Over 500 Canadian doctors protest raises, say they're being paid too much (yes, too much)

Excellent News.

Canadian physicians don't want to be like the U.S., with Nurses being the golf-course caddies for wealthy doctors, to make ends meet.

Don't expect to see this article in the monthly American Medical Association newsletter.

originally posted by: Metallicus
You and the doctors sound like a bunch of closet Communists. The years of training, job stress and high cost of a medical education deserve high compensation. These doctors sound like idiots.

They sound like people that have to wait on support staff to get their jobs done. This makes sense. Beef up the clerks, nurses and other support staff. Get the job done quicker and make an earlier tee time. You have to think it through.

a reply to: Metallicus

Nah, they're just not greed-mongering sociopaths like youre used to seeing in America and much of the world.

Their points are totally legitimate, honorable even, and youre going to bash them?

....right.

originally posted by: Metallicus
You and the doctors sound like a bunch of closet Communists. The years of training, job stress and high cost of a medical education deserve high compensation. These doctors sound like idiots.

Uhh if you go through the Canadian doctorate programs in medical studies and get your credentials you have a job for the rest of your life, you will never need to worry about bills or a decent standard of living ever. And they never need to worry about running a business or worry about keeping patients, it's not like in some places where doctors need to worry about keeping a job or owning their own practice.

a reply to: Metallicus
You really don't have any idea what it's like in Canada if this is your response. You need to understand how the system works and why they're concerned about the gap in how much they're paid vs how much goes back into the system for patient care.

When I shattered my ankle and had to get surgery to fix it, I had to wait five days in a partial cast because the specialist had no openings. I couldn't walk at all. That was extremely painful and hard on the family as well as myself.

When I finally got the last minute call to rush to the hospital, 2 hours drive away no less, we arrived to find a hospital that was over-full. The ER was packed to the point where they had people on stretchers in all the adjoining hallways and people were standing around waiting. Sat there for an hour before they could get to me to sign me in for the operation. I was then informed that they were unfortunately full and there were NO available beds to put me in. (it turns out that the hospital they sent me to was the same one where they dump the indigent patients and the patients brought in by the police.)

I was put in the ER ortho room and sat in there for close to 4 hours as they tried to figure out what to do with me.

Once they did, I ended up in a room that was already full. I was sandwiched in between one of the beds and the closet on an ER stretcher, not even a regular hospital bed. Uncomfortable, no call button, no phone, no TV, not allowed food or drink, and no way to get out of bed to the washroom even if I was allowed. The nurses had to squeeze through a narrow space just to check on me during rounds and without a call button, getting anyone to respond was not happening.

Hell, I ended up getting a blood transfusion and the IV cannula was poorly placed so that it came out when the tape got caught on my blanket. I had blood dripping everywhere from the line and my arm. I had the line pinched to stop the leaking and my arm bent to try and stop the bleeding and no way to tell the nurses. The nurses were short staffed as well and had way too many patients to deal with, so it was a long wait until someone happened by and I could get their attention.

Needless to say, the four day hospital stay was a bad one and didn't improve over the course, even after I finally got moved to a real bed in the surgical ward.

Funding for health care here in Alberta is abysmal and cuts are constantly being handed down which keeps escalating an already bad situation in hospitals. Not enough nursing staff, huge turnover, not enough beds which makes patient stays over long as they wait to be seen/treated. From what I've seen, the situation is similar in other provinces. It makes little sense to raise wages of doctors, when funding for healthcare is being slashed and burned and patients suffer the effects.

I see what they're doing in Quebec with this protest. People need to realize just how broken the health care system is in Canada. Yes, we get free health care, but it's not all sunshine and rainbows. There are plenty of times when the system fails the patients spectacularly. There's a reason some Canadians cross the border to the US for prescriptions or treatment, or even head to Mexico or overseas.

a reply to: Cabin

It's about time someone took the Canadian government to task about their cuts to health care. Trudeau was and continues to be a force of destruction to this once proud country..remember when we took care of one another ? When it was known to all that Canadians care for one another and would go out of their way to help those in need.

The image this country has in the world now makes me ashamed to have once been proud of this country.

a reply to: Metallicus

These Docs should move to California. They'd fit right in.

originally posted by: threeeyesopen
a reply to: Cabin

It's about time someone took the Canadian government to task about their cuts to health care. Trudeau was and continues to be a force of destruction to this once proud country..remember when we took care of one another ? When it was known to all that Canadians care for one another and would go out of their way to help those in need.

The image this country has in the world now makes me ashamed to have once been proud of this country.

Get real.

Canadians banded together to vote out conservative crooks who were destroying the face and identity of Canada. Don't ever say we don't care for one another, it's only people who think of dollars and cents that make Canada look bad.
We are NOT the US, we are NOT the rest of the world, Canada works the way it needs to, and it's worked fine without GREED in our politics, the house of commons speaks loud and clear, we do not need crony capitalists running our nation!

Don't hear a peep from the GD dentists tho.

If anyone makes more than they are worth, it's them vampires.

#dentistssuck

(In canada here)

My doc deserves every penny. 3 live saving surgeries. Constant daily care and gets me on the transplant list.

Pay him more

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Cabin


And that's a worthy goal, for sure, but in the end, like I said, they could donate their own salaries to things like this if they really were that passionate about it.

except donating their extra pay would be pointless. there are cases of communities raising millions of dollars to buy certain medical equipment for their hospital. yet years later and that equipment is still not there. yet at the same time other hospitals have been given that very same equipment, without having to pay for it.

there are also cases where millions of dollars have been raised to build a hospital in their area. again with no hospital being built. and yet again there are hospitals being built without the need to raise money for it. and we are even talking about state of the art hospitals that even have robots running around to run people over.

one big question of course is just where are those millions of dollars from the raised funds? have they been misappropriated like the Canadian government likes to do. and used to buy the equipment and build hospitals elsewhere? so yes they could donate their extra money. and be assured that most likely it would not be used for what they are wanting.

i wish i could find the articles i saw on this just yesterday. the fact is that Canadian healthcare has been going downhill since socialized medicine was started. drugs are not covered, and i'm not sure they ever were covered. although they just this year started to pay for medication only for children. one of the first things cut years ago was dental care. something that in more recent times has been linked to being extremely important in regards to a person's total health. back in the early 2000's they cut paying for things like physiotherapy and chiropractic care at all. as well as things like eye exams. all because they needed to save money since they are going broke. for years now it has been fairly normal to have to wait over a year to see specialists. and that is just the start of the wait to get medical help. and even after you get to see a specialist they always first just try pushing pills (which you have to pay for, and for those without private health insurance can not afford), and only as a seemingly last resort try to do things to actually fix the problem. i know too many people who have suffered from things like severe pain for years due to this. one friend they even just kept putting him on stronger and stronger pain killers. after more than SIX YEARS, they finally did tests, and found out he was not suffering from an injury, but instead had STOMACH CANCER. six years of living in severe pain, and being doped up, and unable to work. yet once they actually looked for and found the real cause they were able to deal with it. and now is completely fine. too bad he had to live (and at least failed his suicide attempts due to living in pain for so long), for 6 years in severe pain first. now the newest thing is "assisted suicide being legal. and so now they are working to convince patients to kill themselves (and in cases like dementia, trying to convince those with the power of attorney to kill off their loved ones). often quoting the severe lack of medical bed space and the cost of care and how they are a drain on needed healthcare needed by others, in a failing healthcare system.

a reply to: generik

You are brave enough to speak the truth--sadly, I'm sure that there will be some to come along and yell at you for speaking even slightly ill of the nationalized healthcare system.

This same stuff is happening in the UK as well, although you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone making a big deal out of it--but, you know, they'll be the first people to speak ill of the U.S. system.

I'm not saying that the U.S. system is perfect, by any stretch (I'd love to see health insurance become the exception and not the norm), but damn, at least in general our healthcare keeps getting better through the years. Of course, people will complain about it only being that way if you can afford it--well, yeah, but at least that give you SOME control over the situation, whereas with nationalized healthcare, you're often at the mercy of what the government thinks that you should or should not have access to.

I do, however, advocate for "assisted suicide" being legal, only because when you really think about it, one's life is their own to do with what they will. However, when it's sanctioned by the government in a healthcare system that is running low on money, one must consider the possible motives behind that move being not so innocent.

Thanks for the reply.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
Don't hear a peep from the GD dentists tho.

If anyone makes more than they are worth, it's them vampires.

#dentistssuck

Not all dentists suck. My city has a "FREE" emergency dental bus that treats the homeless and those that cannot afford dental treatments. Let's hope this altruism spreads.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

In Canada, if you're willing to spend the money, you can still purchase private insurance and go to private practices. Much like in the US, having money allows you to cut through most of the problems that plague the healthcare system.

That said, Canada's healthcare system is far from perfect. In fact, according to the WHO, it is only marginally better than the one we have in the US. The same goes for the UK. So I don't get why both sides hold these countries up as the end-all-be-all of universal healthcare. Why doesn't the debate ever focus on countries like France and Japan who consistently rank at the top of the list? Hell, it would fairly easy to transition our system to one inspired by the way they do things in the Netherlands.

So why does it always seem like the argument against universal healthcare in the US is that Canada's healthcare system isn't perfect? There are other models and options that have proven they work. So maybe we should start looking at those instead of only focusing on our neighbors to the North.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: SlapMonkey

In Canada, if you're willing to spend the money, you can still purchase private insurance and go to private practices. Much like in the US, having money allows you to cut through most of the problems that plague the healthcare system.

Yeah, same in the UK...and don't forget that there's always the option to fly to the U.S. when you need your medical services in a more timely manner.

That said, Canada's healthcare system is far from perfect. In fact, according to the WHO, it is only marginally better than the one we have in the US. The same goes for the UK. So I don't get why both sides hold these countries up as the end-all-be-all of universal healthcare. Why doesn't the debate ever focus on countries like France and Japan who consistently rank at the top of the list? Hell, it would fairly easy to transition our system to one inspired by the way they do things in the Netherlands.

Because it's fun to lie and say "free healthcare" and hope that the ignorant latch on to that talking point and regurgitate it all over the internet.

So why does it always seem like the argument against universal healthcare in the US is that Canada's healthcare system isn't perfect? There are other models and options that have proven they work. So maybe we should start looking at those instead of only focusing on our neighbors to the North.

Well, one must consider the ineptitude of our government as it pertains to implementation and good stewardship over its programs--I for one am not willing to hand control of my health care over to the government outright, even if doing so does sometimes work in other, much much smaller countries with much less diverse medical issues in general.

I will never argue that a national healthcare system will never work anywhere, but I will adamantly back my claims that it will never work for the United States.

500 is a minuscule number when you consider the number of physicians in Canada. In 2015 there were 82,198. Source

If those 500, and the others, dislike it so much, they should donate their money to whoever they want instead of trying to dictate what happens to the extra money for everyone else.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

So then you wouldn't have a problem with a system like what is found in the Netherlands? Their healthcare system is still primarily operated by the private sector. The primary difference is that the healthcare industry is pretty much required to operate as a non-profit. If you want extra things like a guaranteed private room then you can pay for it. But basic healthcare is offered at cost with the government helping to pick up the slack for those that still can't afford it.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I have a problem with the government telling an industry what they can and cannot do, especially if it surrounds their right to make a profit.

And I hope that you understand that "non-profit" does not equate to an "at-cost" product, it just means that any profits at the end of the year must be put directly back into the company. Also, non-profit companies, at least here in the U.S., exist because the government deems them a company that provides a government-approved purpose, which then provides them tax breaks and special tax status.

I abhor tax breaks, special tax statuses, the government being able to define what an "approved purpose" is for business, and the like. So, yes, in theory and without any deep research (which I'm not going to do) into the Netherlands' healthcare system, I have issues with it.

America already has government medical programs that assist or fully provide for those who cannot afford care. The vast majority of private hospitals exist as and function as non-profit businesses without being forced to by government.