Student walkouts scheduled all over US

It's not wrong because it's a "right protesting a right," it's just pointless because a high % of those kids really don't have an idea what they are "protesting." If they are walking to protest something, they should be 100% clear what they are marching for - I doubt they are.

But as for the "right protesting a right" angle, what are you suggesting - that the right itself is untouchable in its current state? Or that literally nothing can be done about it? Nothing at all - it's fine as is? It's not fine.. and many are protesting that NOTHING is done, ever. There is talk about how tragic it is.. and then, nothing comes of it.. and along comes another shooting. Lather, rinse, repeat.

You think Trump visiting the video game industry will somehow magically reduce shootings?

No matter what your "rights" are, having a problem and ignoring it won't make it go away. Shooting will continue. Whether it's armed teachers (bad idea imo), much better vetting for guns, age changes, gun show changes.. whatever.. keep intact the ability to bear arms - but change something. Because clearly the idea of "do nothing" doesn't actually help.

And while some of you clamor about about how many people die in car accidents so school shooting are "ok," it's honestly because many just don't want their weapons, or ability and ease to get them, infringed. They couldn't care less about school shootings, or shooting in general. It's just to many, the price others have to pay for the right to bear arms.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Boadicea

So we're ok protecting the life of a potential child who is not yet born with legislation but screw the ones who are living and breathing until a bullet takes their life.

What the hell does that even mean??? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I didn't say that, and you know it. Hence the lack of a quote to put your "So..." comment into any perspective.

Legislation comes in all shapes and sizes... some more effective and efficient than others. We as a society used legislation to make school zones "gun free" zones... and the KILLING DID NOT STOP!!! In fact, it has only escalated. So who the hell decided to screw the living and breathing until a bullet takes their life? The ones used legislation to make our kids and school faculty defenseless and helpless fish in a barrel.

I guess some "life" has more rights than other life.

Nope. I'm sure not the one making that case... nor that REALITY. But you have made yourself very clear. Thank you for that.

Ran across this on FB, and felt that is underscores several points I made in this thread:



Positive leadership is about creating useful action. An arrhythmatic heart works its ass off and achieves nothing.

a reply to: fleabit

I am an American that grew up in Europe so my views of protesting are quite different from how Americans do it. Over there, when people protested, man they really protested, farmers parked hundreds if not thousands of tractors in the streets and jammed traffic for days. It worked.

I hate to say it but the protests here are just annoying, media sensationalism and not much more. Here are just some of my views on what would cause actual change.

Gun protests do nothing, Now if these kids made a commitment not to buy guns in the future, or not to buy from anyone that supported the NRA, or not to vote for NRA supporting members, or any stores etc., now that would have some real power. Maybe some of them should run for office, stay in school and learn about government and see how complex these issues are.

The NFL kneeling, does nothing but lower ratings, but if all the black sports players walked out, or even just NFL which is 80% black just walked out and refused to play think about the consequences that would have. It would collapse the entire sport. Sports are all about $$$ and nothing else. It is the modern day gladiator, get beat up, give us a show, but we don't want to actually hear you talk. I think all the NFL players should watch the movie Bug's life, sounds silly but man so relatable.

The MeToo movement, I hate to say it but in some cases women are their own worst enemy. Here is great quote: " A man will only treat you the way you allow him to treat you." This is actually the case for everyone.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Thanks for that, I passed it on. Hopefully be around the local area by the end of today. Hopefully some adults will think about it also!

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I think you hit on the big topic that isn't being discussed, what is causing these kids to want to shoot up their classmates... What is the root cause?

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I think you hit on the big topic that isn't being discussed, what is causing these kids to want to shoot up their classmates... What is the root cause?

Lord knows I certainly want to. And have been doing so.

Like i keep saying, I cannot tolerate losing any more rights until we address the root cause.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: network dude
I'm just sad that these kids were hijacked. They had a chance to enact real change here. They could have fostered the discussion that MUST happen in order to try to fix this problem. With the only discussion to be had, being a myopic view limited to "gunz", the rest of the factors are always shelved.

Mental Health, Drugs, parenting, family structure, lack of moral compass.

But more gun laws will surely make the crazy killers think twice.

Just sad.

I'm not a fan of gun control, as I think it doesn't address the real problems, but I think it is a bit disingenuous to say they could have fostered a discussion when people have been trying for a long time to have these sorts of debates in order to hash the issue out.

What many people don't seem to understand is that it is hard to have that discussion, even more so for the pro-2nd advocates, when you have the most vocal of one side of the discussion that does nothing but scream "shall not infringe".

It is those sorts that make it difficult for the rest of us to get together and talk reasonable about these issues. Lord knows it does nothing to educate the younger generations about our rights and why they exist. They just see angry idiots shouting "shall not infringe".

I tried to bring this up when the talk was new and this just happened. If all you do is bring up gunz, all you will hear is the NRA shouting you down.

Guns are only a small part of this issue and until the other, larger parts are addressed, everything just looks like an agenda, weather it is, or it isn't. I think you know this as well, but for some reason, feel the need to always oppose the other side.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Because when the Pro2A folks mention that maybe we could do stuff like actually lock the school doors

They already do that. They've been doing that since I was in high school.

or take meaningful steps to address the bullying that drives the majority of these cases, it gets batted down and dismissed.

They've been doing that as well.

Please tell me you are joking. If the doors were locked and the building was secure, the shooter would be left standing outside with his weapon, a duffel bag and a piss poor attitude. and the students would still be alive today. You get no points for opposition like this.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It's a nice sentiment but it still ignores the root cause. Bullies exist in every school in every country. Yet we're still the only country with regular school shootings.

Not to mention that those message has some, albeit unintentional, subtext. It pretty much sends the message that you should be nice to people because you're afraid of getting shot. Kid shoots up the place anyway? Guess you should've been nicer.

Just like the Left wants to shift the blame to only guns. Just like the president wants to shift the blame to only video games. This is just shifting the blame to a single issue while ignoring the fact that this goes much deeper than a single issue.

This country has stage IV cancer and we keep trying to treat it with bandaids.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

We may be the only country with shooting, but many other countries have killing, with knives etc.

en.wikipedia.org...(2010%E2%80%9312)
On 4 August 2010, 26-year-old Fang Jiantang (方建堂) slashed more than 20 children and staff with a 60 cm knife, killing 3 children and 1 teacher at a kindergarten in Zibo,

maybe you are not old enough to remember, but before it used to be bombs. The weapon doesn't matter.

I'm not saying we don't need to talk about guns, I think we do, but it sure isn't the cure all to these things happening.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Decades without school shootings. But guns existed.

So draw whatever line you want to draw...but it doesn't go to the tools used. It goes to the people using them.

Im not shifting blame to a single issue. I've listed several issues, actually. You just picked up on one of them.

But...it is obvious students have changed. Bullying has always happened, but social media hasn't. Its a different world. What that means...we don't know. But instead of asking ourselves "whats changed" helplessly with our palms up...why not do something? Try something that is not only obvious, but hasn't been tried before. Because honestly...locking a freaking door is so easy and obvious im shocked it even needs mentioning.

But 17 dead kids seems to think it does.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I never said the weapon mattered. However isn't it kind of telling that in the US we had seven intentional school shootings in the first two months of 2018 and yet you had to go back to 2010 for your example?

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: JAGStorm

I never said the weapon mattered. However isn't it kind of telling that in the US we had seven intentional school shootings in the first two months of 2018 and yet you had to go back to 2010 for your example?

It IS telling.

Telling what...that is the question.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I used that as a quick example, there are many many more and more recent

www.cbsnews.com...
Beijing mall stabbing: Knife attack leaves 1 dead, 12 injured

33 Dead, 130 Injured in China Knife-Wielding Spree
www.nbcnews.com...

our friends up North:
globalnews.ca...

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Where in my post did I blame guns? In fact I called out the Left for only focusing on guns.

Like I said our country is sick but everyone is treating symptoms, real or imagined. No one is actually addressing the fact that we're pretty much the only country that places as much emphasis on the needs and wants of the individual over the whole.

It's more important to us that an insurance company posts record profits than it is to provide healthcare to every citizen.

It's more important to be able to go out to eat any extra time each month than it is to give every child the opportunity at higher education.

People like to blame the dissolution of the family unit as a cause. But a large part of that stems from the "Greed is good," philosophy of the 80s. Those at the top were keeping more of the profits while middle class income stagnated. Both parents note needed to work. Especially if they were going to buy a bigger TV than their neighbor.

Hell, just look at the American Dream. It's not to have a loving family or great friends. It's to make as much money as possible.

We say that kids should be nicer to each other and yet how many of us adults put that in to practice? How many of us would be willing to step all over our co-workers if it meant a big promotion?

We say that if kids looked out for each other and were nicer to one another then this wouldn't be happening. But how are they supposed to learn that behavior when society as a whole sets the completely opposite example?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Then how do all these shooters gain access to these schools?

Probably through the door. I cannot say whether or not this school had such a policy, but I do know it is common policy.

Action is not the same as effective action.

I completely agree and I bet that is the same thinking many of these kids have.

Without a solid understanding of the importance of individual rights and the fear that accompanies cases such as school shootings, I can see why the kids feel the way they do and the route they are taking.

No guns...no school shootings.

It is the most logical, but it is not that simple. We have a right to bear arms. So the discussion becomes more complex and we do not serve the pro-2nd argument any justice when we stand and scream "Shall not be infringed" without bringing more to the table.

So it is my opinion that talking about locking doors, when a door can be easily passed, and addressing bullying, when that aspect is already an hot topic being addressed, is far too simple to make any progress.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Im not sayin gyou did.

But to your larger point...stepping on coworkers for a promotion isn't the issue. That is called "competitiveness" and I don't look at it quite so badly. But stepping on coworkers so they can feel more important, or to make other coworkers laugh...that is a real problem if/when it happens.

a reply to: network dude

I tried to bring this up when the talk was new and this just happened. If all you do is bring up gunz, all you will hear is the NRA shouting you down.

I agree. Both sides are wrong.

So what do we do about it?

All I can do is tell people about our rights, while also expressing my interest in where they are coming from as well. But too many people do not do that. They are entrenched on their "side" and there is no discussion.

Guns are only a small part of this issue and until the other, larger parts are addressed, everything just looks like an agenda, weather it is, or it isn't. I think you know this as well, but for some reason, feel the need to always oppose the other side.

Why is pointing out the obvious considered opposition? The pro-2nd crowd sucks. Plain and simple. They have a hard time articulating their rights, let alone being able to engage in something complex as this.

And the other "side" sucks as well.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Other than our massive amount of guns, which like I said is pretty much a non-factor, the only thing that really sets us apart from our fellow First World nations is our hyper-capitalist/individualist mentality that isn't tempered by anything else. From Day One we're pretty much instilling in our children that your needs trump everyone the needs of everyone else.

Is it really a surprise that some damaged minds may take that philosophy to the extreme?