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Radical Islamic terror strikes Utah High School

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posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It’s a kinder, gentler way to get people to do what you want.



That does sound like something people accuse Trump of trying to do




posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: JBurns



When will the left stop forcing children and law abiding citizens to kneel at the feet of terrorists and cowardly killers? When will they stop asking the GOOD PEOPLE of this country to live at the mercy of violent and deadly sociopathic killers?


That's some good hyperbolic rhetoric. Ever considered applying at CNN or Fox News? They'd love your style.



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: Butterfinger

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It’s a kinder, gentler way to get people to do what you want.



That does sound like something people accuse Trump of trying to do


There is NOTHING kind or gentle about Trump.



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: Butterfinger

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It’s a kinder, gentler way to get people to do what you want.



edit on 7-3-2018 by kaylaluv because: Duplicate



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: JBurns

I could not be at more of a loss concerning the amount of people that couldn't comprehend your OP.

That's what we're up against, I guess.



I mean the OP started off with a failed terror plot and ended with "the left loves terrorist".

You can't really have any type of meaningful dialog with that.

Yeah, I suppose that's really what "we are up against".



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: JBurns
So much for gun control, eh?


I fail to see what that has to do with the topic.

Gun freaks need no reason to derail, even their own threads, with gun nonsense.




posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 02:30 PM
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The failure to post "Bomb-free zone" signs is why it happened.
Had they done that surely the kid would have gone on a rampage using an AR 15.



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 02:30 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I think America needs some social engineering when it comes to attitudes about guns. Not that guns should go away, but that guns should not be thought of as cool, bad ass, “patriot” necessities, but more as boring tools in a basket with other boring tools (like hammers). No one posts selfies holding their new hammers, bragging about the titanium head and 100% cedar handle. Wonder why?

I have posted selfies with new tools before, but maybe I'm just crazy like that--one shouldn't make baseless claims in order to try and prove a point.

So, social engineering--and who, exactly, would you say should be doing the engineering? I do truly want an answer to that, but have this caveat: I absolutely abhor the reality that ANYONE thinks that socially engineering a population is a good thing. I tend to advocate more for educating the public without bias and letting them figure it out on their own.

Generally in my experience, those who advocate social engineering/propaganda, are afraid of an intelligent public. I would argue that this was the main driver behind the early religions and the way that the churches kept the general public from reading the sacred documents. I don't think that any body of authority should be advocated to socially engineer anyone.

But again, I'm interested to hear who you think should do the engineering, because if you think that the attempt to condition us into thinking guns are only scary killing machines, then you aren't paying attention. The difference is that most of the general public understands this to be ridiculous, and when the hyperbole is too absurd, you get the opposite reaction than that which was intended.



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 02:45 PM
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a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

Was it too hard to keep up with for some of you? That's a serious question, because I understood it with the first read, getting more and more perplexed with each comment that claimed not to understand the point.

And come on, don't quote something that wasn't said--you tried to attribute things to me that I did not say in another post, and now you're doing it here with quotes concerning the OP. If you want to have a meaningful dialogue, as you imply that you do, then let's first start with proper communication skills and maybe we can take it from there.

Here's the gist of the OP, as I understand it:
    - A child was able to get a homemade bomb onto school property, something that could have caused massive damage to both lives and the structure

    - Utah has relatively lax gun laws, but the kid still found it better/easier to make a bomb (which has the potential for much more damage)

    - The focus of the general Left and anti-gun people is to restrict access to guns and increase no-weapon zones

    - A bomb is a weapon of mass destruction, yet in a no-weapons zone (schools are NOT just no-gun zones) the bomb still made its way onto the property and into a classroom

    - No gun control measures would have stopped this child, or any other children in the U.S., from bombing this school (it was just dumb luck that it didn't explode), yet that is still the rally cry of these people

    - No gun control measures would have stopped this bomb from exploding--again, this was just dumb luck that these kids and adults were able to go home that day

So, you'll have to excuse me if I wonder why people couldn't comprehend all of that, and are still arguing that it's incomprehensible in how the OP was written.

Different reading-comprehension skills, I suppose...and these skill are what we are up against, and that goes for all sides, because this isn't just limited to 'the left;' it's a societal problem.



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 02:57 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That’s why social engineering is such genius. No one feels like they are being compelled. I firmly believe that the improvement of general attitudes towards gays, for example, is due to social engineering. Movies, TV, social media and school programs have been responsible for this positive change. Look at attitude polls from 20-30 years ago compared to polls today.

The only thing is that social engineering is a slow process. It takes years - at least one generation - to fully take hold. But it works.

I think America needs some social engineering when it comes to attitudes about guns. Not that guns should go away, but that guns should not be thought of as cool, bad ass, “patriot” necessities, but more as boring tools in a basket with other boring tools (like hammers). No one posts selfies holding their new hammers, bragging about the titanium head and 100% cedar handle. Wonder why?


Just think, if all that social engineering was done to promote a healthier family instead of accepting alternate lifestyles, we could have less dead kids today. But as you say, that takes time, so might as well just try to grab the gunz or at least whatever you can get, amirite?



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: Jefferton

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: JBurns
So much for gun control, eh?


I fail to see what that has to do with the topic.

Gun freaks need no reason to derail, even their own threads, with gun nonsense.



Amazingly enough, once it was explained slowly, he got the meaning. It's a shame you didn't.



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 03:01 PM
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originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I think America needs some social engineering when it comes to attitudes about guns. Not that guns should go away, but that guns should not be thought of as cool, bad ass, “patriot” necessities, but more as boring tools in a basket with other boring tools (like hammers). No one posts selfies holding their new hammers, bragging about the titanium head and 100% cedar handle. Wonder why?

I have posted selfies with new tools before, but maybe I'm just crazy like that--one shouldn't make baseless claims in order to try and prove a point.


I don’t think it’s a baseless claim. While hammers are used occasionally as tools of death in movies, I don’t think anyone would argue that guns are used a lot more. Hammers are most often thought of as tools for building and repairing things - guns are bad ass, so they are used much more in action movies.


So, social engineering--and who, exactly, would you say should be doing the engineering? I do truly want an answer to that, but have this caveat: I absolutely abhor the reality that ANYONE thinks that socially engineering a population is a good thing. I tend to advocate more for educating the public without bias and letting them figure it out on their own.


Hollywood, public schools, whomever. Social engineering IS a form of education, in my opinion. Using my example of attitudes towards gays, people learned that gay people are just people - they can be smart, they can be funny, they can be kind, they can be heroic - just like any other group of people. Of course there are people who still believe that gays are an abomination, or that they are a bunch of pedophiles, or that they are all mentally ill freaks (all very common misconceptions that most of the population had 30 or 40 years ago), but by and large, those attitudes are in the minority now.

You could also use the example of attitudes towards blacks, especially in the South. I believe laws forced people to treat blacks with equality, but social engineering over the years has changed many, many people’s attitudes towards blacks.


Generally in my experience, those who advocate social engineering/propaganda, are afraid of an intelligent public.


Just the opposite. I am afraid of an unintelligent public.


But again, I'm interested to hear who you think should do the engineering, because if you think that the attempt to condition us into thinking guns are only scary killing machines, then you aren't paying attention. The difference is that most of the general public understands this to be ridiculous, and when the hyperbole is too absurd, you get the opposite reaction than that which was intended.


I believe that America has a gun culture that is different from other 1st world countries. I don’t think this culture is necessarily healthy, which is why we seem to have more mass shootings than any other country. Other countries have mental illness, other countries have guns, other countries have a lot of the same elements we have - the difference is their attitudes towards guns don’t seem to be the same as our attitudes towards guns. I advocate for changing those attitudes - not banning guns.
edit on 7-3-2018 by kaylaluv because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 03:11 PM
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Funny how this isn't a scripted event with crisis actors.... because it fits a narrative

Deny ignorance, lol



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan


I know you knew this...but figure if you are gonna ask a silly question, ill go ahead and answer it.


So more gun control would have affected this incident? Less gun control? I find the extrapolation to this silly.


Now you are just being disingenuous. You know exactly what was meant. You know that the relevance that this act did not involve a gun and in no way does gun control have an affect on these situations, people will always find a way to carry out their bat# crazy plans.



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 04:09 PM
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originally posted by: RomeByFire
Funny how this isn't a scripted event with crisis actors.... because it fits a narrative

Deny ignorance, lol


Because everyone who doesn't think just like you, all think the same thing. KISS.



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 04:26 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

At least we wont see false flag attack theories flying around, or crisis actors and drills. Cuz, ya know... islamists!

Good one.



Thank GOD he was incompetent.


Kinda convenient, but I'm sure they wont see what 'they' did there. Think you've buried it deep enough in partisan Bollocks, well done. Or will they?



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: kaylaluv


As would I be, if it would actually accomplish that goal. With 400,000,000 firearms in circulation, how can you make it harder? Removing any appreciable number of them is simply not a possibility at this point. You give the federal government far too much credit in this respect. So any solution has to based on the fact that an unknown number of firearms (far more than every person in this entire country in fact) are and will continue to be in private hands.

Criminals already acquire their weapons illegally. They purchase them from drug dealers and gangs, they steal them or they far less often use straw purchases.

The only practical solution is majorly hardening schools, all public locations and all private individuals (at their own personal discretion)

Otherwise, criminals/terrorists will continue to acquire/steal/make/3D print their deadly weapons. If you get rid of firearms and explosives, they use automobiles. If you get rid of automobiles, you destroy the economy and they use knives. We could go down this list endlessly

I don't dispute something needs to be done to address how violent young people have become, but would like to again point out that firearm restrictions of any sort are actually fairly new to this country, and children were permitted to own/carry firearms (including to a school, if they so chose) for hundreds of years. Did school shootings happen? Surprisingly, yes, even in the 17/1800's. But far less often

Nothing can be done individually until another fact is also addressed: the total failure and incompetence of the government. They were derelict in all phases of a good number of incidents. They failed to detect the threats, follow up on reports or properly investigate and failed to respond during the active incident. In several cases, individuals were not reported to NICS properly. The government can't enforce existing laws properly (to fatal effect) yet you want to add even more?

Less is more with these people. I will point out again that the best and the brightest aren't generally going into the public sector.

I simply do not believe that access to an inanimate tool is the determining factor in whether or not these youths will carry out deadly attacks in schools and other public venues. All of the sane, rational and law abiding adults that own/carry/use firearms on a daily basis disprove the belief that mere access to firearms results in deadly attacks.

edit on 3/7/2018 by JBurns because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Teach me how to make tables from stumps.



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 07:36 PM
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I am so glad this story played out without death. You cannot outlaw everything that can explode. You cannot hide every formula and technique that can be used as a killing device. Guards, detection devices, security, dogs, armed pastors, teachers, and citizens look at where we are going. Though such measures may need to be in place to protect our children, the real issue is what is going on in the minds of our youth and many adults?
Killing should not be an option in the minds of any age for dealing with the problems of life. Yet it has become an option in the decision making mental process of today's world. The words "I'll kill you for that" was an idle threat of discontent for many ages of our world, but now it has become a real choice in the hearts of the new generations for unpleasant perceptions, real or made up and received as real.
I agree with Rabbi Johnathan, if you remove God from our lives, evil things takes it's place. I agree with Phil Robertson, families are in trouble, thus are children are in trouble. I agree with the bible
2 Timothy 3:2–4. Our society cannot alter the path it is on, till we address how we are influencing the hearts of the generations growing in their youth. For now, identify, help them, imprison those we must but also defend those who are progressing well. Also close the doors and pull up the welcome mat to our country till we have mastered our own family problems.



posted on Mar, 7 2018 @ 09:53 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

That’s why social engineering is such genius. No one feels like they are being compelled. I firmly believe that the improvement of general attitudes towards gays, for example, is due to social engineering. Movies, TV, social media and school programs have been responsible for this positive change. Look at attitude polls from 20-30 years ago compared to polls today.

The only thing is that social engineering is a slow process. It takes years - at least one generation - to fully take hold. But it works.

I think America needs some social engineering when it comes to attitudes about guns. Not that guns should go away, but that guns should not be thought of as cool, bad ass, “patriot” necessities, but more as boring tools in a basket with other boring tools (like hammers). No one posts selfies holding their new hammers, bragging about the titanium head and 100% cedar handle. Wonder why?


So you take away choice, for a preferred outcome. Sorta negates the need for parenting, morality, hell even personal responsibility. Take social engineering to its only logical conclusion and determine if its still a good thing.

Oh, and you've clearly never seen a man excited about his new biscuit joiner, or router table.




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