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Media Mind Control - The False Immigration Debate

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posted on Mar, 20 2018 @ 04:05 PM
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originally posted by: sooth

Everything boils down to control and power. Once you realize that a lot of these so-called hot button issues become laughably transparent. None of these people in the state are interested in solving any problems. They are only interested in personal gain and/or collecting souls for their cult...err ideology.


Bingo!

Thanks Sooth




posted on Mar, 20 2018 @ 04:06 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: muzzleflash

Ne'er a truer word has been spoken.

Great OP.



Thanks man, appreciate the support!



posted on Mar, 20 2018 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: smurfy
Well,
It wasn't the MSM who were making the fake news online. Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Bloggers etc all working to make the fake news on Immigration, the Holocast never happened, Populism, Xenophobia, Homophobia, homeland terror....and so on, all done by fecking scrawny keyboard ninjas, all working to a programme, and targeting people and places like ATS for several years, and with people like Bannon, Farage, yiannoupolis, Irish mp's, Breitbart et al on board.
All for the dual purpose of cementing a very right-wing Aministration in the US and a UK brexit on false premises..and of course Russian oligarch government help to boot...no that wasn't MSM, not that they are perfect.
As for controlled narrative, that's stil ultimately in the hands of government and their spymaster shills, because it is they who have the power, unfortunately, the government of today is incompetent, as is the UK government, and everything being done is ham-fisted, and there is no short term solution to make things right.

The MSM, (exculding Fox News) were reporting day and daily on what was really going on, and many people chose to ignore it.


You are brainwashed by the "Left" side of the paradigm.

The people you are blaming are the "Right", who are also brainwashed.

You may not realize it but you are completely mind controlled here. You are so unbelievably bias and uninformed.

I honestly don't even know how to help you. Reread the thread I guess?
Yikes



posted on Mar, 20 2018 @ 04:17 PM
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originally posted by: muzzleflash


You just explained the exact epitome of the extremist mentality here. You also created straw-men arguments in order to support your disagreement.

You see a problem and instead of solving it you put the blinders on and say "But I don't DESERVE that problem so therefore I refuse to address it's root causes!". Meanwhile more immigrants come across the border while you are in lala land.


In fairness deserve may not be the right word. I guess you are saying if there are poor countries we should expect immigrants to come, and then we should do something about them.

I still disagree with this, as I will get to.


1) You think 'helping means exploitation', although you probably don't view giving jobs to Americans as exploitation do you? Though many people here would call it exploitation.

I also specifically said we should stop exploiting them and instead genuinely help them.
Charity only applies band aids, we need to teach them how to fish essentially.

It doesnt matter what you want. The fact is that rather intentionally or not, helping these countries will lead to their exploitation.

We just wanted to help the people of Afghanistan. So we burnt down their hurtful opiate crops at times. After all, opiates are bad. And how did that work out?

A country can only fix their own problems. For the US to go in and try to solve the worlds is arrogance and will lead to exploitation, regardless of your motives.

Take food charity for example. The US could mean totally well and send cheap or free food to a country. But that puts out the local farmers in that country from business, as no one needs to pay the higher prices for their crops. So the country becomes totally dependent on the US, because we meant well.



2) We need to address our POLICIES which is actually pretty inexpensive. We don't have to send anyone money to change a policy. In fact, we can STOP sending corrupt governments money since that's something we do all the time currently.



I agree with not sending money. Yet what policies are you refering to.

This is all vague and a very small issue. It is a myth that the US policies are the reason there are impoverished countries. As long as their are poor countries, and as long as immigrants can have a higher standard of living in the US, they will come here.


3) I never said to give all your money to the poor to prevent them becoming criminals. Clearly we have rich criminals who have millions of dollars yet still commit various crimes, so more money won't change that.

Are you trying to say that if you lived near a ghetto where the shootings and drug crime rates are increasing that you won't go down to city hall and start demanding policies be changed in order to remedy this growing disaster?


Your scenario is a little off. How about the ghetto is having murders, and city hall refuses to enforce the law. In fact, there is a large movement to say that anyone who wants to enforce these murder laws is a racist, and we should allow all murders there.

That is more akin to the illegal immigration debate, were suggesting that we tell the poor immigrants they have no right to get in to this country, and the US has every right to enforce its borders gets you labeled a racist (not saying you are doing that).

My solution to immigration would be to allow any immigration that could pass a background check, and eliminating any welfare whatsoever.

If you can come here and make this country better, I dont care your race, gender religion, etc.

This is an immigration system desgined to help the country, not to help the poor of the world.

The only thing that will solve poor conditions in those countries is the people of those countries changing their own governments for themselves.




It sounds like to you there are only 2 ways to handle a problem, throw money at it or do nothing.
It ridiculous!

I think you should change your policies Grambler.
In fact I wrote this thread with you and a few others specifically in mind.

Let's debate this.


I have no problem debating it.

I have two fundamental disagreements with you.

1. I feel no obligation to take in the poor from anywhere in the world.

2. I feel that policies designed to help those countries is bot the duty of our government, and will backfire and make those countries worse off, as history has proven.
edit on 20-3-2018 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2018 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

I have two fundamental disagreements with you.

1. I feel no obligation to take in the poor from anywhere in the world.

2. I feel that policies designed to help those countries is bot the duty of our government, and will backfire and make those countries worse off, as history has proven.


This isn't about if you are obligated to do so or not, or if you deserve anything or not.

This is about reality and what is happening and what can be done to fix that as soon as possible.

1 = You are taking in millions of poor a year. Wake up.
2 = We didn't actually try to help those countries, we purposely set them up with crazy dictators and turned them into military juntas or created sweatshops or criminal enterprises etc.

History shows that when we helped the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Japan, etc after WW2 they turned out pretty great and are on their own feet now.
edit on 3/20/2018 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2018 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

I feel like what this really boils down to is that you don't want to help anyone and keep blaming everyone else for the masses of immigrants in the street in front of your house.

I'm going to have to say I think you are trapped in too much idealism, are too preoccupied with your war against the liberals, and too stubborn to handle the issue at hand effectively.

We need solutions not platitudes.
We need effective solutions soon.

Your proposal "ignore the problem, not my fault!" actually allows it to fester and we will just have more millions of immigrants coming over increasingly.

Wait a minute - you're pro-illegal immigration aren't you?
You sly devil you had me there for a minute....



posted on Mar, 20 2018 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

I gotta go take care of some stuff so just be patient I'll respond to your next counter.
Thanks by the way.



posted on Mar, 20 2018 @ 04:40 PM
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originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Grambler

I have two fundamental disagreements with you.

1. I feel no obligation to take in the poor from anywhere in the world.

2. I feel that policies designed to help those countries is bot the duty of our government, and will backfire and make those countries worse off, as history has proven.


This isn't about if you are obligated to do so or not, or if you deserve anything or not.

This is about reality and what is happening and what can be done to fix that as soon as possible.

1 = You are taking in millions of poor a year. Wake up.
2 = We didn't actually try to help those countries, we purposely set them up with crazy dictators and turned them into military juntas or created sweatshops or criminal enterprises etc.

History shows that when we helped the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Japan, etc after WW2 they turned out pretty great and are on their own feet now.


You are right, its not about my obligation.

It is about the obligation of the US government. That obligation is to the people of the United states, not to poor people around the world.

We have plenty of poor people in this country that are government woefully underserves.

1. Yes the government takes in millions of poor people a year; it shouldnt.

2. Many people voting for those policies did think they were helping those countries. I get that you are an idealist, and you think that if the righteous were just in power, then their attempts to help other countries would be different, and would be altrusitic and work.

They wouldnt. They would stem from arrogance, and would cause resentment in other countries for the arrogant foreigners coming in and "teaching them how to fish"

The US giving money to first world countries to rebuild from the ravages of war is far different than arrogantly trapzing the world to teach people how to fish and make every country a wealthy utopia.



posted on Mar, 20 2018 @ 04:43 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Grambler

I have two fundamental disagreements with you.

1. I feel no obligation to take in the poor from anywhere in the world.

2. I feel that policies designed to help those countries is bot the duty of our government, and will backfire and make those countries worse off, as history has proven.


This isn't about if you are obligated to do so or not, or if you deserve anything or not.

This is about reality and what is happening and what can be done to fix that as soon as possible.

1 = You are taking in millions of poor a year. Wake up.
2 = We didn't actually try to help those countries, we purposely set them up with crazy dictators and turned them into military juntas or created sweatshops or criminal enterprises etc.

History shows that when we helped the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Japan, etc after WW2 they turned out pretty great and are on their own feet now.


The US giving money to first world countries to rebuild from the ravages of war is far different than arrogantly trapzing the world to teach people how to fish and make every country a wealthy utopia.



So it was far different when we gave money to help white European countries + South Korea and Japan.

Interesting.
edit on 3/20/2018 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2018 @ 04:50 PM
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originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: Grambler

I feel like what this really boils down to is that you don't want to help anyone and keep blaming everyone else for the masses of immigrants in the street in front of your house.

I'm going to have to say I think you are trapped in too much idealism, are too preoccupied with your war against the liberals, and too stubborn to handle the issue at hand effectively.

We need solutions not platitudes.
We need effective solutions soon.

Your proposal "ignore the problem, not my fault!" actually allows it to fester and we will just have more millions of immigrants coming over increasingly.

Wait a minute - you're pro-illegal immigration aren't you?
You sly devil you had me there for a minute....


I have no masses of immigrants in front of my house. I have many poor US citizens that are struggling, but dann their problems right, the government needs to focus on solving poverty in Mexico or Algeria first.

Again, I harbor no ill will toward any immigrant. If my neighbor was an illegal who just was trying to feed his children, I would do everything in my power to help him.

But neither I nor you are the US government. The government has a duty to work for the benefit of the people of the US, not to make policies based on ending world poverty.

I get it, you are a utopian idealist. You think the majority of the worlds problems are because of US policy. Sadly, extreme poverty existed long before the US, and will exist long after.

The US should mind its own business, and stop trying to solve the worlds problems, as recent history has shown us this almost always leads to making matters worse.

My solution isnt to ignore the problem.

This is the same argument used in the war oon poverty. I feel that those policies, which LBJ is said to have said would have the n******* voting democrat for the next 60 years, hurt the black community. I feel that they were enacted by scared white people that were afraid if blacks were just treated as equal to everyone else, many of them might just prove that they were every bit or even more capabale as whites.

But now because I am against those policies, I am accused of not caring about black people, when the truth is I do care, I just think the policies geared toward helping them did the opposite.

The same with "teaching other countries to fish" Its arrogant, it leads to the US presuming to know whats best for other countries, it breads resentment and reliance to the US, and it makes the problems worse, almost everytime.

I agree with you that the US should stop nation building, I just would go further and say stop meddling in their affairs at all.

You think that your ideas are so good that they justify US interfence, I disagree.

I think that as private individual, I will continue to give effgorts to help poor countries as i see fit. But that is not the role of the US government.

The way the US government can solve the immigration problem is to enforce its curent immgration laws, and let other countries deal with their own problems as they see fit.



posted on Mar, 20 2018 @ 04:52 PM
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originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Grambler

I have two fundamental disagreements with you.

1. I feel no obligation to take in the poor from anywhere in the world.

2. I feel that policies designed to help those countries is bot the duty of our government, and will backfire and make those countries worse off, as history has proven.


This isn't about if you are obligated to do so or not, or if you deserve anything or not.

This is about reality and what is happening and what can be done to fix that as soon as possible.

1 = You are taking in millions of poor a year. Wake up.
2 = We didn't actually try to help those countries, we purposely set them up with crazy dictators and turned them into military juntas or created sweatshops or criminal enterprises etc.

History shows that when we helped the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Japan, etc after WW2 they turned out pretty great and are on their own feet now.


The US giving money to first world countries to rebuild from the ravages of war is far different than arrogantly trapzing the world to teach people how to fish and make every country a wealthy utopia.



So it was far different when we gave money to help white European countries + South Korea and Japan.

Interesting.


Do I detect an accusation of racism?

Brilliant.

It was different because it was war reconstruction. If the US wants to give Libya war reconstruction money, so be it.

Instead, Obama, the man of peace, went in and helped the poor libyans that were suffering under an evil dictator, and freed them.

How is that working out?

But yes, we know, if only you were in charge, your interfence in other countries would be really helpful to them.



posted on Mar, 20 2018 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: muzzleflash

The Powers that Be seek to maintain their power and exploit the populations of each nation including our own. The goal is to control the situation in such a way as to further their own hegemony and hierarchy while maintaining supremacy and dominion.

IV. The Real Solutions

A) The first and easiest way to solve the immigration crisis is to look at a nation's foreign policy. In this case we are discussing the United States which, by extension is part of various international treaties like NATO and through the United Nations.

By first admitting to and realizing that an "immigration crisis" is largely a result of various policy decisions, we can then take a look at individual policies and see what changes can be made to improve the situation and possibly aid towards developing a proper remedy.



BAM! Thank you.

For anyone who doesn't believe there is a deep state (with global members) must not pay attention to the fact that our foreign policy doesn't change no matter which party color is in office.

Not to hijack your thread on this one aspect, but it does highlight that the root of all these problems are the ONLY place any real solution can be levied.

All else is deflection and divineness...as you rightly define with that observation.


edit on 20-3-2018 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2018 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Our government creates problems, it does not solve them. In fact they are spending trillions of dollars a year on accomplishing very little in terms of positive progress.

I never said that the US govt is the originator of the world's problems, and I never believed in that. You created a straw-man because you are by definition, grasping at straws.

Now, what I suggested is that we change our policies with other governments. For example we can "End the Drug War", which actually saves the taxpayers a lot of money.

Strange how you avoided this topic multiple times now though I kept mentioning it.
40 years, 1 trillion $, War on Drugs failed

MEXICO CITY (AP) — After 40 years, the United States' war on drugs has cost $1 trillion and hundreds of thousands of lives, and for what? Drug use is rampant and violence even more brutal and widespread.

Even U.S. drug czar Gil Kerlikowske concedes the strategy hasn't worked.

"In the grand scheme, it has not been successful," Kerlikowske told The Associated Press. "Forty years later, the concern about drugs and drug problems is, if anything, magnified, intensified."


Why are you avoiding this?
Is it because you secretly support what is going on?

Why would you argue with me so strongly (and keep deflecting and building straw-men) when it was clear this was my main point? Even in the OP I mentioned this.

Do you support keeping narcotics illegal? Do you support law enforcement agencies in the US using deadly force and breaking into thousands of homes a year all because of drug possession? Do you support pouring billions of dollars into foreign nations to build up their drug armies so they can 'fight the war on drugs' too?

It seems to me like your position is the interventionist big money spending militaristic point of view. My entire thread was aimed at attacking that point of view and suggesting that the MSM specifically hides this solution by keeping both sides focused on false solutions that will never work.



posted on Mar, 21 2018 @ 02:12 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler


The US should mind its own business, and stop trying to solve the worlds problems, as recent history has shown us this almost always leads to making matters worse.

My solution isnt to ignore the problem.

This is the same argument used in the war oon poverty. I feel that those policies, which LBJ is said to have said would have the n******* voting democrat for the next 60 years, hurt the black community. I feel that they were enacted by scared white people that were afraid if blacks were just treated as equal to everyone else, many of them might just prove that they were every bit or even more capabale as whites.



This is exactly what I mean by deflection and a straw-man tactic.
Why would you do that?

Me: The MSM is lying to everyone, we need to change our policies and stop propping up dictatorships and stop raping other nations economically.

You: We should mind our own business (****which was my original argument****) then you proceed to say essentially - "Muzzleflash is saying the same stuff LBJ said" which is completely not what I said.

--The worst thing I said (in your mind) was that we should 'teach a man how to fish', which in my mind, all that requires is a link to a website with a walk-through on fishing (meaning we can share knowledge extremely cheaply these days).

You somehow took this as "we should give them a trillion dollars!", which is actually the "give them fish daily", the exact opposite of my proposed solution.

Why would you knowingly twist what I said like that to try and paint me as something I'm not?

Is it because you watch TV or listen to radio talking god-heads everyday and believe in them so wholeheartedly that my OP offended your sensitivities and revealed that your political talking god-heads are actually lying to you? Well they are lying to you AND brainwashing you into believing all of this one-sided gibberish.

Even if you didn't knowingly respond so defensively I'd presume it was subconsciously. I offended your MSM-religion, I guess. Why else would someone go so far out of the way to twist an argument around 360degrees like that? I can't think of any better explanations.



posted on Mar, 21 2018 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler


It was different because it was war reconstruction. If the US wants to give Libya war reconstruction money, so be it.

Instead, Obama, the man of peace, went in and helped the poor libyans that were suffering under an evil dictator, and freed them.

How is that working out?

But yes, we know, if only you were in charge, your interfence in other countries would be really helpful to them.


Interesting how you turned this into "Obama did this and that" immediately, when this thread is actually about how both the Left and Right are one in the same, mindless drones reciting their talking points given to them by their TV or radio politicos.

I guess under your logic that all central American nations are entitled to reconstruction efforts due to the destruction our prohibition and war on drugs interventionism policies created too? It was a "War" and it involved dozens of nations.

And the "War on Terror" has involved many nations too, most of the middle east, parts of Africa, parts of Indonesia or the Philipines, etc.

All of them are essentially zones in our wars that have been going on for decades, and they've suffered plenty of damages as a result of our misguided policies.

War on Terror cost $$$


It added $2 trillion to the debt as of the FY 2018 budget.


But for some reason you think that continuing these extremely costly "Wars" and just building a wall will solve all this? And on top of that you want to pretend we had no hand in it, and you wanna pretend that we aren't obligated at all to help solve the problems we created??



posted on Mar, 21 2018 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: Grambler

Our government creates problems, it does not solve them. In fact they are spending trillions of dollars a year on accomplishing very little in terms of positive progress.

I never said that the US govt is the originator of the world's problems, and I never believed in that. You created a straw-man because you are by definition, grasping at straws.


From you op.


By first admitting to and realizing that an "immigration crisis" is largely a result of various policy decisions, we can then take a look at individual policies and see what changes can be made to improve the situation and possibly aid towards developing a proper remedy.


No its not. Immigration is largely the result of the US having a higher standard of living than people in impoverished countries, and them want to get a part of that.

So yes, you did say that US policy decsiions were LARGLY responsible for the immigration crisis, and you are wrong.


Now, what I suggested is that we change our policies with other governments. For example we can "End the Drug War", which actually saves the taxpayers a lot of money.


Why are you avoiding this?
Is it because you secretly support what is going on?


No, I am against the drug war, as I have said many times. However, it has nothing to do with immigration.

Tell me, how will ending the drug war stop illegal immigration? Will it magically make poor countries wealthy, and therefore no one will want to leave?

Why did the amount of illegals decrease during the recession, even though the war on drugs continued?

The war on drugs has very little to do with illegal immigration. I may prop up violent people in this couintry and others, which is very bad, and but one reason it needs to end, but it will not stop people from wanting to come to the US.

In fact, ending the war on drugs will make the US a better place, which will mean even more people will want to come legally and illegally.



posted on Mar, 21 2018 @ 02:56 PM
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originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Grambler


The US should mind its own business, and stop trying to solve the worlds problems, as recent history has shown us this almost always leads to making matters worse.

My solution isnt to ignore the problem.

This is the same argument used in the war oon poverty. I feel that those policies, which LBJ is said to have said would have the n******* voting democrat for the next 60 years, hurt the black community. I feel that they were enacted by scared white people that were afraid if blacks were just treated as equal to everyone else, many of them might just prove that they were every bit or even more capabale as whites.



This is exactly what I mean by deflection and a straw-man tactic.
Why would you do that?

Me: The MSM is lying to everyone, we need to change our policies and stop propping up dictatorships and stop raping other nations economically.

You: We should mind our own business (****which was my original argument****) then you proceed to say essentially - "Muzzleflash is saying the same stuff LBJ said" which is completely not what I said.


No that is not what I or you said.

You said we need to change our policies because they are largely responisble for the immigration situation, and eleborated that we need to help[ other countries out in some nebulous way.

I said that is not the cause of immigration, and we should not be trying to help other countries out at all. Instead we should stop distorous foriegn interventions, bot militarily as you agree, and through other manners,

You disagree, and think we should help them in other ways.

I explained how no matter how well inetntioned, if the US intervenes to hgelp countries out of poverty, they will be exploited. You just say "NUh uh!!!"

Then you accuise me of not wanting to help, along with implying I am racsit, which is disgusting.

Thats why I brought up the LBJ thing, not saying you are advocating anything he said, just showing how much like the people that say being against the war on poverty means you dont care about blcaks, you are saying me disagreeing with you means I dont care abouit immigrants.

That is childish, ridiculous and absurd. And then you have the nerve to say I am straw manning you. I never once accused you of being cold herarted or not caring.

But go on, keep telling me, who you asked to have a debate, who you said you wrote the OP partially for, is a bad person because I disagree with you.



--The worst thing I said (in your mind) was that we should 'teach a man how to fish', which in my mind, all that requires is a link to a website with a walk-through on fishing (meaning we can share knowledge extremely cheaply these days).


This is the greatest thing I have read today!!!!

Call the UN!!! All of the trillions of dollars to fight poverty world wide, and here we just needed to post a youtube video showing how to fish!!!

This is excatly the arrogance I am talking about!

Do you realize howe absurd th9is is!

Oh, I can do one better!!

Why dont we just all hold hands and sing love songs, and leave the power of love beat starvation, poverty, disease, and the other reasons people want to immigrate to the US!



You somehow took this as "we should give them a trillion dollars!", which is actually the "give them fish daily", the exact opposite of my proposed solution.


I did not say that. I said the US should not be concerned with eneacting policies to solve poverty in other countries, and I said that history shows that these attempts lead to exploitation and make matters worse.



Is it because you watch TV or listen to radio talking god-heads everyday and believe in them so wholeheartedly that my OP offended your sensitivities and revealed that your political talking god-heads are actually lying to you? Well they are lying to you AND brainwashing you into believing all of this one-sided gibberish.

Even if you didn't knowingly respond so defensively I'd presume it was subconsciously. I offended your MSM-religion, I guess. Why else would someone go so far out of the way to twist an argument around 360degrees like that? I can't think of any better explanations.



I dont watch the MSM much at all, I fight against them daily on ATS.

Again, you are so arrogant and childish, you assume anytone who disagree with you must have no compassion or be a MSM stooge.

So I guess if someone thinks presenting links on youtube teaching people how to fish and other things wont solve the immigration crisis, they aare all evil followers of the MSM.

Yeop, I see you really wanted to have a serious debate.
edit on 21-3-2018 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2018 @ 03:10 PM
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originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Grambler


It was different because it was war reconstruction. If the US wants to give Libya war reconstruction money, so be it.

Instead, Obama, the man of peace, went in and helped the poor libyans that were suffering under an evil dictator, and freed them.

How is that working out?

But yes, we know, if only you were in charge, your interfence in other countries would be really helpful to them.


Interesting how you turned this into "Obama did this and that" immediately, when this thread is actually about how both the Left and Right are one in the same, mindless drones reciting their talking points given to them by their TV or radio politicos.


You think you are so special and diiferent than Obama or any other politician.

You think that them and anyone that supported them werent interested in helping other countries, they were all evil.

You are the most dangerous kind of idealist, one who thinks that if only you had all of the pwoer, you would be different and do things right.

You are not just advocating to end the war on drugs (if that is your argiument, it will do next to nothing to solve the immigration problem)

You are saying the US should enact policies to help other countries from being poor. Obama, or at least many of his followers, said that exact same thing, and used it as justioficatuion for things that made matters worse.

That is why the US government has NO BUSINESS intervcening in other countries, period!

I know iknow, you are perfect, and if you were in charge, you would only interven with sunshine and rainbows, and everything would be perfect.

But your not in charge. As soon as yopu push for the idea, the US government should enact policies to keep the world out of poverty to end them immigrated here illegally, someone in the futurer, rather well meaning or not, will intercven in a way that will be disatrous, as recent history shows.




And the "War on Terror" has involved many nations too, most of the middle east, parts of Africa, parts of Indonesia or the Philipines, etc.

All of them are essentially zones in our wars that have been going on for decades, and they've suffered plenty of damages as a result of our misguided policies.


But for some reason you think that continuing these extremely costly "Wars" and just building a wall will solve all this? And on top of that you want to pretend we had no hand in it, and you wanna pretend that we aren't obligated at all to help solve the problems we created??


And you have lost the plot.

I have, again and again and again on here siad the US should stop interfeing in other countries, starting with their disatorus wars. In fact, one of my main points of contention with you is that I not only want to end these wars, but all interfernce, some of which you want to keep.

Yet again, you have to assume that anyone who disagrees with you mkust be a bad person cheering for war.

You wanted a serious debate, and this is what you bring to the table?

So far we got end the war opn drugs and place links to videos teaching people how to fish, and ow we have no more immigration crisis.

Go on, get into the details. How soon will the 11 million illegals in the US return to their countries when they have access to youtube videos and the war on drugs has ended?

How soon will poor people from countries like Mexico or haiti or the Ukrain or even Ireland or any other number of countries illegals come from stop coming to the US when they see these videos and the drug war has ended?



posted on Mar, 21 2018 @ 03:46 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

I'm sorry I got onto you so harshly this morning.

Last night I was debating if I should respond by saying "I think we actually agree on most all of this (change interventionist policy, end wars, bla bla)" and defuse the conflict, or if I should just go after your ego and rile you up.

Early this morning I was just imagining Bill Hicks sitting there watching FOX or Infowars and nodding his head profusely agreeing with everything saying "I'm the counter-culture!" or something and I decided, I'm gonna lay into ya for making me picture that scene. Hahaha.

You misspelled so many words writing your responses I couldn't help but crack up a few times there. I totally got to ya, lol.

Next time you gotta walk away and calm down a few minutes before you respond. And don't rush through the response so much. Slow down, take your time.

Ok, now, let's relax our minds and accept that we clash with volatility and there is an impasse. I need to clear my mind so that I can concentrate on creating something beautiful and peaceful.

Maybe we can argue more tomorrow?



posted on Mar, 21 2018 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Oh and an Armistice offer -

You don't call me Obama 2.0 (or whatever that was), a utopian idealist, or an interventionist; and I won't call you a TV puppet, a selfish jerk, or an interventionist either.

In fact, how about no more personal attacks?
That sounds good.

And don't put words in my mouth, and I won't put words in yours.
We just simply don't have time for this nonsense.

I dunno why I played into it (emotions?) but after I realized how mean I spoke towards you I decided it wasn't worth it anymore and so I'm sorry.



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