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Elizabeth Warren refuses DNA test to prove Native American heritage

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posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 02:50 AM
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Funny, during my years doing ancestry research, I came across several genealogists who said that most Americans "i'm part indian" stories they heard from some relative are BS. I had heard it about my mother's side too, hell my mother even looks a good deal native American, but I recently got the ancestry DNA done, and I am less than 1% Native American (east asian technically). So basically ONE, of my 128 5th-great grandparents was Native American.

C'mon Liz, you got better than that???




posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 03:21 AM
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a reply to: redhorse

Then how did the grandparents know Warrens mom was part Native Americans if her genealogy was secret. Hiding kids with other families is not the same as forging birth records, or lying who the biological patents are to the actual children.

Again, how would the grandparents know of a secret lineage? So the whole story is contradictory at best, and not the least bit credible, and with not proof. More of a willful fabrication.

Any love letters from the parents outlining the drama? Diary entries? Did the grandparents go to the wedding?

Is there any proof whatsoever?
edit on 15-3-2018 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 03:47 AM
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a reply to: redhorse

And please cite a source how DNA testing is not accurate. The testing would show statistically if Warren had any similar genes with Native Americans.




Proving Native American Ancestry Using DNA
dna-explained.com...

Generally, DNA testing does not provide us with the information needed to determine a tribe, although it can clearly tell, using y-line or mitochondrial DNA testing, whether your direct paternal or maternal line was or was not Native.



Please spin how DNA testing is not accurate in showing if an individual is statistically or not statistically having the genes indicating Narrative American lineage?

edit on 15-3-2018 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 07:45 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: redhorse

And please cite a source how DNA testing is not accurate. The testing would show statistically if Warren had any similar genes with Native Americans.




Proving Native American Ancestry Using DNA
dna-explained.com...

Generally, DNA testing does not provide us with the information needed to determine a tribe, although it can clearly tell, using y-line or mitochondrial DNA testing, whether your direct paternal or maternal line was or was not Native.



Please spin how DNA testing is not accurate in showing if an individual is statistically or not statistically having the genes indicating Narrative American lineage?


I've already explained it more than once in this thread, including once to you specifically. You even got a link sunshine. If it's over your head than it's over your head.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:10 AM
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a reply to: redhorse

So you don’t dispute the DNA test wound establish if she had Native American traits in here DNA?

She will not take the test, I just quoted a source DNA testing can determine if a individual is of Native American lineage, she has no genealogy / lineage evidence, no love letters / diaries to back her story.

Bottom line, the narrative is not credible in anyway.



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:15 AM
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a reply to: redhorse

DNA tests are used to screen individuals submitting to join Native American tribes. Is that a false statement.

As more DNA testing is conducted, DNA testing becomes more accurate. Is that a false statement.

If Warren is so proud of her Native American supposed lineage, I would think she would want to trace it to a specific tribe? To a specific ancestor?



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:46 AM
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Tribal Enrollment and Genetic Testing

By Jessica Bardill (Cherokee), PhD

genetics.ncai.org...

One type of DNA testing called DNA fingerprinting can be used to help document close biological relationships, such as those between parents and children, as well as among other close family members. Other kinds of testing for genetic ancestry use markers to see how similar an individual is to a broader population or group, based on probabilities drawn from databases of research on populations and group genetic characteristics.


I would think Warren would want to see if she shares any DNA characteristics with Native Americans?



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: neutronflux

My wild guess is She has a test and it shows 0% NA.

She is a known liar and phony.

For the record, I have 9.375% Cherokee myself (3/32).

The DNA test I took confirmed my Mother's Family tree history from old records.

😎



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 07:59 PM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: redhorse

DNA tests are used to screen individuals submitting to join Native American tribes. Is that a false statement.


Sort of. They use it to prove maternity or paternity and as far as I know, there is NO tribe that uses DNA ethnicity testing to decide tribal enrollment. Determining maternity or paternity is a completely different process than these ethnicity tests, and is far more reliable.

Different tribes have different standards. They all require a paper trail that is definitive (birth certificates for the most part) that prove that lineage. For many tribes a 1/32 isn't Indian enough. Someone on this thread said that the Cherokee use DNA testing, but I think it is probable that whoever said that is mistaking the maternity and paternity tests for the ethnicity tests:


The Mashpee Wampanoag and the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians have used DNA testing to prove or disprove both maternity and paternity claims by potential tribal enrollees. While the Mashpee have been using the testing for a decade as one piece of information obtained in their application for enrollment, the EBCI turned to this method of corroborating birth records and supporting applications for tribal enrollment after an audit of the rolls by the Falmouth Institute indicated that many documents, such as birth certificates, were missing from files of enrolled citizens.


Link

Once again, maternity and paternity testing are completely different from ethnicity "testing".

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: redhorse
As more DNA testing is conducted, DNA testing becomes more accurate. Is that a false statement.


That is true and with time these will get better. However, because of recombination it will never be definitive regarding autosomal DNA (which is what they use to test for ethnicities). Not. Ever.


originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: redhorseIf Warren is so proud of her Native American supposed lineage, I would think she would want to trace it to a specific tribe? To a specific ancestor?


Absolutely, especially if she is claiming it to gain an advantage. Unfortunately, as of now, regarding genetic testing, that can be difficult to do with mixed blood individuals, and for those with only trace amounts, frankly impossible.

It is unlikely that she can prove a specific ancestor with DNA testing unless it is a direct maternity or paternity test, which won't tell her anything except who her parents are. Unless they have that specific ancestor archived to test her against or a descendant in a data base somewhere there is no pinning it down to a specific ancestor. When using DNA testing to help with genealogical research you are always confined to the limits of the database. What is on file to compare to and see whose DNA you share.
edit on 15-3-2018 by redhorse because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-3-2018 by redhorse because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: redhorse

Simple true or false, DNA testing would show if she shared any DNA traits that are
attributed to Native Americans.

If she has no DNA traits of Narrative Americans, statically she has no Narrative American lineage. There would be no doubt. Is that false. It would be like saying you won poweball without ever buying a ticket.


The only scenario for confusion is she matched only a few DNA traits common to different ethnic groups that shared DNA traits with Narrative Americans. Is that false? Then you could give her the benefit of doubt.





What is it?
Tribal enrollment tests are DNA tests that can aid a person who is seeking to be added to membership registry of an American Indian tribe. Each tribe sets its own enrollment criteria, but in general, it is necessary to prove one’s heritage with a tribe. This can be shown through DNA testing of the person seeking enrollment and a person who is already on the tribe’s enrollment list.

Why should I use it?
This testing is performed to help gain enrollment on the membership registry of an American Indian tribe.

www.labcorpdna.com...





www.theroot.com...

If your DNA results reveal that you do not have Native American ancestry, you can save yourself the time and energy of trying to locate a Native American ancestor who does not exist.




For genealogical purposes, there are three main types of DNA tests that are available: Y-chromosome (Y-DNA) tests for the direct paternal line, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) tests for the direct maternal line, and autosomal DNA (atDNA) tests for finding matches on all your ancestral lines.

www.genie1.com.au...


edit on 15-3-2018 by neutronflux because: Added and fix

edit on 15-3-2018 by neutronflux because: Fixed more

edit on 15-3-2018 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Mar, 15 2018 @ 09:30 PM
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If Warren wants to believe she is Native American, that is her choice.

What credible evidence and vetting has offical groups provided that Warren is associated with to title her as Native American?

First Europeans displaced Native Americans, then a white woman steals the glory of Native American ancestry to build her romantic narrative. A story I don’t have to believe because there is no cited evidence?
edit on 15-3-2018 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed.

edit on 15-3-2018 by neutronflux because: Fixed more



posted on Mar, 16 2018 @ 08:03 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: redhorse

Simple true or false, DNA testing would show if she shared any DNA traits that are
attributed to Native Americans.

If she has no DNA traits of Narrative Americans, statically she has no Narrative American lineage. There would be no doubt. Is that false. It would be like saying you won poweball without ever buying a ticket.


The only scenario for confusion is she matched only a few DNA traits common to different ethnic groups that shared DNA traits with Narrative Americans. Is that false? Then you could give her the benefit of doubt.





What is it?
Tribal enrollment tests are DNA tests that can aid a person who is seeking to be added to membership registry of an American Indian tribe. Each tribe sets its own enrollment criteria, but in general, it is necessary to prove one’s heritage with a tribe. This can be shown through DNA testing of the person seeking enrollment and a person who is already on the tribe’s enrollment list.

Why should I use it?
This testing is performed to help gain enrollment on the membership registry of an American Indian tribe.

www.labcorpdna.com...





www.theroot.com...

If your DNA results reveal that you do not have Native American ancestry, you can save yourself the time and energy of trying to locate a Native American ancestor who does not exist.




For genealogical purposes, there are three main types of DNA tests that are available: Y-chromosome (Y-DNA) tests for the direct paternal line, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) tests for the direct maternal line, and autosomal DNA (atDNA) tests for finding matches on all your ancestral lines.

www.genie1.com.au...



You are incorrect. I am not aware of any tribe that uses DNA ethnicity testing for enrollment.

From your own link:


It is important to note that genetics will not legally establish your Native ancestry, since most Native communities do not accept DNA tests for enrollment in the tribe.


Your Own Link

So your own link gives you your simple yes or no and it's a "No".

They are just telling you that DNA testing may be a place to start. If you do have Native America DNA (which means that for sure you have a native ancestor in the last 2-3 generations, after that it gets iffy), then by all means start hunting.

However, even if it is not there that does not necessarily mean that you do not have a Native American ancestor.

Listen, this happened to me. On 23andme I have a relative, listed as a 3-4 cousin that is full Yupik. My 23andme ancestry profile did not reflect this. When she contacted me we actually had an argument and I ended up looking like an a$$ and had to apologize.

I got

Took.

To.

School.

By this woman. All of our shared relatives are native, and yet, my 23andme DNA profile says nothing about Native Ancestry. Hers says she is full Native. Weird right?

However, when I looked on GedMatch, I was able to find it, in trace amounts. I was also a full on hit for Clovis for ancient DNA. I was also informed that in small amounts many calculators will categorize Native American/American Indian ancestry as East Asian.

Our shared ancestor is probably a 3rd to 4th great grandparent. Which would make me what? A 1/32? a 1/64? Less even? Not enough for most ethnicity calculators to confidently assign that category, so they just... skip it. Or call it "unassigned" because it can't sort it out. It's just not (often) a simple yes or no, black or white when it comes to trace amounts of a given ancestry.

For the record, I don't consider myself Yupik any more than I consider myself black or Asian (yup that's there too) but those ethnicities are part of my heritage. In my view, if you are white (the dominant race) and have to walk around with a T-shirt that says "No really I'm American Indian" AND (this is important) you were not brought up in the culture, then you are not an Indian. There are some exceptions to that, but in her case, she was wrong.

All I'm saying is that these ethnicity calculators likely won't definitively prove anything. I'm not sure why that upsets you so much, but whatever. They clearly won't prove anything to those (such as yourself) who want to be outraged about it (no matter what, even in the face of overwhelming evidence apparently).

Listen. At this point, it's clear that I'm dealing with someone who can't learn because they don't want to have their world view challenged. So, I'm done.

Also, LabCorp is a notorious scam. Nobody who knows anything about genealogy uses them. It's laughable. Check their reviews. They are trying to sell something and the spiel they are giving about Native American enrollment is utter BS.



posted on Mar, 16 2018 @ 08:26 AM
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I have no doubt Warren has already had a private DNA test done and knows that there is no Cherokee, or any other Native American in her family line. IF there was even a trace she would make a public spectacle of proving Trump wrong.
Warren got caught in a lie and doesn't have enough honor or humility to admit it.
She deserves to mocked and humiliated and called "Pocahontas" until she admits the truth.
In my humble opinion.
edit on 3/16/2018 by Sparky63 because: spelling

edit on 3/16/2018 by Sparky63 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2018 @ 07:43 AM
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a reply to: redhorse

What you are saying is you did test positive for traits shared with Native Americans?

And why would Native Americans not have traits shared with Asian ethnic groups?




There are at least three deep lineages in Native American populations,” said co-author David Reich, Professor of genetics at Harvard Medical School. “The Asian lineage leading to First Americans is the most anciently diverged, whereas the Asian lineages that contributed some of the DNA to Eskimo–Aleut speakers and the Na-Dene-speaking Chipewyan from Canada are more closely related to present-day East Asian populations.
www.ucl.ac.uk...



I am not trying to insult you. But you should have traits consistent with your relatives.

I am sorry, but you might investigate your own genetic history.



However, when I looked on GedMatch, I was able to find it, in trace amounts. I was also a full on hit for Clovis for ancient DNA. I was also informed that in small amounts many calculators will categorize Native American/American Indian ancestry as East Asian.


Like I said, Native American share traits with other ethnic groups. If Warren had any of those DNA traits, I could giver her the benefit of the doubt.

I still stand by, and noticed you ignored.... and you actually legitimized?

If she has no DNA traits of Narrative Americans, statically she has no Narrative American lineage. There would be no doubt. Is that false. It would be like saying you won poweball without ever buying a ticket.

The only scenario for confusion is she matched only a few DNA traits common to different ethnic groups that shared DNA traits with Narrative Americans. Is that false? Then you could give her the benefit of doubt.

Isn’t the last that what happen to you? You have a DNA trait shared with ethnic groups, but not shared with European lineage?

Is there any proof I should give Warren the benefit of the truth.

It seems we have established a DNA test will establish if Warren has any DNA traits indicative of Narrative American. There is no lineage/ genealogy proof? No love letters or diary entries.


I find it strange you bash DNA testing that is used to trace the ancestry and history of Native Americans in peer reviewed studies.

You have cited only a personal history that shows you do share DNA traits with Native Americans. In turn, Native Americans that have Asian lineage?

Can you cite a source that lists DNA testing would miss if Warren had any DNA traits known for Native Americans? Be it DNA traits solely attributed to Native Americans, or DNA traits shared with other ethnic groups?



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