Elephant trophy hunting, and Trump’s confusing positions on it, explained

a reply to: introvert

Hunting is essential human behavior. It does not take someone special to do what humans evolved to do.

originally posted by: Plotus



LEAVE THE ELEPHANTS BE, LET THEM LIVE.

For another week until disease has them die naturally

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Hunting is essential human behavior. It does not take someone special to do what humans evolved to do.

Hunting is no longer an act of survival. It is an act of entertainment and tradition.

While man did evolve to hunt animals for survival, man also continued to evolve to a point where such things are not necessary due to technology, ingenuity, etc.

a reply to: introvert

You miss the point entirely. Allow me to illustrate.

You can choose one of two fates:

Be bred in captivity, with your food chosen for you, your ability to move severly limited, you cant just breed when you want. The males of your species are often killed at birth unless breeding stock. You will be rounded up and killed in a charnel house.

Or

Born in a forest, walked where you liked, chose your own food and you MAYBE felled by a bullet with no warning and just drop dead.

But yeah! Farming is way better. Sheesh.

a reply to: introvert

You are grossly misusing the term "evolve".

The only difference between hunting and shopping is in one you dont have to get dirty. That doesnt make you in any way superior. Nor me mentally ill. Youve simply paid to have someone do your dirty work.

FWIW game meat actually is cheaper if you arent doing the whole outfit thing. I can drive my truck down to public land with my licence and rifle and bring home a few thousand worth of pork and venison.

Do you call anglers mentally ill too? Or just hunters?

I bet you live in the city.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Can you sell it?...The meat?.

a reply to: skalla

You can choose one of two fates:

Incorrect. Animals do not have that choice. In fact, humans do not have that choice either.

originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Can you sell it?...The meat?.

I cant legally. But i can buy it from a wild game meat vendor. Its not cheap at all.

We have served frenched elk crown for a special event once or twice

Eta...i can sell it in my restaurant if its purchased from an inspected vendor. I cannot sell my own hunts in a restaurant without USDA approval.

Wild game is expensive.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The only difference between hunting and shopping is in one you dont have to get dirty. That doesnt make you in any way superior. Nor me mentally ill. Youve simply paid to have someone do your dirty work.

I did not say it made me superior, but I will say that if someone hunts/kills for pleasure/trophy there is something wrong with them.

FWIW game meat actually is cheaper if you arent doing the whole outfit thing. I can drive my truck down to public land with my licence and rifle and bring home a few thousand worth of pork and venison.

Cheaper in general, or cheaper than what is available at the store?

Do you call anglers mentally ill too? Or just hunters?

If they are fishing for the sake of killing something, then yes, there is something wrong with them.

I bet you live in the city.

I do, I'm not sure how that is relevant. You do not know my background and where I have been up to this point. I may not be that old, relative to the apparent age of most on ATS, but I have been around the block a time or two and have been out in the field hunting. I'm not talking about something I have never experienced.

I've been there. I've see the horrible things hunters can do and I regrettably admit I have taken part in such things.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: SlapMonkey

Most people are not born with their own land and a gun in their hand. They do have to purchase such things, but I did not say all at once, as you did.

Do not misrepresent what I said.

It was implied in what you said and how you presented it, and I'm quite certain you understand that.

I made specific statements and stand by them. You are playing games by saying silly stuff.

Oh, well...if you stand by them, by all means, they must be correct and accurate.

So you have no comment on the specifics that I mentioned?

No, because your specifics hold no merit for comment.

How nice. Tradition and stuff. Happy fathers and happy kids out in the fields of joy murdering # for fun.

And this is why your "specifics" warrant no comment, because you have no logic or reason contained in your argument of "mental illness" and "murdering sh*t just for fun."

You are being willfully ignorant on the topic of discussion for the sake of ideological idiocy, and you're succeeding with honors.

Now the real question is does that make any financial sense. I can get chicken for $1-$1.25 a lb. Can you get the deer for that amount or cheeper? I can go a mile down the road, get my food, no need for a firearm, a licence, land rights, etc, and get back home in a matter of 20 minutes.

Can you do that hunting?

No.

Do you comprehend that I'm talking about wild game, like deer, and you're talking about cage-raised chicken? You are conflating two completely different points, here. Not everyone wants to buy the cheapest chicken raised in the least humane ways and slaughtered and processed with no regard for life.

The point that you're missing here is this, and it's simple: The vast majority of hunters have a respect for life that these meat-processing plants and bulk-meat raising facilities completely lack, but at the end of the day, it's all the same result--an animal is dead, being cooked and consumed as food for a human.

Just because you don't have to witness it in person or take part in that, but are still willing to enjoy the benefits of the process is a testament to how separated you are from reality. You piss and moan about a person hunting their own meat, but praise the fact that we have grocery stores that supply the same thing with 50 middle-men in between the animal and your refrigerator.

If that's what you want to do, that's fine, but don't pretend like you are situated on some moral high ground above hunters, because I guarantee you that every supermarket throws away exponentially more meat per year, wasting the lives of animals, than hunters in America kill for themselves and their families.

Your pretentious, lacking viewpoint on this matter is almost as laughable as some of the comments that you make, but the fact that you keep repeating the same garbage over and over negates said humor.

The rest of your comments to me are unnecessary, as I refuse to debate further with you on this matter. I apologize for the ad hominems, but damn, when you're basically admitting these things yourself within your comments, I'm just citing the obvious.

Best regards...enjoy your cheap supermarket chicken and all that time you saved by not hunting--I'm sure glad that you put it to good use, like with these deep and well-researched comments on ATS...

Rudolph, out!

a reply to: introvert

I cannot find venison at the store. So any price would beat that.

I can order it online for a hefty sum though.

You living in the city is relevant when you state that hunters are mentally ill. It is just another support in my belief that the urban/rural disconnect is becomming alarming

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: howtonhawky

I dunno man....its not like we have any right telling africa that they cany become a successful economy. Europeans killed all their large animals and it facilitated civilization. Now we want to tell Afruca they cant? So much for sovereignty.

Africa is the fastest growing population on the planet. Encroachment will not stop. So the options are to fund conservation or just give up.

well we have the internet now and things will not go the way of europe in that sense. the encroachment will stop and simply throwing hands in the air will not cut it this time around.imo

there are more options than you see.

funding conservation is not even close to the same in africa as it is in the usa.

from what i can see most of the energy being spent on the subject goes toward propaganda.

just try searchin for facts on the subject and you will find it is one of the most propagandized sport on the web with much funds going to google.

personally i am thinking that it will take mercenaries to make the difference and just possible that someone withsome funds will get the ball rolling.

you know what sport is more rare than killing an elephant or lion? Hunting spoiled hunters will be the new adrenaline kick.

there is another option right there.

of coarse it will have to be done with more secrecy than hunting extinct animals but could be much fun for those in our world who have already had the taste of human blood and have an itch to scratch.

you may be thinkin that it would not work but i disagree and double down that it is just a matter of money cause those same peeps in africa taking the hunters money are like honey badgers they don't give a damn where the funds come from. only who is paying the most. you may be saying that is illegal and to that i say it never happened.

how many bags will be filled before these rich spoiled hunters get the message. sadly it will not take many.

i was taught long ago that no matter how strong a gun makes one feel there is always someone more stronger than one can perceive.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

It was implied in what you said and how you presented it, and I'm quite certain you understand that.

It was not implied. That is how you interpreted it.

Oh, well...if you stand by them, by all means, they must be correct and accurate.

Ok.

No, because your specifics hold no merit for comment.

Or you have no proper rebuttal.

And this is why your "specifics" warrant no comment, because you have no logic or reason contained in your argument of "mental illness" and "murdering sh*t just for fun." You are being willfully ignorant on the topic of discussion for the sake of ideological idiocy, and you're succeeding with honors.

To attempt to refute my position by appealing to illogical aspects such as tradition is absurd. That is equal to an emotional appeal. It was met with a proper response.

Do you comprehend that I'm talking about wild game, like deer, and you're talking about cage-raised chicken? You are conflating two completely different points, here.

We are talking about food, are we not? How are I conflating the issue?

Not everyone wants to buy the cheapest chicken raised in the least humane ways and slaughtered and processed with no regard for life.

Regard for life? Do you realize how ridiculous and ironic that is, considering the topic?

The point that you're missing here is this, and it's simple: The vast majority of hunters have a respect for life that these meat-processing plants and bulk-meat raising facilities completely lack, but at the end of the day, it's all the same result--an animal is dead, being cooked and consumed as food for a human.

There ya go. Exactly my point. The result is the same, but in the case of hunting, that is done for pleasure, not necessity.

Just because you don't have to witness it in person or take part in that, but are still willing to enjoy the benefits of the process is a testament to how separated you are from reality.

The reality is that we have to eat. No way around it. What we do not need is to kill for pleasure. If you kill out of want and not for need, something is wrong.

If that's what you want to do, that's fine, but don't pretend like you are situated on some moral high ground above hunters, because I guarantee you that every supermarket throws away exponentially more meat per year, wasting the lives of animals, than hunters in America kill for themselves and their families.

I never said I was on some moral high ground and I'm not sure how waste is part of anything I have said. It has nothing to do with my basic argument.

Your pretentious, lacking viewpoint on this matter is almost as laughable as some of the comments that you make, but the fact that you keep repeating the same garbage over and over negates said humor.

Still can't make a solid argument for hunting, huh? Have to go after the player, since you do not know how to handle the ball?

The rest of your comments to me are unnecessary, as I refuse to debate further with you on this matter. I apologize for the ad hominems, but damn, when you're basically admitting these things yourself within your comments, I'm just citing the obvious.

Admitting what?

Best regards...enjoy your cheap supermarket chicken and all that time you saved by not hunting--I'm sure glad that you put it to good use, like with these deep and well-researched comments on ATS...

Thank you. I will.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I cannot find venison at the store. So any price would beat that. I can order it online for a hefty sum though.

Going out and killing it yourself comes at a hefty price as well.

You living in the city is relevant when you state that hunters are mentally ill.

Now make sure you put what I said in proper context. Hunting for sport or pleasure is a sign that something is wrong. If someone has to hunt to feed their family and it is the most logical avenue to do so, I understand that.

I would bet that very few people that hunt are in such a position.

It is just another support in my belief that the urban/rural disconnect is becomming alarming

That is a very real issue and I would probably share your concern on that.

a reply to: introvert

If someone has to hunt to feed their family and it is the most logical avenue to do so, I understand that.

it defies logic to think that a person who really needs food could put off their hunger until deer season comes around and then have a weapon that they did not sell to make ends meet until season arrived.

let's say that one does wait or the timing of the hunger or need for food coincides with hunting season then they still have to buy a license and if they have no gun and want to go primitive then it cost more for an archery stamp.

it is clear that season is designed for sport and not to relieve hunger.

on the bright side though is that the season and hunting does work well to protect most species in the usa and i am grateful for that but just not willing to pretend that if one is in need of food that hunting is even an option in those cases unless one becomes a criminal. It is a rich mans game these days.

a reply to: introvert

It costs me a bullet. And an annual licence. Fraction of the cost. For wild boar its even cheaper. Just hunt free public land.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

become poor then see how much it cost you!

a reply to: howtonhawky

A bullet, license fee, and gas to drive to public land. Same for any economic class.

a reply to: howtonhawky

Bull


I lived in Wyoming and knew several subsistence hunters. Poor as hell, couldnt survive without the hunt. Never sold their rifles

Not everyone is poor due to being stupid.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: howtonhawky

Bull


I lived in Wyoming and knew several subsistence hunters. Poor as hell, couldnt survive without the hunt. Never sold their rifles

Not everyone is poor due to being stupid.

oh i see since you know of a couple cases where hunting was their lively hood you think others are stupid for being poor and not having access.

you can not feel the full effect of being poor and closed in by society until you are poor and closed in by society no matter what you have told yourself in order to overcome other peoples strife.

like i said become poor and then see what life has to offer you.

there is not enough land or animals to support the majority of poor people to live off the land

the good news is that our economy is coming back