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Russian Spy Poisoning Brings £48 Million Reward For Porton Down

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posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:28 AM
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a reply to: angelchemuel

Russia was sending a message. They knew they would be identified.
There were no mistakes or carelessness.




posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: purplemer

If it wasn't Russia that did it then that means Russia has lost control of a deadly weapon because this was theirs exclusively. That means that they have allowed someone to gain access to its chemical arsenal. One way or the other Russia is responsible.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:39 AM
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Russian to Judgement


“The ‘novochok’ group of nerve agents — a very loose term simply for a collection of new nerve agents the Soviet Union were developing fifty years ago — will almost certainly have been analysed and reproduced by Porton Down. That is entirely what Porton Down is there for. It used to make chemical and biological weapons as weapons, and today it still does make them in small quantities in order to research defences and antidotes. After the fall of the Soviet Union Russian chemists made a lot of information available on these nerve agents. And one country which has always manufactured very similar persistent nerve agents is Israel.”



Dismantling former Soviet Union's chemical weapons facilities


Soviet defectors say the Uzbekistan plant was the major research and testing site for a new class of secret, highly lethal chemical weapons called ''Novichok,''



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: Sillyolme

Well, if you think about it, in order for the British chemical weapons research infrastructure to collect a sample from Skripal, or for that matter from any of the scenes involved in this investigation, and confirm its identity, Porton Down must already have had a sample for comparison.

They did not get that by asking nicely at the door of the Kremlin, cap in hand, puppy dog eyes turned upward at the person answering the door.

If Porton Down were able to identify the agent used at all, it means they already had some, which means that the containment of the chemical within Russia must have been penetrated at some point, by some means. Perhaps another defector smuggled a batch of the stuff out? Perhaps it was bought on the black market, having been stolen for profit? In any event, without a sample to match it to, there would be no way to identify the agent used with any specificity at all.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:45 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


I am not an expert on chemical warfare and neither, I assume, are you so we have no idea how the boffins at Porton Down operate or how they do what they do.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:47 AM
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edit on 3152018 by Sillyolme because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:53 AM
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a reply to: oldcarpy

I am an expert in nothing but my trade. However, I know enough about chemistry, and how chemical traces can be identified, to know that without something to compare a sample to, identifying any chemical as being from a specific batch, or telling precisely where it came from, is impossible. It does not matter what it is, soil sample, an acid, a fuel or a particular mix of cocktail.

You cannot identify a sample precisely enough to point at its origins, unless you already have an exemplar for comparison.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:56 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: oldcarpy

I am an expert in nothing but my trade. However, I know enough about chemistry, and how chemical traces can be identified, to know that without something to compare a sample to, identifying any chemical as being from a specific batch, or telling precisely where it came from, is impossible. It does not matter what it is, soil sample, an acid, a fuel or a particular mix of cocktail.

You cannot identify a sample precisely enough to point at its origins, unless you already have an exemplar for comparison.


To be fair its entirely possibly that the UK does have a sample to compare to.

Its also widely believed that Novichok is only produced in Russia.

EDIT:

Sorry just read your other post.

I think its entirely possible that yes the UK or allies of the UK has a sample for comparison that they must have obtained either with the clear up of the chemical weapons plant producing the stuff back in 1999 or throughs one kind of espionage to get the information required to do a comparison.
edit on 15-3-2018 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


OK, sounds reasonable but I suspect that things may go on at Porton that we simply have no clue about. They are very secretive.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: Sillyolme

As a message to whom exactly, and to what end?
With all the 'Russiaphobia' that has been spewed for god knows how many months, don't you think they would rather keep their nose clean?
On top of which...they use a neuro toxin from pre '90's??? Considering the Litveyenko polonium (excuse spelling) was traced back to them, don't you think they would have used something rather more advanced and made sure it worked than something most countries in the world now have access to?
Just saying...



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 09:01 AM
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originally posted by: zGrimReapah
Alleged Russian Hit in Guernsey


This was done in January over here and there's still an active inquiry into what happened and whether Russia was involved, this is the style of hit I'd expect, chemical weapons usage seems a bit over the top, but what do I know..

However, I hope whoever the culprit of the attack was gets caught and whoever else was involved is held accountable.


Remember the The Cuckoo's Egg by Clifford Stoll and the outcome for Karl Koch the KGB hacker. It was put down as a suicide due to the fact he was found burnt to death by gasoline in a perfect circle of burnt grass.

en.wikipedia.org...(hacker)



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: angelchemuel


The message is to anyone even thinking about defecting/betraying Putin.

They are doing it in plain sight and are probably laughing at all the people who are saying it can't be Russia because it is too obvious. It seems to be working very well for them.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: angelchemuel




With all the 'Russiaphobia' that has been spewed for god knows how many months, don't you think they would rather keep their nose clean?


Its only became a thing to be "pro Russia" really in the last couple of 18 months or so for what I can see. It seems to have just came about because the current nationalist ideology of Russia is in line with the Trump doctrine.



On top of which...they use a neuro toxin from pre '90's??? Considering the Litveyenko polonium (excuse spelling) was traced back to them, don't you think they would have used something rather more advanced and made sure it worked than something most countries in the world now have access to?


It might be old but its still highly advanced when you take some time to read up about what this stuff is. I personally think they deliberately wanted it to be known that it was them but also know that they can deny it even though everyone knows they done it to boost Putins line that he is feeding the Russian people that the west is closing in on them and they need him, a strong leader, to keep Russia safe.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 09:19 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

OSOTC...

Consider what you just said there. If Britain already had some of this stuff, then that means the Russians have already lost control of the chemical agent concerned. If that is true, then how many other countries have access to a sample? How much of it got out? Have other nations already reverse engineered a batch? For purely experimental purposes, of course?

Do you see where the opening to this rabbit hole leads? The suspect pool, if it is true that Russia have no exclusive control of the chemical agent concerned, is wider than it seems.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: oldcarpy

Indeed they are, and always have been. But trace analysis works the same way no matter what your security clearance is, because chemistry does not have any respect whatsoever for status.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Yeah I am totally with you on that.

But I keep saying this....

I am not saying it defiantly was Russia, I am saying that its most likely been Russia.

Russia have the means and motive and have previous for this, I do not believe the UK Government would be poking the Russian bear without having good grounds for doing so. I do not doubt that its possible for another state actor or private individual to have been behind this attack but so far out with a few paranoid conspiracies about false flags I have not seen anything to back that up.

The expert opinion currently seems to be agreed that this stuff is only manufactured in Russia.

Also, its entirely possible that the UK is able to do a comparison with data rather than having actual samples of the weapon furthermore nerve agents like this are held securely by governments, its not like you could just lift this stuff of the shelf.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit


Yes, but I suspect that Porton deals in more than just chemistry.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 09:30 AM
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What a brave Russian scientist told me about Novichok


The nerve agent was top secret back then, Its existence came to light thanks to the scruples of a brave scientist named Vil Mirzayanov, who had worked at the State Union Scientific Research Institute

Sometime after that, Mirzayanov moved to New Jersey and took a position at Rutgers University.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: oldcarpy

I get your thinking there, kind of a double bluff. But they didn’t fool you or others so not really that smart a move is it if that were the case?

Also what message does it send in this case other than one of incompetence?

Why not use Polonium which killed Litvinenko in 6 hours? Rather than some old 90’s soviet era nerve agent that just about anyone with the right connections could get their hands on?

Too many things just don’t add up with this and now we have Portland Down receiving 48 million in relation to this case. Does following the money apply here?

Who do you suppose offed Dr David Kelly the weapons inspector before the Iraq war?
(The BS suicide case)You know we went to war on the basis of WMD’s being held by Iraq, none of which were found.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: oldcarpy

Well yes, they also deal in bio weapons research.

But this, again, does not change the fact that chemical analysis works the same no matter who you work for.







 
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