Video games do NOT lead to violence. Period.

originally posted by: bally001
a reply to: Iconic

Okay, yeah, do you have any kids. I have 7. Last 2 love their violent videos especially when they are killings cops, ambulance people, welfare, fire brigade and anyone else that step in the way of them achieving crime stats. One of them now is contemplating suicide.

Now, I don't advocate this violence and self harm. I shut the internet down. The last 2 living at home have become the most antisocial, violent and self harming kids I know. Give me some cred. Its the internet. No respect for human life.

Perhaps educate me as a father that real life deserves living and not shooting up cops and slashing your wrists. For crying out aloud. One life is worth saving as opposed to the internet where living normal is just getting dusted.

Perhaps you'd like to be one of the people that my child snuffs. Or in the case of the other, getting wasted so they can waste others. It's all educational on the net. Ohh! To snuff the net while they are swearing and cussing only inflames the hurt they direct to me and their beautiful mother. Stuff the internet and its games.

kind regards,

bally

Not to be too rude and insensitive but have you ever thought that the Video games aren't the problem, but instead they are what is affording them some release and allowing them to live? That they are using the games as a means to excise their anger and resentment? Also is it not also more likely that your children have some under lying problem beyond what you or your wife are aware? While I truly am sorry that you have to deal with this situation and honestly hope that it improves for everyone involved. I feel to foster the blame off onto video games without first exploring every possible avenue is simply unfair, unfair to the child and unfair to your wife and yourself.

originally posted by: rickymouse

No issues with either daughter, the young one owns a business and employs maybe thirty to forty people, the oldest one is a live at home mom, her kids play violent video games. I can tell by talking to them that I will never teach them to shoot, both boys are wreckless with even toy guns, shooting disks at each other and some sort of darts with no tips, they do not even wear the goggles they are supposed to wear. I have to pass on my guns, I am probably not giving them a gun, my brothers son also is not responsible. He played too much video games too. I doubt if any of these kids would go out and shoot anyone purposely, but they would be extremely hard to get to be safe with a gun. Their instinct is to just swing the gun around, that could be dangerous with a real gun.

So, from first hand knowing lots of kids who have played a lot of violent video games, I definitely see that these people are not safe with a gun, mostly in that they are wreckless. They cannot properly comprehend that they can easily hurt someone by accident. My youngest daughter will probably get all my guns and she can take care of distributing them. Most of my guns have been in my family for at least three generations.

I would argue that it is lack of forethought on your part that precipitated their carelessness with firearms. You have apparently never taken the time to show them the difference between a real gun and a toy or digital gun (that's how your post made it sound). It's not their fault that the only "gun safety lessons" they have received is from video games, that's your fault (and the fault of your family). Maybe if you took the time to explain and educate them in the dangers of what a real gun is capable they will see reason and learn to be responsible. In the end, if you want them to be safe with guns, you have to teach them to be safe with guns, period!

I am a product of the 80's, so I was raised around guns, big pick ups, and violent video games. I can tell you my father and brother made sure I knew how to properly handle a gun, before I was ever aloud to shoot one. They also made sure that I knew what I was seeing on screen was in no way real, and that what would happen in real life would be very different, and stressed it to me every time the idea of target shooting came up. It was very important to them that I understood the differences. As a result I knew from a young age the difference between a gun and the plastic toy I was wielding.

Also while I can understand your point about how they handle the disk and foam dart shooters, you have to realize that the velocity of those rounds isn't enough to cause any real damage. Yeah your eye might sting for a while (maybe even a black eye if you were point blank) if you got a dart directly too it, but you aren't going to loose an eye (the glasses are really only provided to reduce the possibility of law suit for the company). This is of course assuming that they aren't the type to affix tacs or pins to the end of the dart (for more excitement) as that would obviously cause damage above and beyond what the company/country considers safe. Disk shooters do tend to hurt a bit more than the darts, but that is mostly down to how they are shaped and how a small edge focuses the point of impact. However I again must point out that the velocity of these disks is much to slow to cause any sort of serious injury... unless intentional.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
So you are completely unwilling to admit there is even a possibility that 8 to 13 year olds playing Grand Theft Auto will become desensitized to stealing and violence? Or that the same age range shooting and blowing up others in first person shooters couldn't even have the remote possibility of leading to violence? Because if you watch youtube there are plenty of examples of kids going into a complete psycho rage over just minor things that happen to them in the game.

How about the nine year old who just recently shot his sister for not giving him a controller. There's zero chance the video game had even the slightest impact on this behavior? Another boy in Cleveland shot his parents when they wouldn't let him play Halo 3.

There's no shortage of stories like this. I think you're crazy not to think there is even a hint of influence from shooting people in video games all day and shooting someone in real life.

Ok and what about the MILLIONS who play games DAILY and DON"T go out an create a mass shooting, or don't we count? Yes there are crazy people, I know shocker right? And Crazy people tend to do crazy things, sometimes without provocation or outside stimuli. If one looked hard enough one could likely argue a link between Coffee and mass shootings, or like another poster pointed out Mountain Dew. Just because a few people consume these drinks and then go on to cause a mass shooting. Does that mean that coffee or mountain dew are responsible for the shootings? Did they cause it? Did their product induce a radical shift in their thought process that caused them to act out? Of course not! It sounds stupid even as I type it. But this is the logic and mentality of the people who want to blame video games. Use your head for more than a hat rack, actually employ some critical thinking.

originally posted by: hombero
There is more money behind funding studies pro video games. The video game industry is huge. Fact.

Concerned parents struggle to pay their bills, and are probably the most concerned and on the other side of the battle lines. Fact.

Of course there are more studies that show there is no correlation between violent children and video games. It was the same with tobacco.

Critical thinking.

There is even more money to be made from false studies showing a causation between violent video games and violence in general from the sales of anti-psychotic, anti-depressant, and ADHD drugs... gee I wonder who makes bank then?

Not to mention political posturing and the money they collect from contributors (lobbyists) to their campaign. Or the ad revenue generated from keeping a non story (*) in the headlines to push a political agenda. Nope nothing to see here, of course not.

(*by non story I am obviously referring to the need to blame video games and not the actual events themselves)

originally posted by: yuppa
[B]i never seen a bible get up and murder someone have you? [/B].

Nope but it would simultaneously scare the crap out of me and convince me of something MORE out there... not really sure which would be more scary to be honest.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: howtonhawky

Brainwashing a person with a game you mean.

yes that would be possible and is likely what many are suggesting here by claiming that so called triggers are in the code and can be activated. For that you would need to have most consoles hooked up to the webs at all times. surely everybody is not hooked up to the web at all times.

originally posted by: looneylupinsrevenge

originally posted by: rickymouse

No issues with either daughter, the young one owns a business and employs maybe thirty to forty people, the oldest one is a live at home mom, her kids play violent video games. I can tell by talking to them that I will never teach them to shoot, both boys are wreckless with even toy guns, shooting disks at each other and some sort of darts with no tips, they do not even wear the goggles they are supposed to wear. I have to pass on my guns, I am probably not giving them a gun, my brothers son also is not responsible. He played too much video games too. I doubt if any of these kids would go out and shoot anyone purposely, but they would be extremely hard to get to be safe with a gun. Their instinct is to just swing the gun around, that could be dangerous with a real gun.

So, from first hand knowing lots of kids who have played a lot of violent video games, I definitely see that these people are not safe with a gun, mostly in that they are wreckless. They cannot properly comprehend that they can easily hurt someone by accident. My youngest daughter will probably get all my guns and she can take care of distributing them. Most of my guns have been in my family for at least three generations.

I would argue that it is lack of forethought on your part that precipitated their carelessness with firearms. You have apparently never taken the time to show them the difference between a real gun and a toy or digital gun (that's how your post made it sound). It's not their fault that the only "gun safety lessons" they have received is from video games, that's your fault (and the fault of your family). Maybe if you took the time to explain and educate them in the dangers of what a real gun is capable they will see reason and learn to be responsible. In the end, if you want them to be safe with guns, you have to teach them to be safe with guns, period!

I am a product of the 80's, so I was raised around guns, big pick ups, and violent video games. I can tell you my father and brother made sure I knew how to properly handle a gun, before I was ever aloud to shoot one. They also made sure that I knew what I was seeing on screen was in no way real, and that what would happen in real life would be very different, and stressed it to me every time the idea of target shooting came up. It was very important to them that I understood the differences. As a result I knew from a young age the difference between a gun and the plastic toy I was wielding.

Also while I can understand your point about how they handle the disk and foam dart shooters, you have to realize that the velocity of those rounds isn't enough to cause any real damage. Yeah your eye might sting for a while (maybe even a black eye if you were point blank) if you got a dart directly too it, but you aren't going to loose an eye (the glasses are really only provided to reduce the possibility of law suit for the company). This is of course assuming that they aren't the type to affix tacs or pins to the end of the dart (for more excitement) as that would obviously cause damage above and beyond what the company/country considers safe. Disk shooters do tend to hurt a bit more than the darts, but that is mostly down to how they are shaped and how a small edge focuses the point of impact. However I again must point out that the velocity of these disks is much to slow to cause any sort of serious injury... unless intentional.

Well, I know that I am not going to teach them to shoot, that is my choice. Unless I see a drastic change in their attitude, I will not give them any of my guns either. That is my choice, not yours. I would tell other people if your kids exhibit these behaviors that they should also not take their kids or grandkids to the rifle range and teach them to shoot too. Now everyone has their own rights to have guns, I will not force my beliefs on others, but I am just trying to caution people to beware of things and trust their instincts.

If you want to teach your careless kids who do not believe in self discipline with guns to shoot, then that is your privilege. I have always assessed situations to try to properly evaluate the future problems that can occur.

You can knock out an eye with one of those disk shooters, that is why every one of the guns says that safety glasses should be worn with them. If the kids do not follow the safety instructions than they should not be allowed to have them. Hopefully you do not have kids, I know two people who lost an eye when they were young from fooling around, one lost his eye from a friend shooting a BB gun.

You say you were taught from young by your parents, that is good, my grandkids were never taught respect for a gun when they were young, now they are twelve and fourteen, they are set in their ways already and way harder to train. My daughter did not want me teaching them to do shooting when they were young, She sensed that they were desensitized by the games they play. I believe she is correct in her assumption after observing the way they are acting. Next window of oportunity will be when they are maybe in their thirties, after they learn how their actions effect their future.

Every mass shooting over last 20 years has one thing in common... and it's not guns...

And it's not video games, either.

It's antidepressants.

www.naturalnews.com...

I’ll throw my 2 cents in as a millennial, hardly I’ll be 31 next month. I grew up on computers and computer games and played every genre and way too damn often, not gunna lie. Video games imo could easily make someone more prone to shooting a person in real life. For example I myself would pay a 1000$ for a copy for soldier of fortune 3 if it ever came out. Soldier of Fortune 2: Double Helix was revolutionary in the gaming industry, with realistic entry and exit wounds dozens and dozens of ways of dismemberment including fingers in various cut off points.

Yes it was a lot more satisfying doing that assasination mission with a sniper rifle seeing their brains slam against the wall slide down and see your perfect forehead shot with the exit wound exploding out the back with brains and blood. So yea I think these kids just want the real stuff just like how every gamer wants everything as realistic as possible. Although it can never match the real stuff so they go create it, IMHO I believe a lot of school shootings are driven and inspired by it.

PS I played all the Elite Sniper series not in the same ballpark.

a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge

Cheers for your thoughtful reply.

It's not unlike we don't nurture the young ones and offer any means of other distractions. They have a very good lifestyle where we live and we treat them with the utmost respect. Perhaps that's the problem. I don't know. But outside their respective rooms they become very distracted to everyday living, sports, schoolwork and tend to show signs of nervousness and need to get back to the games and social media.

In saying that, their friends, who come and stay occasionally and they might spend overnight at other places, their time is spent constantly on the games. My only concern in that regards is the foul, violent language and disregard for us in our home. It has turned to violence and anger directed to us. Kinda the reverse of the old days when parents scolded their children. (I'm talking 60's and 70's.). Yeah sure, maybe my wife and I are wrong but we never swore or threatened our parents and sure as hell never lifted a finger towards them.

We hope we'll sought through it all as they grow out of their teens.

kind regards,

bally

originally posted by: rickymouse
Well, I know that I am not going to teach them to shoot, that is my choice. Unless I see a drastic change in their attitude, I will not give them any of my guns either. That is my choice, not yours. I would tell other people if your kids exhibit these behaviors that they should also not take their kids or grandkids to the rifle range and teach them to shoot too. Now everyone has their own rights to have guns, I will not force my beliefs on others, but I am just trying to caution people to beware of things and trust their instincts.

If you want to teach your careless kids who do not believe in self discipline with guns to shoot, then that is your privilege. I have always assessed situations to try to properly evaluate the future problems that can occur.

You can knock out an eye with one of those disk shooters, that is why every one of the guns says that safety glasses should be worn with them. If the kids do not follow the safety instructions than they should not be allowed to have them. Hopefully you do not have kids, I know two people who lost an eye when they were young from fooling around, one lost his eye from a friend shooting a BB gun.

You say you were taught from young by your parents, that is good, my grandkids were never taught respect for a gun when they were young, now they are twelve and fourteen, they are set in their ways already and way harder to train. My daughter did not want me teaching them to do shooting when they were young, She sensed that they were desensitized by the games they play. I believe she is correct in her assumption after observing the way they are acting. Next window of oportunity will be when they are maybe in their thirties, after they learn how their actions effect their future.

First off you are well within your right to not teach them anything about guns, I wasn't trying to force you to do anything. Merely trying to provide a reason, beyond video games being evil, why those kids have no respect for guns (because they were never taught). It is a valid premise, as you admit yourself that your daughter didn't feel that you should. The reason why is frankly immaterial, the end result is the kids never learned. To say that it is the fault of video games that the kids are "desensitized" to violence and that's why they act out, behave poorly with toy guns, is misleading to say the least. As there was never a proper frame work for them to build off of when they became older. I am sorry if you don't want to believe it or if you have some how rationalized it within your mind to being the fault of someone or something else. However the fact remains, if properly trained from a young age kids will have respect for guns (and weapons in general).

As to "knocking out an eye" with one of the disk shooters, I would ask that you provide proof as the search i performed returned results with nothing to do about disk shooters. Not doubting you per say, merely looking for proof of your claims before I attempt rebuttal. Also on this note, I would like to correct myself, from what I've read it is possible to loose your vision temporarily after being struck in the eye at point blank range. So to sum it up, I was wrong to say that it was no worse than a black eye for sure, but it's still not the complete loss of the eye or total blindness others suggest.

The story of the person who lost an eye to a BB gun accident, is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. On one hand you have foam darts moving at approximately 150-250 FPS (stock - depending on model) and on the other you have a 6mm hard metal pellet/ball moving approximately 250 - 2500 FPS (stock - depending on model). Also keep in mind that foam compresses upon impact, where metal doesn't, so the actual energy transfered upon impact will naturally be far less. Those simple facts alone should tell you most of what you need to know.

a reply to: CrazyK22

Children are very impressionable and their little brains are like sponges. It's completely delusional to believe that there's NO WAY that watching violent imagery for years won't affect their neural networks in some way...

At the very least, it's desensitising children to violence/war. It's also making them much better killers - with faster reaction times, better marksmanship skills and an intimate knowledge of tactical strategies and weaponry.

a reply to: bally001

I wish I had some insights to share that would help you through this, but unfortunately I don't. All I can offer is my best wishes that this all settles down with the kids. Hopefully it's just a faze they are going through and that they will eventually grow out of. I know you've likely already either thought or tried this, but have you tried expressing your concerns to one of their best friends to see if they've noticed anything that might be bothering them? I don't know. I wish there was something more I could do to help. Best wishes and Kind Regards to you as well.

a reply to: NeuronDivide

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you either don't play games or only play a very limited type of games. Because if you had played Call of Duty, Battlefield, Battlefront, or any other tactical shooter like that you would know the use of the word Tactical is loose at best. In most cases you run on a very tight path with little or no deviation. The actual tactical elements are kept well hidden from player. Games like GTA or Tom Clancy's Wildlands that allow you to "plan" heists or attacks on bases tend to provide very little in real tactical game play, you are still either constrained by the story or the sprites follow predictable paths with only moderate deviation given certain circumstances. For example in wildlands where if the enemy finds a dead body they will alter their patrol path for x amount of time before returning to the original. Now if you're talking more of a game like Splinter Cell or Metal Gear Solid, they do offer a more tactical feel than the other games. As they tend to rely heavily on stealth and subterfuge over out right gun play, in some cases actually punishing the player for using a gun at all. However, even they are severely lacking compared to what an actual soldier would need to know and do in order to perform most of these missions on a real scale.

I am also going to have to assume that you don't fire guns, since you confused the scope you see in a video games with the skill it actually takes to use one attached to a real gun and actually HIT your target. It is not as easy as games/movies/tv make it out to be, there are a lot of factors that come into play that directly effect your ability to hit said target with any sort of accuracy. It's not just point and shoot, it's a touch more complicated than that. Also on this theme, intimate knowledge of weaponry, Just because you can identify a gun or craft doesn't mean you can actually use it with anything approaching reliability or proficiency.

Finally if we were going to notice an increase in violence related to the consumption of violent media, it should be present currently. Violent video games have been sold for more than 20 years now, movies and even the nightly news for more than 50 years, more than long enough for there to be an upward trend to present in violent crime stats. But that just isn't the case. In most cases violent crime is decreasing or unchanged. Meaning there is little to no evidence to support the claim that violent media induces violent behavior. The truth is that everyone is just looking for someone to blame, someone besides themselves, for why their kids are screwed up. They don't want to admit that they missed the signs or that they screwed up as a parent, so instead they lash out and blame anything they can. It's human nature to not want to admit failure or inadequacy.

I"m guessing most people rely on anecdotal evidence and do not use the scientific method.

a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge

www.nydailynews.com...

www.cbsnews.com...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

www.tapinjury.com...

The disks the daughter bought online were a harder rubber or plastic like product, but they got like fifty of them for the cost of ten Nerf brand ones.

I can keep adding lots of these links showing these things can be dangerous.

I can see the depersonalization in the kids after playing the games, it is easy to spot if you actually look for it. Constant playing of the games seems to make it stick more, especially the online war games where they play against another person. Maybe you are blind to this, I do not know, but pay attention someday and you will notice it. It is not just my grandkids, in fact they are milder than some of the kids I have seen who play these a lot. The kids are saying they are going to kill another kid when they get pissed at them...words do not always mean they will do it but it is an indicator of improper social behavior. Listen to the kids talk once in a while, I know adults tend to zone out what the kids are saying, I did when I was younger, now I am puzzled how come I wasn't paying attention. I think I may have been compromised myself when I grew older not to pay attention to what the youth were saying. I guess a lot of the entitled do not pay attention to their kids, yes, I at one time was entitled and ignorant , I am now aware and concerned that others are unaware that they are entitled. Ignorance if pandemic in this country, it has been by people for a long time, but the number of people who ignore what is happening in their own lives and analyzing if it is correct are increasing. Big increases.

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge

www.nydailynews.com...

www.cbsnews.com...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

www.tapinjury.com...

The disks the daughter bought online were a harder rubber or plastic like product, but they got like fifty of them for the cost of ten Nerf brand ones.

I can keep adding lots of these links showing these things can be dangerous.

No need to continue, I get your point. They can cause serious injury, more so if one buys the cheaper alternatives that are available.

I can see the depersonalization in the kids after playing the games, it is easy to spot if you actually look for it. Constant playing of the games seems to make it stick more, especially the online war games where they play against another person. Maybe you are blind to this, I do not know, but pay attention someday and you will notice it. It is not just my grandkids, in fact they are milder than some of the kids I have seen who play these a lot. The kids are saying they are going to kill another kid when they get pissed at them...words do not always mean they will do it but it is an indicator of improper social behavior. Listen to the kids talk once in a while, I know adults tend to zone out what the kids are saying, I did when I was younger, now I am puzzled how come I wasn't paying attention. I think I may have been compromised myself when I grew older not to pay attention to what the youth were saying. I guess a lot of the entitled do not pay attention to their kids, yes, I at one time was entitled and ignorant , I am now aware and concerned that others are unaware that they are entitled. Ignorance if pandemic in this country, it has been by people for a long time, but the number of people who ignore what is happening in their own lives and analyzing if it is correct are increasing. Big increases.

I fear we will have to agree to disagree my friend, as I can't see us actually coming to an agreement. Our view points are just to different. And you know what, that's fine! we are both aloud to have our own opinion. I hope you have a great day and everything works out for the best with the grandkids.

a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge

I pay attention on what I observe, I always have. But my past ignorance and desire to be nice actually made it so I did not say anything to people. Part of being intelligent is knowing to keep one's mouth shut, I must be losing my genius classification these days.

a reply to: Iconic

I wrote a paper in college saying the same thing (psych major,. Yes, I got my degree). That was the one and only time I got completely hammered by a professor who obviously had 0 objectivity. She lit me up and failed me on that paper. Even she said it was well written and organized. My sources were good and I even addressed the opposing view. She chewed me out in the review though. She said I was illogical and ignoring all evidence to the contrary, which was patently untrue. I had two days to completely redo it the way that she liked it (saying that video games cause violence).

I admit that in order to pass the class, I jumped through that hoop, eve though I didn't believe it. That was the bar none, clearest case of indoctrination in higher education that I had ever experienced. Fall In Lock Step or I Will Fail You. I had run into subtle things before, but that, that was just blatant. Insane.

In general, any thread title that ends in "Case closed" or "Period" is suspect. The science is never settled.