Teacher behind anti-military classroom rant fired

a reply to: DBCowboy

Agreed.


But it goes back to a premise you surmised, that words now equate to physical harm.

I do think there is a line that should not be crossed, especially when it comes to dealing with students, but if we push that line any closer to the norms of discussion, we won't be able to say anything. We're slowly getting there.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Sorry, but he wasn't shaming him.
did he ask ALL of those students about their post high school plans?
if he did not, and he singled out the student in question, then yes he was shaming him based on his attire.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

My son grew up on a military base. DoD school.

PE he would run with his class and if he slowed down or complained the PE coach would scream, " Pain is the weakness leaving your body!"

Us old folks would just smile and laugh.

But it taught him that not everyone is going to treat him like a newborn kitten.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Oh great make it about me again. "You, you, you, you".

It's a simple formula. You either believe in free speech or you don't. But given your caveats, you belong on the "I believe in the free speech but" brigade.

I have a problem with the manner he made his opinions known.

What, by speaking?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: DBCowboy

I think what he said was stupid, and easily refuted. But if what he said constitutes "bullying" and "berating", all hope is lost for the future, whether left or right.

Im not sure it qualifies as either.

However, to insult a childs family members is cruel and a violation of the trust the family members sent their children to school under. Children are not adults (which we seem to be rehashing at an alarming rate here lately)

a reply to: shooterbrody

Sorry, but he wasn't shaming him.
did he ask ALL of those students about their post high school plans?
if he did not, and he singled out the student in question, then yes he was shaming him based on his attire.

I should have added, according to the video he wasn't shaming him. The video has nothing regarding any singling out, shaming, bullying or zero evidence of wrongdoing.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

However, to insult a childs family members is cruel and a violation of the trust the family members sent their children to school under. Children are not adults (which we seem to be rehashing at an alarming rate here lately)

I agree.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

feelings aren't my point, my point is that bullying isn't always obvious to people, subtle social pressure is the most basic tool of bullies and you just proved my point with that response, you think it's a game and that mocking someone will shut them up or force them to agree with you.

take that disrespectful condescending attitude elsewhere, if you can't keep it respectful then don't bother even replying to me at all.

my words are based on observable human interactions not personal feelings, if that teacher acted like that to the wrong kid then blood would be on his hands, life isn't a game so don't gamble with your words.

the school was right to fire him before he ended up pushing the wrong kid one day, most school shooters(over 75%) are perfectly sane and anger over careless words was all it took to provoke a violent response.

humans are dangerous.

just fyi but, i was never bullied so this has nothing to do with any personal grievances over such things.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I think you do not understand how education is funded in America.

We fund our schools with property taxes directly. The parents, collectively, run the schools by electing school board members. Its not perfect, as its purely representative by district.

But what it does is give the parents some rights in the school interaction, which gives us considerable leverage when dealing with turd teachers and admin. It also means that a teacher who does not follow the district approved lesson plan/curriculum, there is a violation of trust from a public employee.

Teachers are fired for straying from their lesson plan frequently enough that this isn't shocking. The only reason that you see it as a story is because it touches on a couple of identity politics hot points.

To be honest, im shocked at any backlash here. Its not uncommon for ATS members to decry the liberalization of our youth through politically motivated teachers. Here we see one such teacher being removed, and instead of celebrate it we are misconstruing what the term "freedom of speech" means (while forgetting it doesn't include "freedom from consequence", especially when you ignore multiple warnings from earlier dates)

a reply to: namehere

Another example is virtue signalling, which is another form of subtle social bullying. As you stand there, not participating in outrage while everyone is looking at you...waiting for you to signal your virtue, too.

My final thoughts on the subject;

We conflate issues that we're never thought of before. We have become grand architects of making mountains out of molehills and the only true casualty is free expression.

Peace.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I guess you didnt watch the video...
He told the student NOT TO WEAR THAT AGAIN.
How is that not shaming that student?

What that teacher did was bullying and the board was justified in firing him.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Oh great make it about me again. "You, you, you, you".

No, you always manage to take care of that for me when you insist on arguing from the position of knowing what I think better than I do.

It's a simple formula. You either believe in free speech or you don't. But given your caveats, you belong on the "I believe in the free speech but" brigade.

It is a simple formula. The only "caveat" that I have is that a freedom of speech is not a freedom from consequence.

What, by speaking?

If you're still confused about my position, I dunno what to tell you. We're in that phase where you just start repeating things over and over until everybody else disappears and then you declare yourself the winner of the internet for the day.

It's been fun

a reply to: namehere

I apologize for being flippant. But getting people fired over largely innocuous comments only contributes to and incentivizes its reoccurrence, and furthermore, teaches children to see critical speech as violence, as "bullying" and "berating", which only weakens them in the long run. Threatened egotism, which we are teaching our children through acts like this, leads to more aggression than low self-esteem.

a reply to: Shamrock6

It is a simple formula. The only "caveat" that I have is that a freedom of speech is not a freedom from consequence.

Freedom of speech is exactly the freedom of consequences. That's the worse kind of caveat.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

thank you. that's certainly true to a degree but honestly when i heard how he was speaking even though he was calm, he clearly was mocking that kid and not just "debating" or having civil conversation.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

FWIW, i've had my youngest son (who is opinionated like me) come home from school telling me about something crazy the teacher said or did. Im not the type to complain to admin (or a manager), and would typically use it as a lesson to teach my kid what I believe is correct (which has itself changed over the years and i've gotten presumably wiser) as well as a chance to teach about ignoring people that you know are FOS.

May not have helped his education in school...but I think he has a pretty hardened mind when compared to his peers. I consider that a win.

This entire debate from my perspective is purely philosophical.

originally posted by: namehere
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

thank you. that's certainly true to a degree but honestly when i heard how he was speaking even though he was calm, he clearly was mocking that kid and not just "debating" or having civil conversation.

Sure, he definitely wasn't being supportive, but it was civil conversation by any standards.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

FWIW, i've had my youngest son (who is opinionated like me) come home from school telling me about something crazy the teacher said or did. Im not the type to complain to admin (or a manager), and would typically use it as a lesson to teach my kid what I believe is correct (which has itself changed over the years and i've gotten presumably wiser) as well as a chance to teach about ignoring people that you know are FOS.

May not have helped his education in school...but I think he has a pretty hardened mind when compared to his peers. I consider that a win.

This entire debate from my perspective is purely philosophical.

We want nothing more than to protect our children from harm, and that includes from mockery, uncomfortable speech, and even losing in competitions. But I would argue we've created a monster, and infantilized entire generations in doing so.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: projectvxn

There was a video, a review by the Board, and a decision made based on those standards as shown by the source article.

Have you seen it?

Yes I have