Baltimore Cops Carried Toy Guns to Plant on People They Shot, Trial Reveals

a reply to: Tempter

In their minds it's an insurance policy for when they f up. I'm not saying they are looking to kill and then plant a gun on someone, but if in their overzealousness they kill someone who was unarmed or not a real threat, they have plan to get out of it.

It is possible that in some cases it could be straight up 1st degree murder as they were robbing dealers..killing them and planting could of been the plan at times.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: Tempter


It is possible that in some cases it could be straight up 1st degree murder as they were robbing dealers..killing them and planting could of been the plan at times.

I had that thought too, I would imagine in its conception it was a "just in case we screw up " kind of thing and developed into a " hey let's # this guy up and take his stash "....

This is what happens when you turn police into villains. No one wants to be a police officer in Baltimore very likely you be shot or attacked by residents. This means they aren't going to get top graduates from police academies. They will get the people that cant find employment elsewhere and normally wouldn't get a job guarding a mall.

a reply to: dragonridr

So you're arguing that corrupt cops are actually the victims? Did it occur to you that some people see police as villains precisely because of corrupt cops like these?

originally posted by: dragonridr
This is what happens when you turn police into villains. No one wants to be a police officer in Baltimore very likely you be shot or attacked by residents. This means they aren't going to get top graduates from police academies. They will get the people that cant find employment elsewhere and normally wouldn't get a job guarding a mall.

Theres a not very thin line between rationalist amd apologist. You passed it a couple miles back.

originally posted by: dragonridr
This is what happens when you turn police into villains. No one wants to be a police officer in Baltimore very likely you be shot or attacked by residents. This means they aren't going to get top graduates from police academies. They will get the people that cant find employment elsewhere and normally wouldn't get a job guarding a mall.

I understand what you are saying, as far as getting the dregs as applicants. I expect that schools in inner cities like that get the lower tier of qualified applicants for teaching positions, which might help explain low graduation rates and low test scores... although it isn't just the teachers that are responsible.
There is no excuse for what these cops did though.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: The GUT

A police officer that I listened to personally talking about these guns called them 'droppers', because you drop them at the crime scene. He too, looked at them as an insurance policy of sorts. A way of taking any doubts away about a shooting that they were involved with.

originally posted by: The GUT

The Sgt. giving the class came in with a briefcase that contained a few items and explained their use. One was the "throwaway" and he showed us how he carried his.

Cops do have a tough job and the intent didn't seem to be to train us how to be "goons" but to mitigate the risks one takes to do the job. That didn't make it right and it didn't sit well with me.

Too often, and too many places, today's LEOs are being trained to kill first and cover up later. Of course they don't put it that way. But the bottom line is that it's more important for them to go home at night than the people they are hired and paid to protect.

And one guy -- Dave Grossman, the "Killologist" -- even tells cops that they'll have the best sex of their life after killing folks in cold blood on the street. What a motivator, eh???

Here's some articles, with additional links in the articles, about what's going on in police training these days if anyone wants to know more.

Albuquerque police lieutenant advertises “Killology” classes
A day with ‘killology’ police trainer Dave Grossman
How Police Training Contributes to Avoidable Deaths
Why On Earth are Police Going to a Class Called “Killology” and Training to be “Warriors”?

originally posted by: dragonridr
This is what happens when you turn police into villains.

No one can turn police into villains except themselves. They are the ones who keep making piss poor excuses for unnecessary and therefore unjustifiably killing people. They are the ones who keep telling us that we are ALL a threat to them. They are the ones who keep telling us that our lives are expendable because it's more important for them to go home at night than the rest of es. They are the ones who keep telling us "oh well" if an innocent dies at their hands because they'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

No one wants to be a police officer in Baltimore very likely you be shot or attacked by residents.

With all that we know about the Baltimore PD, I think cops are a little more worried about the corruption and criminality within the department -- than the people of Baltimore. Ask Sean Suiter... oh wait! You can't:

Baltimore Police Officer Killed Before Testifying Against Fellow Cops

But you can still ask Joe Crystal:

'Rat Cop' Joe Crystal Shunned From Baltimore Police Department

“You know that sickening feeling you get when someone is after you?” Crystal asked. “That’s how I felt every day.”

Just to be clear, in case you don't want to read the entire article and actually inform yourself of the truth, Mr. Crystal was referring to his "fellow" officers... not the people of Baltimore.

This means they aren't going to get top graduates from police academies. They will get the people that cant find employment elsewhere and normally wouldn't get a job guarding a mall.

I cannot speak for Baltimore specifically, but these days police departments don't want "top graduates"... they want lower IQ officers who are less likely to question force and more likely to follow orders. And while I cannot know if this is their intention, in practice, the results are exactly the same:

Baltimore police recruits set to hit the streets with poor understanding of law, academy’s legal instructor says

“We’re giving them a badge and a gun tomorrow, the right to take someone’s liberty, ultimately the right to take someone’s life if it calls for it, and they have not demonstrated they can meet [basic] constitutional and legal standards,” said Sgt. Josh Rosenblatt Friday.

By all means, stand up for those good and righteous and noble men and women putting themselves in harm's way for the greatest good... but making excuses for the piss poor behavior of some, and the outright corruption and criminality of many, isn't doing anyone any good.

originally posted by: projectvxn
The Baltimore PD has a lot to answer for.

Between this story and what happened in Broward County, I feel my faith in the institution of law enforcement beginning to wane again.

You can't have this kind of crap going on and then trash movements like BLM for being mad at exactly this. Something I am guilty of doing

I know that if I had a force of armed men and women targeting me like the cops in Baltimore target people, I'd be a little defensive too.

This doesn't mean I agree with BLM or anti-cop groups. It means, simply, that I will be far more critical of police institutions going forward.

It's one of the reasons I think that ALL officers, everywhere should have body cams, on at all times during a shift. It's really in everyones best interest in order to have the actual facts when it comes to police encounters.

Also, while off topic, it points to just how important our RIGHT to self defense(via the 2nd) really is. You can't trust ANYONE other than yourself, not a good cop(can't just appear out of nowhere), not a bad cop(be better not to have called) and not even your best buddy down the street. I wish those that seem to be so distrusting of authority(anti police) wouldn't be the same fools that go along with the anti second crowds. You'd think they could put 2 and 2 together.

I don't know if you guys remember that Baltimore cop that was killed a few months back the day before he was supposed to testify in a corruption trial. These are the guys he was going to be testifying against.

His murder still remains unsolved.

Another thing worth mentioning, about a month ago when all the things these guys did came to light the Mayor forced the Commissioner to resign. The official reason is that it didn't seem like he was doing enough to curb crime in the city. The timing of it though seems pretty coincidental.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I think Boadicea's post that's 2 above yours is referring to the same officer who was "coincidentally" killed.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Xcalibur254

I think Boadicea's post that's 2 above yours is referring to the same officer who was "coincidentally" killed.

If they don't have any problem killing their own, I don't think we (meaning us regular peon civilians) mean too much to them.
Scary.

a reply to: butcherguy

What kind of parent tells their kids to trust cops? Every cop is trained to lie to your face if it suits them.

www.rollingstone.com... aine-texas-hidalgo-county-20150105
America seem to be a breeding ground for Corruption that seem to be thriving

The Panama Unit operated one of the most efficient drug-robbery rings in Texas, taking money from some dealers and traffickers while using their weapons and cars to rob others.




a reply to: butcherguy

This is awesome. I'd seriously consider becoming a cop if I wasn't getting ready to get into a 6 figure salary career field.
Shoot a local "undesirable" to death, drop a toy gun that all the cops know you have, go home and tell your wife all about the very dangerous man who almost murdered you in the line of duty and then **** her brains out after dinner while your brothers in arms cover for you to hide their own killings. Tomorrow you even get to see yourself hailed as a hero on the evening news... Whew, what a life. Gives me a rush just thinkin' about it.

Whether I'm being sarcastic or completely serious, the fact that some officers become officers due to thinking exactly like this should alarm the hell out of everyone.

originally posted by: bender151
a reply to: butcherguy

What kind of parent tells their kids to trust cops? Every cop is trained to lie to your face if it suits them.

I don't but the schools do, and they want parents to do it too.

What an embarrassment and shame, if true.

Be prepared for private policing to become a factor, already heard discussions of just that. Bonding, insurance and other forms of "accountability" are being preached almost daily.

And with incidents like this, assuming it is factual/accurate, one hardly has to wonder why.

These incidents look terrible, but try to remember this is one person (or one small group of corrupt criminal faux-LEOs) not the totality of LE in this country

a reply to: butcherguy

I read this somewhere before, although this has updated information.

These guys sound like Baltimore's Finest...pieces of sh*t. I don't know all of the specifics of the case, but with only two holding out as being not-guilty, it's most likely a testament to their hubris where they probably still think that they're above the law.

But only time will tell, I suppose.

Regardless, I hope that it was only this team, and this ends with these trials. But seeing over the years the worst that Baltimore has to offer splattered all over national news, it's not surprising that a city with so many...questionable...citizens would also have a police force with some...questionable...individuals as well.

Book 'em, Danno. Hopefully someone plants a shiv on them in prison, assuming that they're guilty, of course.

a reply to: JBurns

It's also Baltimore, which is a known hotbed of institutionalized corruption--no agency will be completely immune, sadly enough.

a reply to: trollz


It is alarming. And disgusting. And despicable. And wrong.

But try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Lots of good men and women serving their communities out there

Do some cops have the psychotic "make my day" attitude? Of course. Most, however, would be broken as a person if they ever had to defend themselves with lethal force