces a lot of the thinking jobs.

Where robotics replace human labour, the robots are given 'human hours' ratings like cars are given 'horse power'.
Companies that 'employ' robots should give them a wage according to their human hour ratings.
The robots would use their wage to cover their running costs and to pay taxes. Taxes (even taxes from cannabis sales) would be used to cover the cost of a Universal Basic Income (UBI).

Running costs for the robot could include their power bill, maintenance and even to repay their 'loan' that payed for their purchase & installation, so they would also have tax deductions to make things fair.

SingularityNET (1), which launches later this year, plans to connect artificial intelligence 'agents' via a blockchain so they can 'pay' each other using a crypto currency/token (AGI) for the services they provide. People & businesses can utilise artificial intelligence by using the same AGI token which can also be traded on the open market. Obviously, earnings would be taxed and contribute to a UBI for all.

Unfortunately, due to the way things are right now, too many people are doing jobs they don't love, by necessity, just to cover their cost of living and as a result we are all missing out on the wonderful creations they may otherwise offer us.
Almost total automation should reduce the cost of living in general and be used to cover the cost of a UBI, freeing humans to find their own expression, art, sport, music, design, science, care and everything else that people would do if given the chance to follow their heart.

Iamcidada (2) proposes that a UBI is possible using blockchain technology. They even claim to be able to replace politicians and voting methods which would be a great step towards reducing the waste that is government wages too, leaving even more in the 'kitty' to be shared by all.
If you like the idea of a UBI, I recommend that you check out the whitepaper for Iamcicada, it's available from their website.

A number of blockchains (3) are already being used to generate income from doing things that people just like to do. Many people have discovered that they can create a very good income doing things on a blockchain network that they had previously done for 'free' on older technology such as sharing videos (No, not Youtube there are better alternatives to that, you know?), sharing music, pictures and blogging etc. Blockchains are leading a massive change to the way things are currently being done (4) and may be the answer we've been wanting for a long time? I like to think so.

Obviously, we all want different things. Some are happy to wear jeans while others prefer a suit. Some like to eat salad while others, choose fine dining. A UBI would be just that, a basic income, just enough to pay the rent, buy food & clothing and perhaps a little extra for some entertainment. With the opportunity to follow your heart, find your own 'calling' and create something of value that can also be traded, you could add to your income or you could just live off you UBI and live on the beach.


References:
(1) singularitynet.io
(2) iamcicada.com
(3) 4 ways everyday internet users can earn via blockchain
(4) Websites That Pay Users With Blockchain Aim to Disrupt Facebook