Trump proposes returning to the gold standard.

Talk about Trump going after the head of the Deep State..... hope he finishes what JFK started

a reply to: dragonridr

Platinum could be a backer of the dollar.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical
Jubilee the debt, eliminate fractional reserve banking, back the currency with gold and fix the price of gold so that each $1 of currency equals $1 worth of gold. Eliminate taxes and fund the government with direct issuance of currency. Live happily ever after.

And 90% of the country lives in abject poverty since gold supplies aren't high enough to convert the current monetary supply into a $1-for-$1 conversation.

Doesn't have to be $1 to $1. It can be any arbitrary amount. Your post is confusing. Seeing your 90% are in poverty are you saying leave it as it is?

What point are you trying to make?

90% of our country is NOT in poverty. That argument is dumb.

I misread your post on 90% poverty. I see you say there 'would' be 90% poverty. I rephrase why does it have to be $1 to $1. Any amount is an arbitrary. Still don't get how this results in poverty? Labor production in the form of products or service with a medium accepted in exchange for those efforts. It can be set at any level, by any means and as long as it IS accepted, it will work.

I guess I'm still missing your point.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Krazysh0t

??? The debt is still there. The amount owed is still there. The value of each has been changed. Nothing else...except perhaps the possibility of hyper-inflation.

The only thing that changes is the ability to manipulate, print or otherwise mess with it. At the least, it minimizes it.

You should do the math. It really kills your theory.

They've estimated that we've only mined about 187,200 tonnes of the stuff at about $40.2 million per tonne. So 187,200 * $40.2 million = $7.5 trillion. A number that you'll notice doesn't even cover half the current American debt. If we switched to the gold standard, you can bet that quite a few people would lose quite a bit of their wealth and have a high chance of going bankrupt. I imagine it would also crash our economy worse than even the 1930's as the country's monetary supply would shrink DRASTICALLY.

These, "switch to the gold standard" arguments never analyze the nuance of such a thing. Hell, just do some math and you'll see why this idea is impractical. If we want to improve our monetary supply, we should work on NEW monetary systems, not revert to proven failed systems.

And if the price was fixed at $400 million per tonne we would have $75 trillion worth of gold backed money.

a reply to: sligtlyskeptical


it would also make a Troy Ounce worth $12,000+ which is totally impractical.

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

But what will you do with all of the Dead bankers?

Feed them to snapping turtles?

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Krazysh0t

??? The debt is still there. The amount owed is still there. The value of each has been changed. Nothing else...except perhaps the possibility of hyper-inflation.

The only thing that changes is the ability to manipulate, print or otherwise mess with it. At the least, it minimizes it.

You should do the math. It really kills your theory.

They've estimated that we've only mined about 187,200 tonnes of the stuff at about $40.2 million per tonne. So 187,200 * $40.2 million = $7.5 trillion. A number that you'll notice doesn't even cover half the current American debt. If we switched to the gold standard, you can bet that quite a few people would lose quite a bit of their wealth and have a high chance of going bankrupt. I imagine it would also crash our economy worse than even the 1930's as the country's monetary supply would shrink DRASTICALLY.

These, "switch to the gold standard" arguments never analyze the nuance of such a thing. Hell, just do some math and you'll see why this idea is impractical. If we want to improve our monetary supply, we should work on NEW monetary systems, not revert to proven failed systems.

And if the price was fixed at $400 million per tonne we would have $75 trillion worth of gold backed money.

That's a big if. Gold prices are set worldwide. If we set our gold prices too high, who is going to buy gold from us? They'd just go to a foreign source since it is far cheaper. There is this thing called supply and demand and it happens to work on an international level too.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: nwtrucker

The whole concept of money is smoke and mirrors..


All that really matters is materials, knowhow and labor.


Plus of course the military might to protect/seize and materials, knowledge or labor you need.


We hVe the biggest military on the planet times 10..

Our debt or deficit is literally irrelevant.


If China asks to cash their debt in , W.E. will NOT be giving them Alaska. We will tell them to kick rocks.

If you loan money to Tony soprano, he only pays you if you feel like it.

Most American debt is owned by Americans. If you were to cancel it out or the government would just refuse to pay it, then it would be directly responsible for bankrupting its own people. This is something that would happen if we went to the gold standard like the OP wants too.

Um no it wouldn't. Debts would be paid with the new currency. After all since we are killing fractional reserve banking at the same time, there would be a huge void of currency left to run the economy.

How can you pay debts if the total number of currently mined gold in the world doesn't even cover all the American debts? The US doesn't even have access to that amount of gold. It has less.

The price of gold is simply too low, simply fix it higher to where it needs to be to run this system.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical
Jubilee the debt, eliminate fractional reserve banking, back the currency with gold and fix the price of gold so that each $1 of currency equals $1 worth of gold. Eliminate taxes and fund the government with direct issuance of currency. Live happily ever after.

And 90% of the country lives in abject poverty since gold supplies aren't high enough to convert the current monetary supply into a $1-for-$1 conversation.

Doesn't have to be $1 to $1. It can be any arbitrary amount. Your post is confusing. Seeing your 90% are in poverty are you saying leave it as it is?

What point are you trying to make?

90% of our country is NOT in poverty. That argument is dumb.

I misread your post on 90% poverty. I see you say there 'would' be 90% poverty. I rephrase why does it have to be $1 to $1. Any amount is an arbitrary. Still don't get how this results in poverty? Labor production in the form of products or service with a medium accepted in exchange for those efforts. It can be set at any level, by any means and as long as it IS accepted, it will work.

I guess I'm still missing your point.

The point is that going back to the gold standard is impractical and would likely crash our economy. If you want to improve our monetary supply, come up with a brand new system. We've already identified the problems with the gold standard, which is why we moved away from it, and being 100 years removed from using the system doesn't magically mean those problems will be gone if we implement it again.

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical
The price of gold is simply too low, simply fix it higher to where it needs to be to run this system.

The price of gold is where the world supply and demand sets it, trying to rig it will only make buyers of gold buy from the people NOT trying to rig the price.

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: nwtrucker

The whole concept of money is smoke and mirrors..


All that really matters is materials, knowhow and labor.


Plus of course the military might to protect/seize and materials, knowledge or labor you need.


We hVe the biggest military on the planet times 10..

Our debt or deficit is literally irrelevant.


If China asks to cash their debt in , W.E. will NOT be giving them Alaska. We will tell them to kick rocks.

If you loan money to Tony soprano, he only pays you if you feel like it.

Most American debt is owned by Americans. If you were to cancel it out or the government would just refuse to pay it, then it would be directly responsible for bankrupting its own people. This is something that would happen if we went to the gold standard like the OP wants too.

Um no it wouldn't. Debts would be paid with the new currency. After all since we are killing fractional reserve banking at the same time, there would be a huge void of currency left to run the economy.

How can you pay debts if the total number of currently mined gold in the world doesn't even cover all the American debts? The US doesn't even have access to that amount of gold. It has less.

The price of gold is simply too low, simply fix it higher to where it needs to be to run this system.

You should go take a macro economics class...

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Krazysh0t

??? The debt is still there. The amount owed is still there. The value of each has been changed. Nothing else...except perhaps the possibility of hyper-inflation.

The only thing that changes is the ability to manipulate, print or otherwise mess with it. At the least, it minimizes it.

You should do the math. It really kills your theory.

They've estimated that we've only mined about 187,200 tonnes of the stuff at about $40.2 million per tonne. So 187,200 * $40.2 million = $7.5 trillion. A number that you'll notice doesn't even cover half the current American debt. If we switched to the gold standard, you can bet that quite a few people would lose quite a bit of their wealth and have a high chance of going bankrupt. I imagine it would also crash our economy worse than even the 1930's as the country's monetary supply would shrink DRASTICALLY.

These, "switch to the gold standard" arguments never analyze the nuance of such a thing. Hell, just do some math and you'll see why this idea is impractical. If we want to improve our monetary supply, we should work on NEW monetary systems, not revert to proven failed systems.

OK. I've stepped into a quagmire here. Now I'm totally, utterly confused. I'm missing some basic in all this and I need help from anyone that can explain it on a '101 level'.

Since when is the gold standard a 'failed system'?? How? Why?

How did Iceland cancel all the citizens' debt to banks and that nation is still functioning?

HELP!!

Gold standard has consistently failed whenever economies get into serious difficulties.

Icekland did not cancel all its citizens debt. Its a complete urban myth.

Ok. So we're not on a gold standard now and this system is near failure, as well. I don't see the distinction.

Iceland? Ok. Let that one go.

The 2008 crash was a bigger financial shock than the start of the Great Depression.

The ability of governments to increase the monetary base and offer unrestricted guarantees prevented it becoming anything like as bad (although governments should have done more and differently but that's a different argument).

Ok. I ask couldn't that have been done or something similar on a short term, emergency basis even on a gold Standard?

Even if it couldn't, and that's beyond my knowledge one way or the other, that one time justifies the current system whereby the U.S. gov't just issues more and more and increase the paper debt unceasingly to keep those markets and the economy, overall, afloat?

At least a bigger crash then would have balanced out sooner or later with the correction instead of passing the buck, so to speak, to the future where when it finally does crash there is no recovery?

a reply to: nwtrucker

Won't he require rather a lot of Gold Bullion?

Then again it must have all went somewhere.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

So based on that, you prefer the system stay as it is?

a reply to: nwtrucker

It's the entirety of the system that needs to burn, or at least reboot somewhat.

Our respective gooberments are full of malware aka politicians.

Gold standards won't help only a measure of equality and the wealth being spread more evenly.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: nwtrucker

Won't he require rather a lot of Gold Bullion?

Then again it must have all went somewhere.

It did...

Chiner and Russia...we sold it to em.

I don't think they have much confidence in the Dollar anymore. Imagine that....


heartlandpreciousmetals.com...

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Krazysh0t

??? The debt is still there. The amount owed is still there. The value of each has been changed. Nothing else...except perhaps the possibility of hyper-inflation.

The only thing that changes is the ability to manipulate, print or otherwise mess with it. At the least, it minimizes it.

You should do the math. It really kills your theory.

They've estimated that we've only mined about 187,200 tonnes of the stuff at about $40.2 million per tonne. So 187,200 * $40.2 million = $7.5 trillion. A number that you'll notice doesn't even cover half the current American debt. If we switched to the gold standard, you can bet that quite a few people would lose quite a bit of their wealth and have a high chance of going bankrupt. I imagine it would also crash our economy worse than even the 1930's as the country's monetary supply would shrink DRASTICALLY.

These, "switch to the gold standard" arguments never analyze the nuance of such a thing. Hell, just do some math and you'll see why this idea is impractical. If we want to improve our monetary supply, we should work on NEW monetary systems, not revert to proven failed systems.

And if the price was fixed at $400 million per tonne we would have $75 trillion worth of gold backed money.

That's a big if. Gold prices are set worldwide. If we set our gold prices too high, who is going to buy gold from us? They'd just go to a foreign source since it is far cheaper. There is this thing called supply and demand and it happens to work on an international level too.

Exactly to cover us debt would require gold prices to be 35000 per ounce. And no one is going to ever pay that for gold.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: nwtrucker

It's the entirety of the system that needs to burn, or at least reboot somewhat.

It's interesting when people say this and clearly haven't thought about the implications of what they are suggesting. If the whole system "burned" as you said it, you might as well start calling the US a third world country at that point because there is no crawling back to the top of the world stage after imploding our economy.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: nwtrucker

Won't he require rather a lot of Gold Bullion?

Then again it must have all went somewhere.

That I don't know. The Forbes article states there's plenty of gold in the U.S..

As the price for gold has gone up, so has mining operations. That means production of gold as well. Can't turn on the damn TV without some reality show covering gold production in the Yukon, Alaska even at the bottom of the ocean. Family members made a bunch of money on reopening of a closed gold mine.

It's an interesting point to explore though. It is even possible there's been far more gold production with today's technologies than ever in the past.

Are there records of the production totals and where they are?

Good questions.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: nwtrucker

Won't he require rather a lot of Gold Bullion?

Then again it must have all went somewhere.

It did...

Chiner and Russia...we sold it to em.

I don't think they have much confidence in the Dollar anymore. Imagine that....


heartlandpreciousmetals.com...

Your sources are wrong the US has not sold any gold to China etc. In fact the US has gild reserves from China about 600 tonnes that it refuses to return that's stored on US vaults. It was required in the 90s to cover trade deficits.