School responds to peaceful protest students with a good old fashioned swatting to their thighs ?

originally posted by: cosmickat
Kids, in their formative years, are in school to be educated

WRONG. There's your big mistake right there. Public school is NOT about education.

Tomato/Tomato

Exactly why these allegorical accounts about parents' methods of discipline really are not relevant to the point in the OP

Talking of which...the OP was a reference to the irony involved in reprimanding students who chose to protest violence....with a dose of violence.

I can debate to smack or not to smack all day long..it is not going to change my opinion..or yours ..so really flogging dead horses springs to mind.

a reply to: DAVID64

Fair point. And maybe they indeed were scooping up another issue.
Regardless...it smacks ( no pun intended )of irony...whichever way you flip it.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Thank you for replying. I am right with you on " real world consequences "
Can you imagine if the power companies did come at us with a " switch " if we are late paying the bill ?
Ridiculous.

originally posted by: mikell
It is an antiquated and barbaric and ineffectual method of " parenting " Says a lot more about the parent than it does about some misbehavior by a child.

Not true and history Backs that up

Does it ? Where is this historical reference found exactly ?

originally posted by: cosmickat
a reply to: kaylaluv

Thank you for replying. I am right with you on " real world consequences "
Can you imagine if the power companies did come at us with a " switch " if we are late paying the bill ?
Ridiculous.

Yep. I believe the school did a great disservice by giving the kids an unrealistic choice of punishments. No one can legally give you that kind of a choice in the real world - it shouldn’t be legal in schools. Plus, to your point, it’s teaching them that physical violence is an adequate response. Try swatting someone on the thighs who cuts you off in traffic, and see what happens to you when they call the police.

a reply to: cosmickat

...they were given a choice I must add, take the "swatting" or suspension for a couple of days. They chose the corporal punishment. Administered by the dean of students and witnessed by the assistant principal.

Sounds about right. When I was a kid, I much preferred a whooping to being -- gasp! -- GROUNDED!!! Or, even worse, another hours long lecture about whatever lesson my dad thought we needed at the time... A whooping might sting for a while, but it was over and done with in a flash and I could go about my merry way. But taking away my freedom and liberty? Lecturing me for hours? No way!!!

But here's my problem with this: The "consequences" offered are totally bogus... "You left class and that's bad so we're not going to let you go to class." Where is any logic in that? On the other hand, it would have been more appropriate to say, "You left class, so we're going to make you spend even MORE time in class (or detention), doing the work you missed by leaving... PLUS an extra assignment just for kicks and giggles!"

As a parent, I wouldn't just leave the "discipline" up to the school either, I would also make my kids write a 2,000 word essay justifying their decision to leave class, and what practical and productive purpose that action served. Not so much to punish them, but to ensure that they understand their actions have consequences, and they better be able to back those decisions up with logic and reason -- even if I don't agree -- and stand by them. And, no, "But everyone else did it!" would not be logical and reasonable. I would mock and ridicule them to kingdom come (and they know it!)

originally posted by: cosmickat
a reply to: DAVID64

Ok..not to make this about me..but once again..I suffered the consequences, at school for forgetting homework....or for being late...And at home..for similarly minor things.
I rebelled anyway.
It didn't work.

My question is..what does physical punishment actually teach children ? That it is perfectly acceptable to use physical force to get your message across?

Simple, it teaches them that there are negative consequences to be faced when they have done something wrong.

The hands off parenting approach dosen't always work when dealing with some children.

Boys can get wild and unruly at times and a spanking may be the only way to calm them down a bit.

originally posted by: cosmickat
a reply to: DAVID64



My question is..what does physical punishment actually teach children ? That it is perfectly acceptable to use physical force to get your message across?

Honestly...what it taught me is that when all else fails, it's okay to lose my temper and become violent. I've gone through years of therapy to try and undo this teaching.

a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Thank you for your honesty.

I wish you well. Life sometimes gives us a different lesson to that which was first intended.

I have mixed feelings on this. If my son does something to put his life in danger and will not stop when told the first time, he will certainly get spanked. I think I've spanked him once in his life and that's because he pulled the outlet cover off and was trying to stick a pen in it. He was almost 3 when it happened and he has never messed with the outlets since. Other things he does that I don't want him to do but isn't endangering him he just goes to time out or gets his favorite toys taken from him temporarily until he gets his act together.

However, I'm not sure that I'd EVER want someone besides me or his father (maybe even my parents b/c they are just like me) to swat him EVER. I don't feel like it's their place to punish him, I am his mother, I"m responsible for him and his behavior up to a certain point, I will handle punishments.

Interesting that the kids chose the paddling over suspension. I probably would have too. My other concern is, can they be punished like that for expressing their 1st amendment rights? Or would this not qualify under that?

-Alee

i don't know about the effectiveness of spanking and whatnot but when i was a kid i was well behaved until i started getting paddled, all it did was make me angry, depressed, lazy and introverted with social anxiety. being stern and effective at parenting doesn't require violence, just a loud voice, decisiveness and making a good example with your actions is all you need.

school walkouts are nothing new to america, quit acting like it's a crime to express free speech in this country, in the first place high school is voluntary and in second place high schools and universities are where most school shootings happen so can you blame them for voicing their concern? maybe parents need to pay more attention and give their kids a reason to feel secure, they understand why it happens and they are trying to tell adults who keep refusing to listen. kids act rebellious for a reason, stop blaming everything on them and actually do something for once. they don't even want guns banned they just want direction because they understand that the lack of adult guidance is why this is happening. they are asking for help.

a reply to: NerdGoddess

Thanks for replying.
I think the consequence they suffered was a breach of procedure...specifically they neglected to obtain permission to walk out for 17 minutes to support the protest. So yeah..their choice was between swatting or suspension.
They seemed to have failed by not first obtaining permission to exercise their 1st Amendment.
I would agree that if it is your choice to spank / swat / smack....fair enough....your kids..your job to parent..your choice.
But the thought of another adult spanking or hitting a child makes me cringe.

a reply to: cosmickat


What it looks like is you are looking for validation of your beliefs.

Some people respond well to grounding or loss of privileges other people require something more.

But what is most important as already pointed out, the parents and the kids both agreed to the punishment over In school suspension.

So why the outrage? Its not like the school said your gonna get yours now and proceeded to beat them bloody.

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
a reply to: cosmickat

When will we stop thinking that physical assault against grown up kids actually teaches them any kind of morality ? Seriously....where is the actual logic in this?

When I was a kid, mama telling me"Go to your room" just did not have the same scare factor as "go get me a switch".

Seems to me that when they took prayer and butt whippings out of school is when these school shootings really started. Correlation there perhaps? Its your job as an adult to instruct kids or to endure them.

What does this actually teach them ?

Self discipline. To stop and think , "Hey, is this something mom would pull out the flyswatter and spank me for? If so then maybe I should not do it."

I have a family member who does not believe in spanking her kids. She has two of the most rude, ignorant, unruly, disrespectful kids I have ever seen. I hate even being around them. Contrast that with another family member who gave her kids spankings when they were growing up and deserved it. They made straight A's in school. Always put "sir" or "ma'am" at the end of their sentences, and are never disrespectful to adults.

Maybe we would not be seeing this downward spiral of the younger generations if their parents had used a belt on their butts more.

Yup you are right.

I throw elbows.

But I'm fairly short.

Hip checks work good too.

Bounce them off a wall once or twice and they start to pay attention.

Plausible deniability, too.

Your analogy cosmickat, gave me a chuckle. Power companies nowadays do have a "switch" called a smart meter. Miss a payment and you get "switched" off...

I spanked my kids when they were bad. My wife's and my rule was three whacks and then sit them down and explain to them what went wrong. My son is accelerated in the management at the plant he works and my daughter is second in command at a construction company. Both have told me the spanking was nothing, but they sure hated the talking to afterward. The three wacks were to get their attention...

a reply to: Cancerwarrior

Here is a list of school shootings for you since the 18th century.

en.wikipedia.org...

What you think is the problem isn't the problem.

a reply to: Irishhaf

It's not how it looks then.
Where is my outrageous expression?

originally posted by: cosmickat
a reply to: badw0lf

Some do try to do just that...wonder if they were paddled as they were being " raised "

Bubba beating his kids is a lot different to Jeb teaching his kid right from wrong.

I had the belt used against me quite a lot as a kid. I'm the most pacifist person you can meet. I use words. And I even feel that is wrong, when done in anger.

some say that is even worse, but no one can say I have ever lifted a finger against them. Despite my old man parading me around with welts all over my back laughing.

a reply to: cosmickat

Good for Arkansas--an actual deterrent that possibly works, and even with the punishment as a possibility, there's still an alternative choice for those who purposefully choose to be truant. Plus there's a parent opt-out.

I fail to see the issue, here, as the students had a choice, and so, apparently, did the parents, as it states (according to the quoted student in the article) that the parents had to approve either one of the punishments before they could be administered.

They each got two whole swats, at their choice, instead of "two days of in-school suspension."

Big effin' deal. They got punished for their choice to break school rules, and for ignoring the principle when he told them to return to class. Such behavior needs punished, and at least they won't have a suspension on their record.

As an aside worth mentioning, the quoted student made this comment:

I received my punishment during 6th period. The dean-of-students carried it out while the assistant principal witnessed. The punishment was not dealt with malice or cruelty, in fact, I have the utmost respect for all the adults involved. They were merely doing their job as the school board and school policy dictated. The ‘swats’ were not painful or injuring. It was nothing more than a temporary sting on my thighs. The dean-of-students did stress however that not all punishments like this ended this way.

Grow up, people--this is not going to leave a lasting emotional or mental scar on these students, and they learned that choices have consequences, even if they think that they're doing it for the right reason.

If you truly want to be angry, direct it at the parents who signed off on the punishments, because I'm sure in your mind that they must be horrible people for allowing their kids to choose a physical punishment over suspension for intentionally ditching class.

Boo-effin'-hoo, decisions have consequences. What a terrible life lesson to learn...