big crackdowns on opiates happening

so i started a thread the other day about how the pharmacy wanted a prior authorization for my medicine. they said they can give a 7 day supply but then the rest of the prescription would have to be surrendered.
a few people thought it was a miscommunication between the pharmacy and my wife and it was not.

i just got home from the doc 5 minutes ago and i asked her just what the #.

said it is all coming from the governor and she has had a lot of patients in the last week call her with the same problem.

in ohio at least from now on ANY opiate, no matter how many, how strong or what insurance will now require a prior authorization EVERY time. no matter if you have been on the meds and for how long.

everyone has to go for a toxicology screen. she has to do 3 pages of notes on EVERY patient on opiates dictating their history. why they are on them. what they tried before. why they didnt work. so on and so forth.

she said she has had to send amputee patients home with no more than 3 days worth of medicine.

i asked her what reason they could possibly be doing this and why they would take so much of peoples medicine.

she said on the surface it is to fight this opiate crisis but her and some of her colleagues feel it is to push people towards the medical marijuana so the state can rake in the tax dollars.
i know most people on here think the opposite cause big pharm but she has been a doc a long time and apparently she is not the only one that thinks is cause the medical marijuana thing.

now our guidelines are not in place yet but she said it is going to be something to the effect of X amount of money for an application fee. X amount of money for the license fee that will have to be paid each year or your license will be invalidated. then it will be X amount of money to go see approved doctors to get the recommendation for the medical marijuana.

kind of makes sense cause the state will be getting it from both ends. docs and patients.

lets just use me. i have to pay an application fee. i have to pay my yearly fee. the approved doctor i see will have had to pay X amount to the state to become an approved doctor and they will most likely have to pay each year as well.
extrapolate that across how many patients and how many doctors. that is a lot of #ing money coming in to the state.

then we have the taxes they will attach to the cost of the marijuana at the dispensary. something like 30% is what california pays i think so lets just use that.

that is an unreal amount of money that the state would not otherwise be making from big pharm.
makes sense.

i am all for medical marijuana. i voted for it and as soon as the guidelines are in place i will be getting my card. that was the plan all along. i think it is a good thing. as a person that has been on opiates for 20 years and taken thousands of pills i think it is a good move.

having said that there are people that need opiates. yes they are over prescribed in places and yadda yadda but there are people that need them and for the state to come in and #in take people scripts from them is just not cool.

kind of good timing too. it has been legal medically for about a year but they have until september of this year to have all the # in place. docs. fees. dispensaries. etc.
so now we are almost in april and they are starting this every time prior auth # and sending people hoe with basically no meds.

so people will jump through hoops for roughly 5 months to get their meds and then when the guidelines are in place everyone is going to run to get their cards and start buying from the dispensaries.
sounds about right.

now i think a great many people were going to do this anyway. people like me. but there are people out there that otherwise would not have because why? weed is not their thing and they have their whatever medicine to manage their pain.
well now the state is taking it away or at least making it much harder than it already is so that is going to cause people that otherwise would have passed on getting their cards to get their cards.

what do you think cause when i think about it is makes sense

First instinct is to say “Good!” , but I get it.

What a pain for all the docs and patients that will have to go to pharmacy 4x as often and have to do 4x as much paper work, though.

I’m very pro medical cannabis but let’s face it there are certain things that opioids are really the only solution for, at least initially.

The whole thing is a mess and it’s a bummer that people who really do need those opioids are now having a much harder time.

The idea that there is sort of a conspiracy to get people people on medical MJ is almost laughable but who knows there is a lot of revenue to be made..

In the end I just hope people get the meds they need, with least amount of BS , abuse and profiteering.

Good luck with your medical situations...

a reply to: TinySickTears

If the plan is to shift people over to MJ then isn't this a great thing?

We've heard a great deal in recent months that opiates are a major issue for the US. Cries of "something must be done" and heavy criticism of the government for not taking action to tackle the issue.

So now they're basically making it untenable for folks to use opiates willy-nilly and are essentially forcing people over to the (apparently entirely benign) marijuana (which many seem to regard as a super miracle wonder drug, better than the second coming of Jesus Christ).

Seems like a win-win-win for all involved; the people are happy because the govt is tackling the opiate issue, patients get to have an effective painkiller without the dependency issues, MJ advocates get to bloviate about how super miraculous it is and states get to make lots of money which they can use to improve the quality of life for their citizens.

I do think that perhaps they ought to have got the MJ issues ironed out first mind you. If it's not currently available then they probably shouldn't be messing with availability of the current medications.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Opiates are the religion of the masses.

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: TinySickTears

Opiates are the religion of the masses.

Religion is free and that is a ridiculous statement...

Opiates are there to put the masses to sleep

originally posted by: Indrasweb
a reply to: TinySickTears

If the plan is to shift people over to MJ then isn't this a great thing?
people coming off opiates and using MJ instead is a great thing. yes


So now they're basically making it untenable for folks to use opiates willy-nilly and are essentially forcing people over to the (apparently entirely benign) marijuana (which many seem to regard as a super miracle wonder drug, better than the second coming of Jesus Christ).

Seems like a win-win-win for all involved; the people are happy because the govt is tackling the opiate issue, patients get to have an effective painkiller without the dependency issues, MJ advocates get to bloviate about how super miraculous it is and states get to make lots of money which they can use to improve the quality of life for their citizens.

I do think that perhaps they ought to have got the MJ issues ironed out first mind you. If it's not currently available then they probably shouldn't be messing with availability of the current medications.

the last paragraph is key. as a long time pain patient and a long time advocate for MJ this is not the way.
let me spill out a situation. i will use myself.

been on opiates for my hand since march of 2015. i take WAY less now that i did previously. mind you before the hand i was on a program because of my back. had a discectomy in 2001.
lets just start with 2015.
super high doses of opiates. i got my hand caught in a saw. ripped a finger off. over time i have gotten down to 20 milligrams a day. not really a big dose and i could cold turkey fairly easy. i would feel a bit off for maybe 2 days. just 80% of my self.
i can get my meds filled 1 day early. that means friday when i get them filled i have 2 left. i am at the pharmacy after work so like a half hour before the doc closes. all of a sudden i need a prior auth.
not happening till monday at the earliest. good thin i had the 7 day supply right? i should be fine providing the doc gets my # handled. sure hope she is not on vacation. if for some reason the pharmacy does not do a 7 day or i dont get my auth done i have no meds. wont be too sick. will be in a bit more pain.
good thing there another option and i am open minded to it.


now what about when i first got my hand #ed up.
extreme pain. pain like i cant explain. way worse than my back ever was.
i was taking 60mg oxycontin twice a day and 30mg roxicodone 4 times a day.

that is a high dose.
now what happens to me if all of a sudden any number of things change because this new rule and i find myself with no meds? not only am i going to be in an extreme amount of pain, i am going to be violently #in heroin, trainspotting style sick.

sucks to be me i guess?
thats not cool
what it is is cruel

take away the pain. take away the sickness. some people do die that way. not super common but not uncommon either.


the end result, thousands(that can be without an opiate) off pills and on green...fantastic
the cost is great doing it this way though


gun control has been a big topic lately. pro gun type, responsible owners would not like their guns taken away all of a sudden till # gets ironed out because some assholes like to go on rampages and shoot up schools. in the grand scheme of things it is a low percentage of people that do that. law abiding adults should not have to 'suffer' for the end goal right?
i am not a huge fan of all these guns out there but i feel this way.

i know it is not the same thing but apply the same logic.

should legit pain patients be made to suffer for the percentage of people that dont really need it or abuse it?
of course not

giving someone a week to get a prior auth is cool but not while they take 2/3 away. why not the week while they try to get the prior auth handled? if it gets handled great. if not maybe they can get an appointment?

there are just too many variables.
my doc works at this private practice and at a hospital. she is in this office 4 days a week from 2 till 5.

not a lot of time to handle bull# like this. not a lot of time for her too see patients like right now cause they are in pain and maybe getting sick.

in the end though yes it is a good thing but people should not be basically forced into it.

a reply to: abeverage

It's a reworded quote of Marx. The commies called religion the opiates of the masses in that it was a control mechanism used to alleviate the anger of the working class as they would be rewarded in the hereafter. Nowadays if you don't think the super cheap heroin and fentanyl that is available in every town and city in the US isn't a control mechanism then you and I have radically different world views.

I know some people on long term opiates, they do need something for the pain, their systems are screwed up. I do have knowledge of how the systems in the body work and how addiction and need for increase in the meds works. But the one guy needs back surgery, the opiates do not even work well. But doctors are skeptical of doing surgery on his back, he has had that problem for a long time and they said that they would have to fuse most of his back to stop the problem. That would not be a good thing. All three I know are on them for back problems, one had a surgery and the pain did not go down at all, in fact he thinks it got worse. Two of the three guys I know on them long term would love to find another way to get off the pills, constipation is their big problem with them. The third one is happy with getting his fix. I think he would argue with the doctor to keep them coming. One of the guys who would love to get off them has a wife who messed up her arm in an RTV accident, bones poking out in a couple of places. She used to be against the pain meds, not anymore, the nerves in her arm are all messed up and she is on them now too. They have had a lot of problems lately getting reassessed, extra doctor visits. But they so far have still been getting them. Neither of them want to smoke pot anymore, they gave that up decades ago.

When I would get hurt the doctor would give me twenty of them or so, I do not like them so saved them after I could bare the pain again, usually using only half of them. Then the next time I hurt myself I would pop one a couple times till the pain went down. Now it is really hard to get them, I have been out for years now. I have a screwed up back from many accidents working, but I would rather go see the chiropractor than get hooked on pills.

they're doing that "preauthorization" crap with diabetes meds, too. .my wife is diabetic and every damn week she has to make several phone calls( her doctor hides behind a receptionist) and jump through hoops. for f#€K][ victoza shots!

a reply to: TinySickTears

In my honest opinion, you should just consider the difficulty your having in obtaining your opioids as a positive omen... Just give em up altogether.

Opioids/opiates seriously are dirty & filthy vice... Theirs always a two faced dirty look in the eyes of people who are bound to that crap.

Wish it was legal all across the board, got family members that live in pain and somewhere that they'd rather give you dope than some leafy green.


But I understand the abuse was out of control, in Texas ppl would have 1 gallon bags of that crap.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: TinySickTears

In my honest opinion, you should just consider the difficulty your having in obtaining your opioids as a positive omen... Just give em up altogether.

Opioids/opiates seriously are dirty & filthy vice... Theirs always a two faced dirty look in the eyes of people who are bound to that crap.

i know i could without going through the dt's but i can not smoke or edible before an 8 or 10 hour shift at work and i am in pain during the day. that is where the 20 milligrams comes in.

Outside of the legal pharmacy supply, I wonder what percentage of street opiates come form outside US?
It seems easy these days to score them online. Is this how the country is flooded with pharmaceutical opiates or is the majority coming from legit scripts? Are people going to Mexico and smuggling pills back? Can/are people ordering them from Canada?

I cringe when I hear Trump talking about hanging dealers, even figuratively. When I hear this strategy, I always think, What about the supply? Now I agree with stiff penalties for opioid dealers, but lets include the other variables in our approach.

Oh yea, I guess I should mention Kratum as an alternative for pain. I have a few friends that praise it as an alternative. I do think one of them may be addicted to it now, but I think that is better than opiate addiction.

a reply to: rickymouse

dude you have to be on point with your fiber and water intake if youre heavy into the opiate game.
you will be #in sorry if you arent

a reply to: TinySickTears

That sucks. As good as MMJ is it will never reach the pain relief of opiates because, well they're opiates. The receptors they hit are different.

My only advice: Kratom. While it's still legal at least.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Yeah, that's a really reasonable and well written explanation. I think that, until there are appropriate alternatives and measures in place then they ought not to be making sudden and drastic changes in the way people access their medications. In the long term then perhaps it might be a good thing to shift people over to something else and, let's be honest, there will be plenty of people who are going to need a push to get that done, plenty of folks who are not going to do it willingly and making it difficult for people to access is one way of giving them a push in the right direction. However, without a reasonable alternative then, as you say, it seems unneccesarily cruel...

originally posted by: waftist
Outside of the legal pharmacy supply, I wonder what percentage of street opiates come form outside US?
It seems easy these days to score them online. Is this how the country is flooded with pharmaceutical opiates or is the majority coming from legit scripts? Are people going to Mexico and smuggling pills back? Can/are people ordering them from Canada?

I cringe when I hear Trump talking about hanging dealers, even figuratively. When I hear this strategy, I always think, What about the supply? Now I agree with stiff penalties for opioid dealers, but lets include the other variables in our approach.

Oh yea, I guess I should mention Kratum as an alternative for pain. I have a few friends that praise it as an alternative. I do think one of them may be addicted to it now, but I think that is better than opiate addiction.

great post and i can answer some of this. i dont have any stats or links but i know for a fact this is true.

a great deal of it comes from legal scripts. a great deal of it comes from the internet and i dont mean buying them on the dark web or buying them from some electronic pharmacy.
we are connected with people from all over. people dont really think about it but facebook. message boards. reddit. you meet like minded people. people that live here or there with different laws. you make nice.

know what im saying. people would be #ing amazed if they really knew how much # is just in the mail from person to person.

there is a huge amount of people buying scripts from patients after they are filled and getting them for a song and then piecing them out for double. that is getting better though. not as much of that going on.

dont limit yourself to just mexico. a guy i used to know was in it. his dad used to go to ecuador all the time. i dont know why but as a side he would just #ing bring back boxes of xanex. it was unreal.
i dont know how deep into the smuggle he got. if he was putting those boxes in his anal or what but dude had a load of them quite often.
how often do you think that happens?

kratom is amazing. been with that for a long time too.
best thing in the world for the dt's.
get you some kratom and you will breeze through it.

the internet has made it so easy to get whatever you want. not just drugs. if you want a thing that is illegal near you or not for sale you can get it on the internet no problem.

a reply to: Indrasweb

it is cruel.
whats wrong with

oh mr tinysicktears. you take 10 milligrams twice a day? well # changed so now it is 7.5
a month or so in. oh hey tears. busting you down to 5 twice a day.

know what i mean

i am not even saying i am for this route i just mean it is a route that will still offer the patient relief. it will still give them time to figure something out and it will get closer to when the medical regs are set if that is what is happening.

i do think this should come from your doctor though. not all of a sudden at the pharmacy or some other notification.
next appointment. new rules. lets talk them over. hands are tied here is how it is.

it can NOT be every opiate for every patient across the board though.
its just not right.

can i get by without my 20 milligrams? if i had an alternative... yes. of course. kind of waiting for that

could i have gotten by without them 30 days post accident? absolutely not and it is absolutely cruel for the state or anyone else to make that decision for a person.