The College Dream About to Burst?

a reply to: lakenheath24

There's a difference between entitlement and fraud. I graduated from Ohio State with a degree in education. I knew I would have to get sublicense to teach, but couldn't afford to take it. A couple years passed and they,started waiving the fee for vets, so I signed up. Turns out my degree doesn't lead to licensure! Countless meeting with advisors and no one ever thought to mention that, or suggest an alternate degree/plan? They asked what I wanted to do with my degree, and either didn't know the degree they were selling me did nothing (incompetence), or lied.
I can't say having a degree in general didn't help me get a job, but they sure as hell didn't sell me a degree that had any other value. I might as well have gotten a degree in basket weaving.

a reply to: Oldtimer2
"Now who can argue with that? I think we're all indebted to Oldtimer2 for clearly stating what needed to be said. I'm particulary glad that these lovely members were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed an ignorance little seen in this day and age". Gabby Johnson

a reply to: bender151

Its been a long time since I tried to attend college....

....do they provide placement or employment stats to folks choosing their major? That would really help, along with listings of job titles that one could expect to use their education in.

a reply to: lakenheath24

I also have an associates from the art institute of Seattle. They said they had a 98% job placement rating. In reality, 90% drop out. On "portfolio day " where one is required to go to great expense for a parade of prospective employers (buy a briefcase for some reason, a suit, etc) during my 9 hours standing like a fool in front of my work with what few others managed to not quit, we had ZERO prospective employers come through. I joined the military two years later. At that time only one person had found a job, running sound in a local bar lol. 50k+ well invested.
Schools should be held responsible, and sometimes they are. Ask Trump or Clinton. Mostly, they're not though.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Gothmog
Its called entitlement. I paid for an education that stated MAY help me get a job . So , therefore I am entitled to a job making 100 thou a year the instant I get my degree...

That isnt entitlement. Its investment. Schools recruit empty headed kids with big promises, then fail to direct as relevant.

Its only hurting the schools to keep churning out liberal arts degrees that cannot be monetized. The schools make the empty promises....they need to take some responsibility in return for the tens of thousands they receive.

Eta...funny enough, i asked my family their thoughts on when a student would do this and how it would work out. 3 days later i see this headline. Ive seen it coming.

I agree that both guidance counselors and professors often fail to really lay out how practical not only a certain degree is, but how the job market really is outside for that degree or field. Very seldom do they really lay it down. For example, in policy or political fields in the real world, almost no one in a graduate school of policy says that getting a good job is nothing but having high level connections or a powerful family. They didn't tell me that, even though they are well known policy makers or leaders. I know they know...

From my own personal experience, college has been completely useless. I'm less than 2 months away from graduating with a BS and I've learned practically nothing from the actual college courses. I have one of the main core classes this last semester. We meet every other week. The professor will talk about news for a while to take up time (I complained previously about his courses being too short when they were sometimes over after just 45 minutes) before flipping through some powerpoint slides without discussing them. What's the weekly homework? Read a chapter in a book and do a quiz with a whopping 5 questions. I've had another class on campus where the professor would literally just come in and sit down at his desk and do nothing the entire class. I kid you not. We all had to just sit there and figure out what we were doing on our own. There were times when students tried to ask questions, but the professor had no idea how to do the things he was supposed to be teaching in the first place, so he had to ask the other students for help. Yes, the professor had to actually ask his students for help to do the work he was supposed to be teaching.
The online classes have been no better... Log in, read a chapter, do a quiz. For like $2,200 per class. I'm paying $2,200 to be told to read a book that I could buy for like $50 and actually own when I'm finished reading it.

I've learned more in a fraction of the time from just reading and watching free online content. If your goal is to actually learn, do it on your own time and money. Don't pay a college thousands of dollars to read a book that you can read on your own, possibly for free. If the career field you want to get into looks for special certifications, study for those instead. A guy in my class said how his friend did a 2-week online course, got a certificate, and because of that certificate, got snatched up into a high-paying job... For 2 weeks of learning as opposed to 3 or 4 years.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Some schools do, some don't. What I found in undergrad is that your positioning for getting a great job for graduation really starts freshman year. In my experience, the students who didn't have great employment prospects at graduation were those who did not really take any steps up until they were about to graduate.

In college, there are two groups of students you generally will see:

1) Those looking for jobs at graduation and
2) Those who want to attend graduate school

Both of these paths require you to prepare basically from Day 1. What happens to those who don't get jobs and can't get into grad school is that they don't decide till the last minute and thus the aren't prepared.

Example, I knew I was going into business. I majored in business. Between Freshman & Sophomore year, I started a small business at a mall. Between Soph & Junior Year I interned a non-profit business association. Between Junior & Sr, I interned in a banking rotation (retail, commercial, and private equity). So when the companies showed up to recruit, who do you think the are going to hire? The person with three solid summers of internships OR the kid who was folding shirts at GAP every summer?

It is the same thing with going to grad school. The students who wanted to go to Med school or Masters degree programs, etc had been planning their moves since freshman year. Having that plan is even more critical to lower ranked the school is and the less tangible the major. An engineering major would have a much easier time than say a history major if they wait till the last minute to find a job. Many companies love engineering majors whereas a history major would have to show some other aptitude (i.e., have minored in econ or something) and have the internships.

a reply to: bender151

OH!!!!!! That sounds like fraud to me then. Lying? C'mon! The thing is, you expect them to tell you these things, you pay money FFS, yet they blame you, the student, who is just going by what the prospectus or course description tells you There needs to be some real guidance counseling in H.S.

I also agree about this loan stuff. These schools, like OSU are raking in billions, yet they are subsidized by the state and federal governments(for certain programs). Yet tuition is through the roof. As someone pointed out, it's because they see all that student loan money pouring in, so they build more buildings, upgrade facilities. Which is why I paralleled it to the housing market.

double

a reply to: Edumakated

What drove me nuts with my oldest is he majored in journalism. Then his junior year he was lamenting the job choices, and I gave him a 3 second "i told you so", followed by 45 minutes of stuff he needed to be doing.

"Have you started a blog to build a body of work?"
"How many semesters have you applied to work at the Toreador (the campus paper)?"
"What kinds of journals are you keeping? One for fiction, one for creative brainstorming, etc? What? None????"

He's not dumb. He should have been in STEM classes, actually. But he has always gone with the romantic notions that blow from random directions.

Yeah, he was very poorly prepared to leverage a degree that is almost impossible to leverage to begin with.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I think my perspective if it being easy is because I spent 24 years in the military, and THEN went to school on my GI Bill. It's a whole lot different when you are doing it for yourself and know you only have so much time to get your degree done(36 months), so you work hard at it.

I just find it appalling at the way some people write. On here, meh, but a no kidding 20 page paper, it looks like high school level work.

An article I read a couple years ago that is very relevant here. There is ar eason that crap degrees are offered. They want enrollment to pay down debt. So they can secure more debt.

Ridiculous. A microcosm of our federal government

www.forbes.com...

As I’ve written previously, the financial model of many colleges and universities -- based on high tuition and high financial aid -- has put the educational and financial goals of universities at cross purposes. Wealthier students pay more in tuition, while poorer students cost the school money. Yet taking more wealthy students and fewer poor students makes college less accessible and less diverse. Similarly, out-of-state students pay higher tuition at public universities than in-state students, so the pressures to bring in more money results in colleges straying further from their goal of educating a state’s students.


Colleges issuing more debt face this paradox even more starkly. To keep their borrowing rates as low as possible, colleges want to keep their credit ratings as high as possible. But credit rating agencies, like Moody’s, could not care less about how accessible the school is to low- and middle-income students when they are assigning a credit rating. What they do care about is how stable a school’s revenue source is, which means encouraging a higher percentage of wealthy and out-of-state students.

But this is not simply a case of plugging holes in the budget. Researchers Charlie Eaton and Jacob Habinek of the University of California - Berkeley found that borrowing goes above and beyond simply replacing public disinvestment. They showed that more borrowed money goes to fund “amenities” projects rather than education-related projects. (Their latest findings and data will be released in the coming month). Universities are making the bet that they can build new sources of revenue: rather than put funds into education, they are investing in areas with potential income streams. New buildings like medical centers, sports stadiums, or dorms can bring in fees and sales, regardless of educational value – and therefore create new openings for more money to come in. Additionally, schools are doubling down on the college arms race: they are hoping to translate this auxiliary spending into higher rankings or more prestige, which can hopefully bring in money from donations, research grants, and more.

The new emphasis on borrowing money to fund the higher education system means that colleges want to keep their borrowing costs as low as possible. In addition to drawing in more out-of-state students (for public universities) and more wealthy students (everyone), schools have lowered their borrowing costs by expanding the pool of collateral against which they borrow. Schools that use “general revenues,” which includes student tuition, to back their borrowing can borrow at cheaper rates than if tuition is kept out of the deal. Take a new parking lot, for example (since UC-Berkeley ranked 1379th in College Prowler’s list of colleges with the best parking options). If UC borrows against general revenues, it can borrow at Aa2. If UC borrows against limited purpose revenues, like the potential revenue from its new parking meters, it borrows at Aa3. It can also restructure in other ways to borrow more cheaply, but these moves carry risks.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
When you're dropping $40-70K per year on tuition you now need some value added benefits for that absurd amount of money.

The value of an education cannot be measured by a financial investment but depends on the individual getting the education, otherwise education becomes a shop where money buys privilege.

And "dropping" $40-70K per year on tuition is peanuts compared with potential earnings over a lifetime.

How about sompe perspective? If someone doesn't get what they think they deserve from their education, the phrase "caveat emptor" comes to mind.

I got as far as I have with NO qualifications. I owe no money, own my house and land, have a great life and measure very little by money except greed and ignorance.

Work hard, take responibility and accountability for the decisions and mistakes you make, have patience and show the world you are worth more rather than telling it.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Edumakated

What drove me nuts with my oldest is he majored in journalism. Then his junior year he was lamenting the job choices, and I gave him a 3 second "i told you so", followed by 45 minutes of stuff he needed to be doing.

"Have you started a blog to build a body of work?"
"How many semesters have you applied to work at the Toreador (the campus paper)?"
"What kinds of journals are you keeping? One for fiction, one for creative brainstorming, etc? What? None????"

He's not dumb. He should have been in STEM classes, actually. But he has always gone with the romantic notions that blow from random directions.

Yeah, he was very poorly prepared to leverage a degree that is almost impossible to leverage to begin with.

Exactly! It is all the OTHER STUFF that gets you the job, not so much the major. My wife was an english major in undergrad. She had several corporate job offers upon graduation. She had three summers of corporate internships (insurance company two summers and then at a top NY ad agency). She got hired because of the internships, not her major.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I'm glad you mentioned STEM schools. Whoda thunk it eh, Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math ARE important!!!!
How long have schools pushed IT crap? Now the US is poorly positioned for STEM technologies. I would have killed to have Embry-Riddle or Lockheed sponsor my school. Or even Ford or GM. They are few and far beteen, but I would encourage my kids to go that route.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I think my perspective if it being easy is because I spent 24 years in the military, and THEN went to school on my GI Bill. It's a whole lot different when you are doing it for yourself and know you only have so much time to get your degree done(36 months), so you work hard at it.

I just find it appalling at the way some people write. On here, meh, but a no kidding 20 page paper, it looks like high school level work.

I'm sure that was interesting returning to school with so much experience.

a reply to: nerbot

Caveat Emptor is an important quality and a foundation of our nation. I preach on behalf of it all the time.

But being truthful in advertising is also important. We learned that while people need to be aware of scams, allowing snake oil salesman to make unfounded claims just wasn't in the public interest.

a reply to: lakenheath24

I was shocked at the junk classes I had to take just to get a simple bachelor's degree so then I could go to law school.

Then I go to law school and discover nothing but lectures-you better be able to learn on your own as well as decipher the inherent "law" of thought.

Then, of course, I found out the true meaning of big state colleges-"FOOTBALL" and whatever sport of the moment-that's where the big money came in-and of course all the professors you never saw because they used their interns in class who were barely understandable while the professors worked on publishing their "papers"-using their students as test subjects.

Supposed high education is basically throwing books at you, teaching yourself and passing two tests.

At the time I was grateful not living at home and the freedom but looking back-what a huge waste. I'm a strong reader and love knowledge but this is a sick system. 40 years ago at least saying you had "a degree" meant something-it means nothing now in the job market.

Need a big overhaul-and for gosh sakes cut the athletic idiots (most in my classes were pathetically dumb).

These kids need job training-it doesn't matter the degree.

Equalizing education for all has just dumbed down the people, fed lies aout what higher education will do for you in life, and financially strapped millions who were fed the lies of college education.

First, kill the lawyers-then move on to financial institutions, highly supported sports programs and government hand-outs that you have to repay the rest of your lives.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: bender151

Its been a long time since I tried to attend college....

....do they provide placement or employment stats to folks choosing their major? That would really help, along with listings of job titles that one could expect to use their education in.

They do, but there is large variance by program in the accuracy and honesty. Some programs have better guidance offices and job placements than others. Also much variance by school.