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Prison Industrial Complex and Us

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posted on Mar, 18 2018 @ 05:15 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker


Privatized prisons at least allows for safer facilities for prisoners and I have seen zero examples of prisoner abuse in the private system.

You see zero defects with anything .

'Murica




posted on Mar, 18 2018 @ 05:22 AM
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a reply to: zosimov

The stanford experiment was instrumental in forming my management style.

Power=responsibility. Greatness lies in reapecting that relationship.



posted on Mar, 18 2018 @ 07:00 AM
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a reply to: zosimov


Another disturbing aspect of our nature highlighted in the film is the way in which many of us view the downtrodden with contempt, and that the more debased a human being is, the more likely others are to treat them with inhumanity. We see this in the general contempt many have for “the poor,” with the way many are more likely to excuse criminal behavior from one dressed sharply (an officer) than from a person shabbily dressed (ghetto youth). CS Lewis makes an excellent point that the better we treat people the more we like them, and that the inverse is also true. In mere Christianity, Lewis writes, “The Germans, perhaps, at first ill-treated the Jews because they hated them: afterwards they hated them much more because they had ill-treated them. The more cruel you are, the more you will hate; and the more you hate, the more cruel you will become — and so on in a vicious circle for ever.”


I think this is where we need to start. As a society, we have become obsessed with punishing and hurting anyone who doesn't tow our line. They don't have to be a threat to anyone... they don't stop anyone else from doing what they want to do... but we don't like it so by golly gee we're going to use the color of law and the point of a gun to MAKE YOU do what we say. Our books are filled with "victimless" crimes. Our jails are filled with "victimless" criminals. That should be our first clue that something is wrong with those laws.

Too often, if we wanted to encourage and promote and empower folks to do the right thing, we could and we would. We can also just walk away and leave them be. But we choose -- nay, we DEMAND!!! -- that those folks be hurt and punished and we don't care who else gets hurt in the process. (But boy-oh-boy some folks sure make a pretty penny in the process!)

And it has become the huge circle jerk you mentioned above. It feeds itself. And then we wonder why there will be those who just take the middle man out of the equation... the police.... and do as they will. We are teaching are kids that might makes right. Especially when we pass and enforce bad laws and then throw our hands up and say, "But we must respect the law!" No. We must respect good laws. We must not respect bad laws. Bad laws are a crime.



posted on Mar, 18 2018 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Absolutely right! I believe that the most honorable people use their leverage to empower and assist others.

I love thinking about how Jesus spent his time teaching and empowering others, and amazed by the concept of using absolute authority to serve others (and therefore God), only.

You are right, a sense of responsibility to others is key (when in a position of power, or any time, really).






posted on Mar, 18 2018 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

I couldn't agree more.

There are absolutely (who would disagree?) people who deserve every inch of their cell. The criminals who harm others with no regard have little sympathy from me (although I would still hold out for the chance of rehabilitation, I wouldn't hold my breath).

HOWEVER, we really should be aware of all that prison/jail robs from a person and make sure the ones in there have really done something deserving of losing physical and psychological health, freedom, sunlight, contact from family, individual dignity, etc.

I really want to spend my time and energy here in empowering endeavors if I can. I believe many of us feel the same way.

Also-- just really wanted to say that your idea that we are teaching kids might makes right by enforcing unjust law is so right. Very incisive way of thinking about it, and I agree.




posted on Mar, 18 2018 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: Boadicea

There are absolutely (who would disagree?) people who deserve every inch of their cell. The criminals who harm others with no regard have little sympathy from me (although I would still hold out for the chance of rehabilitation, I wouldn't hold my breath).


Absolutely -- for their own sake as well as the rest of us. But that also requires a responsibility on our part. There is no justice or any virtue in becoming the same beast. Justice must be tempered with mercy. For everyone's good.


HOWEVER, we really should be aware of all that prison/jail robs from a person and make sure the ones in there have really done something deserving of losing physical and psychological health, freedom, sunlight, contact from family, individual dignity, etc.


Exactly. For those who are a threat to society, they need to be kept out of society. Period. For lesser crimes, especially non-violent crimes and where there is no history of violence, I would much prefer other than incarceration. Home arrest, community service, fines, restitution, supervised living...


I really want to spend my time and energy here in empowering endeavors if I can. I believe many of us feel the same way.


You have my respect and appreciation for that. One of the things that disappoints and frustrates me the most about the national discourse is that we sure hear a lot of rumors and accusations and whining and crying about this, that and the other thing, with lots of opinions, but very few hard facts and evidence, and virtually no practical solutions that don't involve another law to be enforced at the point of a gun.


Also-- just really wanted to say that your idea that we are teaching kids might makes right by enforcing unjust law is so right. Very incisive way of thinking about it, and I agree.



I find the irony strong within the current school gun-control protests... these kids are demanding new laws to be enforced at the point of government guns (that already failed to protect them) because they are afraid of the point of the gun being pointed at them.... might makes right. A sad vicious circle.



posted on Mar, 18 2018 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

The implementation of new laws and regulations is hardly ever the proper response.

We really ought to have more say and be more involved in who, precisely (other than that R or D), we are electing into the legislative branch, and have more interest in exactly what they are doing to earn their keep? Or maybe I am speaking for myself- I usually don't get involved until I get to the voting booth.

I wish more tempered individuals went into politics, less likely to be swayed by bribery and tribalism.
Maybe if I started writing the few who seem to have the most sense something could click.
I would encourage anyone else so inclined to put a pen to the paper and do the same!


edit on 18-3-2018 by zosimov because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2018 @ 03:19 PM
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I found some information about legislators involved in prison reform. Lots going on I didn't know about, and looks like a very good start, but we have a long way to go. Here is an article regarding some of the prison reform being put into effect now (or in the works):
thehill.com...
All dealing with post-sentence programs to better integrate people back into society and get back on their feet. Again, a really great start, but perhaps many of these do not have to get completely uprooted in the first place.

Here seems to be a great resource for legislators interested in tackling the mandatory minimums (old article--2014-- so do not know how many are still involved):
www.nationalreview.com...
edit on 18-3-2018 by zosimov because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2018 @ 03:55 PM
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The largest single factor in our failed criminal justice system is the drug prohibition started with the Harrison Narcotic Act in 1914. About the same time the Fed was hatched.



posted on Mar, 19 2018 @ 11:40 AM
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So much going on that I do not know about. Some more good contact info, as well as the argument from the opposition:
www.cnn.com...

Here is a copy of the Sentencing Reform and Corrections Act, looks like now might be the perfect time to get involved!
www.congress.gov...



posted on Mar, 21 2018 @ 12:54 AM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: zosimov

The stanford experiment was instrumental in forming my management style.

Power=responsibility. Greatness lies in reapecting that relationship.


That experiment played a big role in how I view authority. If I consider someone worthy of listening to or not. It also made me realize that I have to hold myself to a higher standard at all times, to make sure I don't fall into the traps those prison guards fell into.



posted on Mar, 21 2018 @ 02:09 AM
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a reply to: zosimov

The united states imprisons more of its population than any other country irrespective how you chose to measure it.

I doubt there is any such thing as the prison industrial complex IMO. Its simply the profit motive and the greed the profit motive fosters and encourages.

The whole just-us system is motivated and driven by profit hence the foreseeable consequence of:





What does it all add up to - very corrupted politicians, judiciary and prison operators. If these people are corrupted and engage in corrupt business practices where do they belong?

Those who were behind the privatisation of the just-us and prison system, in the first place, must have been well aware of the likely out come.

Now the corruption and greed is so deeply entrenched its likely to take scores of decades to undo.



posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 07:41 AM
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Found this really powerful and successful literature program for incarcerated youth. Their efforts have greatly cut down on recidivism rates (of its members) and helped bring about some great reform regarding youth sentencing.

www.theatlantic.com...

Right now active in the DC area, but looking to expand.




posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 09:20 AM
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originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: zosimov

The united states imprisons more of its population than any other country irrespective how you chose to measure it.

I doubt there is any such thing as the prison industrial complex IMO. Its simply the profit motive and the greed the profit motive fosters and encourages.

The whole just-us system is motivated and driven by profit hence the foreseeable consequence of:





Both the MIC and PIC are terms, figures of speech. They describe things essentially intangible, but very real. The terms are useful in discussion of societal phenomena.

What does it all add up to - very corrupted politicians, judiciary and prison operators. If these people are corrupted and engage in corrupt business practices where do they belong?

Those who were behind the privatisation of the just-us and prison system, in the first place, must have been well aware of the likely out come.

Now the corruption and greed is so deeply entrenched its likely to take scores of decades to undo.








posted on Mar, 28 2018 @ 09:57 AM
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There is so much in here to unravel. The way I see it, this case highlights everything that is wrong with our system.
This page covers all perspectives of the case quite fairly.
Glen McGinnis was executed on Jan 25, 2000. The case drew international attention because McGinnis committed the senseless murder when he was 17, and due to the horrific circumstances of McGinnis's youth.
IMO, the stepdad who raped McGinnis when he was 9 or 10 years old should have received the death penalty, if anyone, for this crime, for with this brutal act and his subsequent brutalization and abandonment of the boy put into his care, he raised a disconnected, unloved, and desperate human... and McGinnis could have served a double life sentence for his brutal crime and for not being able to rise above the most horrendous beginning of a life one could imagine.

Social workers were called to McGinnis's home on three occasions, did nothing. Once after the rape, once after the boy was hit on the head with a baseball bat, and finally when the "parents" poured scalding sausage grease on an 11 year old Glen McGinnis.
After this incident the boy left home and from that time on lived on the streets or in and out of juvenile detention centers.
He showed extreme remorse and regret for his crimes and very honestly spoke of the time of his life when he had no regard for others.
Taught himself and educated himself in jail.
Very complex and sad case, all around.
Details of the case here:
www.clarkprosecutor.org...

MEANWHILE in Colorado, James Holmes incarcerated for life, shown mercy by the jury. (12 dead, 70 injured, NO regard for any life)




edit on 28-3-2018 by zosimov because: (no reason given)




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