Why White Evangelicalism Is So Cruel

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: dawnstar

Because those who wrote it originally didn’t believe it either and religion HAS ALWAYS been a way to control the peasants..

It is the ultimate and most brilliant big brother in history..

No cameras required..

No phones tapped..


Just convince everyone their is an invisible man in the sky who sees everything and he will torture you for all eternity if you don’t do exactly as the preacher tells you..


It really is brilliant and that is not me overstating it..

You don't think there's just a little bit of oversimplification in all that? The old "invisible man in the sky" bit? Really?

a reply to: Gandalf77

only in that history kind of shows that the power of the religions have steadily declined as the people claimed their liberty and freedoms. the translation and printing of the bible, so we could read the words ourselves opened the way for us to break the shackles of the pope and catholic church. no longer did we have to rely on the priests to tell us what was in the bible, no longer did those priest use that role to rob us blind selling us salvation.
same with the divine rights of the kings and sometimes queens. it opened the way to a more democratic rule, where the people didn't have to just accept the words of the king, we could remove our rulers without violence.
now, what we believe in, how we worship or chose not to worship is up to us, it's not forced onto us by religious leaders, gov't, or much of anything else. if we don't like any of the denominations, we can go and find those of like mind and worship the way we wish.
this might cause some negative side effects, but there is less likelihood that our leaders will use god's words, or what they claim to be god's words, to do us harm.

a reply to: dawnstar

Baptists that are from th South is the meaning fo southern Baptist. Wtf is with this identity politic bs

I've been to lots of southern Baptist churches and it's mostly loud singing and great southern cookin after. As a Yankee atheist/agnostic it's by far the most fun church to go to and everyone is always super nice.

Not the hateful white slave endorsing slave drivers kkk white crackers you're trying to stereotype

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Gandalf77

only in that history kind of shows that the power of the religions have steadily declined as the people claimed their liberty and freedoms. the translation and printing of the bible, so we could read the words ourselves opened the way for us to break the shackles of the pope and catholic church. no longer did we have to rely on the priests to tell us what was in the bible, no longer did those priest use that role to rob us blind selling us salvation.
same with the divine rights of the kings and sometimes queens. it opened the way to a more democratic rule, where the people didn't have to just accept the words of the king, we could remove our rulers without violence.
now, what we believe in, how we worship or chose not to worship is up to us, it's not forced onto us by religious leaders, gov't, or much of anything else. if we don't like any of the denominations, we can go and find those of like mind and worship the way we wish.
this might cause some negative side effects, but there is less likelihood that our leaders will use god's words, or what they claim to be god's words, to do us harm.

Don't get me wrong here: Thinking for yourself is a good thing. Separation of church and state is a good thing.
And yet, I'm sure there are folks who do indeed conceive of God as an old, bearded man in the sky.
To suggest that image is being used by all of organized Christianity to keep people in line is, however, an oversimplification. I've heard Catholic priests remind us of the necessity to openly question the church. Catholics don't have a problem with evolution, the big bang, etc. (Granted, there are plenty of other Christians who do indeed denigrate those things in favor of a very literal interpretation of scripture.) Everything changes--including religion. Change is a fundamental aspect of the universe.

a reply to: ketsuko

There is, however, a vested interest in keeping it alive for all kinds of purposes.

Its been dead for at least the last 20 years or so; not even on life support. The only remnant I'm aware of is maybe in the hinterlands of Alabama and wherever in the Carolina's the Silk Stocking set of New Orleans fled to in the 1960's. And that's assuming any of their children carried on. The final nail in the coffin was the closing of the Sophie Newcomb college after Katrina.

a reply to: JDmOKI

lol... never been to a southern pentecostal church I take it??
I am not saying that those baptist churches are still endorsing slavery, yes, things change, and many I am sure even in the southern baptist churches embrace the change and are led by pastors who embrace the change.
but there are some within the christian churches, be they southern baptists in the deeps south, or something else, that are thinking that the church have gone too far in many ways, who think that it's their right and duty to be the rulers of this country, and the white seperatist, kkk, and the like are taking on the god banner and joining their ranks it seems.
and, they did play a major role in getting trump elected and are often welcomed in the white house to advise the president.

so, although the article is wrong about pointing a finger at one denominaton, it does seem to have some truth in it??

a reply to: Gandalf77

No not at all..

How else do you get people to do what you want them to without either putting a sword to their throats or paying them off???


There are not enough soldiers or treasure to control everyone through those means, so they created a carrot and stick system that only exists in people’s heads..


How does the old saying go???

Bad people do bad things because they are bad people..

Good people do bad things because of religion.

a reply to: dawnstar

I don’t think so..

I honestly think most people never think even remotely that deeply about it and those who do fabricate justifications that make it all make sense in their heads.

Mostly it all goes back to the very real fear of a violent slave rebellion.

Places like MS had let the population get to a 50/50 split of slaves and whites, with only a fraction of the whites getting most of the benefits from all the slaves.

If they ever organized they could absolutely kill every white man woman and child in the state......and if the whites were being honest they knew that is exactly what they would do if the roles were reversed.


Right or wrong , good or bad, Justice or vengeance, that is exactly what happens in slave rebellions. They murder everyone.

That was, is and had been a very real fear for so long it is infused into the southern and maybe American psyche.

Every crap piece of conservative propaganda is really couched in that fear even to this day.


That is what the gun debate is really about..


That is what the welfare debate is really about..

That is what the war on drugs debate is about..

That is what themilitarized police forces are there for.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Gandalf77

No not at all..

How else do you get people to do what you want them to without either putting a sword to their throats or paying them off???


There are not enough soldiers or treasure to control everyone through those means, so they created a carrot and stick system that only exists in people’s heads..


How does the old saying go???

Bad people do bad things because they are bad people..

Good people do bad things because of religion.

I understand what you're getting at, but IMHO, you're painting with a really broad brush here.

Full disclosure: I'm a Roman Catholic, and I've never been told to believe in an invisible, bearded man in the sky or else.

You can't tell me building universities, hospitals, soup kitchens, etc., amounts to doing bad things because of religion.

Yes, history is replete with examples of bad things being done in the name of all kinds of religion.
Yes, organized religion is subject to the frailties and failures of the human condition.

None of that adds up to all organized religion equalling some mechanism of control for the mindless masses.

a reply to: dawnstar

...it would explain some of what we see in the world today so I thought I would share it with you and maybe discuss it if some are interested.

Oh my dear Lord. "Hey ATS, let's talk trash about White conservative male Christians!!!" No, thank you.

However, I would like to discuss why you think this is a good idea. Seriously. What value do you think this brings to ATS? To politics? To the nation? To the world? Because the only value I see is for the PTB as another battle front is opened by a ready, willing and able foot soldier in the divide-and-conquer campaign.

Do you honestly believe that this screed accurately describes the thoughts and reasoning of millions of people? Because people are that easily labeled and put into a box? And is it ever a good idea to let one's enemy define them? No confirmation bias or hidden agendas there, right?

Am I supposed to ignore the moral equivalents on the left to these cruel and hateful evangelicals? Antifa comes to mind... Isn't the bottom line here that lots of people find lots of reasons to do lots of cruel and hateful things?

Perhaps more relevant, to the extent that it might be accurate, do you see any value in finding fault and placing blame, but NOT finding and offering any reasonable compromise or middle ground to strive for? Does insulting a whole group of people in any way promote solutions?

Finally, as you so arrogantly suggest that the "Christian right" has sold off most of their soul (as if you have either the wisdom or authority to judge the hearts and minds of others), have you made any effort whatsoever to find any virtue in their hearts and lives? At the very least, can you not see that they had no good choices in the election? If they could not vote for Trump for "moral" reasons, then neither could they vote for Hillary for "moral" reasons. It goes both ways. They could have stayed home, as they've done before, and then they'd be criticized for "letting" the other guy win -- as they were before. Same if they chose to vote third party. And are you suggesting they're they only ones? Or that it's only wrong because they're the "Christian right"? How many Hillary voters held their nose and voted Hillary as the "lesser evil"? Did they also sell their souls? Or did they make the best decision they could when they had no good options?

So please discuss. Given all of the above -- and more -- what practical or productive or positive purpose do you think this OP serves?

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: dawnstar

Absolutely..

Almost no one knows that the reason you have baptists and southern baptists is that both sides claimed with slavery was an acronym to god (baptists) and slavery was ordained by god(southern baptists)...

Imho it is arguably the most disgusting thing about modern religion is their willingness to keep the “southern” religious traditions..

Umm No. Im a baptist and I believe the whole thing about keeping to one self or people is really wrong. Thats the Basis for the Us/them problem the OP is mentioning.

Alot Of preachers misunderstood the meaning behind What we are to do as CHristians. Keeping to one sown kind is Meant to be Used in reference to RELIGIOUS differences. Basically saying to prevent yourself from being of th eworld and so sinful you ned to be with like minded people.

Schools that teach the relgion need to STress this or we get problems liek Farrakhan or rev wright.

a reply to: dawnstar

Well I give full credit for bravery sister. Good luck. Great Article.

I didn't grow up Southern Baptist, but my paternal (step, not actually related to these folks), were part of a church that had decided Southern Baptist roots mixed. It was... Intense. The racism and misogyny was built into the dogma, the sermons and the culture. Scarred me for life.

a reply to: yuppa

Doesn’t it seem convienient that humanity has had Christianity wrong for 1990 years but in the last 20. Somehow they got it right???


I mean assuming it is all true, shouldn’t they have had it right at the beginning???


Not 2000 years later????

It seems both egotistical and nonsensical to assume every other Christian in history is wrong, but you have it right..

a reply to: Gandalf77

You have been told god sees everything, and he will reward or punish you after death based on a rule book penned and controlled by the very people asking you for donations and submission..

All with zero real life evidence to back up any of it..

white evangelicalism is so cruel because the people are white

a reply to: snarfbot

Doubtful lol..

Cruelty and subjugation was practiced by almost every single one of our ancestors with the power to do so.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: yuppa

Doesn’t it seem convienient that humanity has had Christianity wrong for 1990 years but in the last 20. Somehow they got it right???


I mean assuming it is all true, shouldn’t they have had it right at the beginning???


Not 2000 years later????

It seems both egotistical and nonsensical to assume every other Christian in history is wrong, but you have it right..

mirror..you need one.

Maybe it's all because the world is a harsh, cruel place where people up and down the social ladder -- citizens, families, associations, etc. -- have long used pain as an educational tool while passing the buck to some "law" or "god" in order to absolve themselves of the responsibility.

originally posted by: snarfbot
white evangelicalism is so cruel because the people are white

White is all right.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Raggedyman

A) the Bible is not only the New Testament..

B) I don’t feel like looking up the exact verse, but I’m sure you’ll know which one I mean..

Paul: “slaves serve your masters as if to disobey is a sin against jesus himself.”


“Slaves, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;”

You don't feel like doing anything,...?

If you are not a Christian, why would you want to follow what the bible teaches or are you saying every one should?

Common sense not your thing?