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Trump proposes returning to the gold standard.

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posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical
I think any nation who did not go along would see their currency become worthless in short order, so we would have unilateral support. We would also have to give some poorer countries some gold to get the system started.


Doubtful since the country that did this unilaterally would see immediate stagnation as capital moved off shore to currencies that were not tied to a single commodity without enough resource to back the current amount of currency in circulation.




posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Krazysh0t

??? The debt is still there. The amount owed is still there. The value of each has been changed. Nothing else...except perhaps the possibility of hyper-inflation.

The only thing that changes is the ability to manipulate, print or otherwise mess with it. At the least, it minimizes it.


You should do the math. It really kills your theory.

They've estimated that we've only mined about 187,200 tonnes of the stuff at about $40.2 million per tonne. So 187,200 * $40.2 million = $7.5 trillion. A number that you'll notice doesn't even cover half the current American debt. If we switched to the gold standard, you can bet that quite a few people would lose quite a bit of their wealth and have a high chance of going bankrupt. I imagine it would also crash our economy worse than even the 1930's as the country's monetary supply would shrink DRASTICALLY.

These, "switch to the gold standard" arguments never analyze the nuance of such a thing. Hell, just do some math and you'll see why this idea is impractical. If we want to improve our monetary supply, we should work on NEW monetary systems, not revert to proven failed systems.
edit on 14-3-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:16 PM
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If Trump implemented a return to the gold standard the US would have another presidential assassination there's no way the puppet masters would allow it....



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

Um no it wouldn't. Debts would be paid with the new currency. After all since we are killing fractional reserve banking at the same time, there would be a huge void of currency left to run the economy.


Fractional banking existed when we had a gold standard, the two are not mutually exclusive and again would cripple the economy of the country that enacted it unilaterally. Instead of borrowing from us other nations would borrow from another nation thereby giving them more power/control.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:18 PM
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originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: nwtrucker

The whole concept of money is smoke and mirrors..


All that really matters is materials, knowhow and labor.


Plus of course the military might to protect/seize and materials, knowledge or labor you need.


We hVe the biggest military on the planet times 10..

Our debt or deficit is literally irrelevant.


If China asks to cash their debt in , W.E. will NOT be giving them Alaska. We will tell them to kick rocks.

If you loan money to Tony soprano, he only pays you if you feel like it.



Most American debt is owned by Americans. If you were to cancel it out or the government would just refuse to pay it, then it would be directly responsible for bankrupting its own people. This is something that would happen if we went to the gold standard like the OP wants too.


Um no it wouldn't. Debts would be paid with the new currency. After all since we are killing fractional reserve banking at the same time, there would be a huge void of currency left to run the economy.

How can you pay debts if the total number of currently mined gold in the world doesn't even cover all the American debts? The US doesn't even have access to that amount of gold. It has less.
edit on 14-3-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:19 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Plus half the reason we are a super power is that opec only accepts american dollars..


OPEC will accept nearly any currency you want to pay them in, the oil is PRICED in dollars.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

Um no it wouldn't. Debts would be paid with the new currency. After all since we are killing fractional reserve banking at the same time, there would be a huge void of currency left to run the economy.


Fractional banking existed when we had a gold standard, the two are not mutually exclusive and again would cripple the economy of the country that enacted it unilaterally. Instead of borrowing from us other nations would borrow from another nation thereby giving them more power/control.

It's like these people think that the US exists in a vacuum or something... World economics have gotten too complex to return to the gold standard. We would never convince the rest of the world to do it and we would cripple our economy if we were the only ones to implement it.
edit on 14-3-2018 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: 5StarOracle
If Trump implemented a return to the gold standard the US would have another presidential assassination there's no way the puppet masters would allow it....


Why? What other President was assassinated over the Gold Standard?



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

It's like these people think that the US exists in a vacuum or something... World economics have gotten too complex to return to the gold standard. We would never convince the rest of the world to do it and we would cripple our economy if we were the only ones to implement it.


You need to be assassinated.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:22 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Krazysh0t

??? The debt is still there. The amount owed is still there. The value of each has been changed. Nothing else...except perhaps the possibility of hyper-inflation.

The only thing that changes is the ability to manipulate, print or otherwise mess with it. At the least, it minimizes it.


You should do the math. It really kills your theory.

They've estimated that we've only mined about 187,200 tonnes of the stuff at about $40.2 million per tonne. So 187,200 * $40.2 million = $7.5 trillion. A number that you'll notice doesn't even cover half the current American debt. If we switched to the gold standard, you can bet that quite a few people would lose quite a bit of their wealth and have a high chance of going bankrupt. I imagine it would also crash our economy worse than even the 1930's as the country's monetary supply would shrink DRASTICALLY.

These, "switch to the gold standard" arguments never analyze the nuance of such a thing. Hell, just do some math and you'll see why this idea is impractical. If we want to improve our monetary supply, we should work on NEW monetary systems, not revert to proven failed systems.


OK. I've stepped into a quagmire here. Now I'm totally, utterly confused. I'm missing some basic in all this and I need help from anyone that can explain it on a '101 level'.

Since when is the gold standard a 'failed system'?? How? Why?

How did Iceland cancel all the citizens' debt to banks and that nation is still functioning?

HELP!!



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:30 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

1) The gold standard puts power in control of the people who own gold mines. (if you don't see the problem with this, then look at the problems we have with securing oil in the Middle East to see how problems with this can arise).
2) A gold standard can only cover a monetary supply as long as the monetary supply is less than the amount of gold in the reserves. If Iceland can pull it off it is likely because their debt is only $10.837 million. The US' national debt is damn near $20 trillion.
3) There isn't much to stop banks from over leveraging their gold.
4) When banks over leverage their gold, it makes recessions much worse as bank runs put tons of banks out of business.

Gold standards are a decent idea for countries with a smaller economy, but our economy is just too large to implement such a thing.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:30 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

That's not really the issue - I agree that the idea is not practical, but it's not to do with the maths of gold reserves vs currency resulting in not enough gold. It's more to do with the effects on the price of gold and the fact it would rise so high that inflation would balloon and destroy wealth.
edit on 14/3/2018 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Wrong. Really wrong. Couldn't be wronger. It contradicts your own post.

The value can be and would be arbitrarily set. An arbitrary value. Not using gold as currency. Using it as a 'standard'.

Set it. Maintain it. Make it law.





Price controls?

How very statist of you.


Statist or merely stability? I seem to recall when gold was fixed at 35 dollars an ounce. Things seemed fine then, IIRC.


What apart from, the great depression and the collapse of international convertibility in the 70s?


Really? I don't get it? Honestly.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

I think we are making similar arguments then. Because, while I haven't actually pointed out that outcome, with the math I pointed out, I can see what you said happening.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Wrong. Really wrong. Couldn't be wronger. It contradicts your own post.

The value can be and would be arbitrarily set. An arbitrary value. Not using gold as currency. Using it as a 'standard'.

Set it. Maintain it. Make it law.





Price controls?

How very statist of you.


Statist or merely stability? I seem to recall when gold was fixed at 35 dollars an ounce. Things seemed fine then, IIRC.


What apart from, the great depression and the collapse of international convertibility in the 70s?


Really? I don't get it? Honestly.


Most economists would say that the US only dragged herself out of the Great Depression because of the move away from the gold standard, allowing the govt to inject more money into the economy and stimulate growth.

Economists, of course, are amongst the most useless people in the world when predicting outcomes, but they can do a good job when assessing the past.
edit on 14/3/2018 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: ShadowChatter

Haha, Leprechaun... Man, when I was a freshman in High School (1993), I invited one of the popular girls in class over to watch a movie and that's what we ended up renting and watching on my bedroom floor. I don't think I've ever been kissed more aggressively than she kissed me that night, even to this day.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Krazysh0t

??? The debt is still there. The amount owed is still there. The value of each has been changed. Nothing else...except perhaps the possibility of hyper-inflation.

The only thing that changes is the ability to manipulate, print or otherwise mess with it. At the least, it minimizes it.


You should do the math. It really kills your theory.

They've estimated that we've only mined about 187,200 tonnes of the stuff at about $40.2 million per tonne. So 187,200 * $40.2 million = $7.5 trillion. A number that you'll notice doesn't even cover half the current American debt. If we switched to the gold standard, you can bet that quite a few people would lose quite a bit of their wealth and have a high chance of going bankrupt. I imagine it would also crash our economy worse than even the 1930's as the country's monetary supply would shrink DRASTICALLY.

These, "switch to the gold standard" arguments never analyze the nuance of such a thing. Hell, just do some math and you'll see why this idea is impractical. If we want to improve our monetary supply, we should work on NEW monetary systems, not revert to proven failed systems.


OK. I've stepped into a quagmire here. Now I'm totally, utterly confused. I'm missing some basic in all this and I need help from anyone that can explain it on a '101 level'.

Since when is the gold standard a 'failed system'?? How? Why?

How did Iceland cancel all the citizens' debt to banks and that nation is still functioning?

HELP!!


Gold standard has consistently failed whenever economies get into serious difficulties.

Icekland did not cancel all its citizens debt. Its a complete urban myth.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:37 PM
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a reply to: neo96

You mean the money supply that has no real value?

There's more than enough gold to cover that...



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:39 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Krazysh0t

??? The debt is still there. The amount owed is still there. The value of each has been changed. Nothing else...except perhaps the possibility of hyper-inflation.

The only thing that changes is the ability to manipulate, print or otherwise mess with it. At the least, it minimizes it.


You should do the math. It really kills your theory.

They've estimated that we've only mined about 187,200 tonnes of the stuff at about $40.2 million per tonne. So 187,200 * $40.2 million = $7.5 trillion. A number that you'll notice doesn't even cover half the current American debt. If we switched to the gold standard, you can bet that quite a few people would lose quite a bit of their wealth and have a high chance of going bankrupt. I imagine it would also crash our economy worse than even the 1930's as the country's monetary supply would shrink DRASTICALLY.

These, "switch to the gold standard" arguments never analyze the nuance of such a thing. Hell, just do some math and you'll see why this idea is impractical. If we want to improve our monetary supply, we should work on NEW monetary systems, not revert to proven failed systems.


OK. I've stepped into a quagmire here. Now I'm totally, utterly confused. I'm missing some basic in all this and I need help from anyone that can explain it on a '101 level'.

Since when is the gold standard a 'failed system'?? How? Why?

How did Iceland cancel all the citizens' debt to banks and that nation is still functioning?

HELP!!


Gold standard has consistently failed whenever economies get into serious difficulties.

Icekland did not cancel all its citizens debt. Its a complete urban myth.


Ok. So we're not on a gold standard now and this system is near failure, as well. I don't see the distinction.

Iceland? Ok. Let that one go.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

Near failure? According to what metric? The stock market is still near its all time high. It may be down recently, but there aren't any signs that we are in danger of a recession starting in the near future.




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