Free Will or the Illusion of freedom.

Seen from outside it is an illusion.

The spiritual world (divine) has it's own rules when it is allowed to destroy the illusion of free will.

There are beings who live in a 0-1% entangled synchronistic field. And then there are the being who live in a higher entangled synchronistic field.

Being one who gets an intervention can cause new suffering that can be worse than getting no intervention at all.

a reply to: Plotus

Just because the cell is gilded do not mean it is not a cell. Platos cave is also a cell of unawareness.

a reply to: Abednego

More like dark science by those paranormal and supernatural inclined.
Unaware of by the masses.

a reply to: Plotus

When the quantum field that we use to manifest unconsciousness that then becomes consciousness can be manipulated on quantum level thru entanglement then the perceived randomness can in fact be controlled information exchange.

a reply to: Abednego

I don't think it's so black and white. It's kind of like the wave-particle duality in Quantum Mechanics. We are entities with independent volition (free will), existing in various fields of influence. If the magnitude of your will is greater than that of your environment's influence, then your free will becomes more apparent.

a reply to: Abednego

Illusion of free will for sure, there are studies now using FMRI to scan the brain while one makes decisions, the scans show that the decisions are made by the brain BEFORE you consciously make any decision. Ergo you the person have no control as any desicion you think you consciously make was already decided upon by your brain.

www.nature.com...

www.google.co.uk... famp

blogs.scientificamerican.com...

That's just three articles but there are many many more.

Enjoy.

originally posted by: Abednego
Does free will really exist or is just an illusion of freedom?
Do you really think you can do whatever you want? or is just the illusion of freedom of choosing between so many options?

Are we really free to choose our path? or our lives are already defined by a set of choices that, in the end will get us to the same place no matter what we choose?

Yes we are free to choose our paths within the constraints and limitations that are out of our control.

originally posted by: Pazuzu666
a reply to: Abednego

Illusion of free will for sure, there are studies now using FMRI to scan the brain while one makes decisions, the scans show that the decisions are made by the brain BEFORE you consciously make any decision. Ergo you the person have no control as any desicion you think you consciously make was already decided upon by your brain.

www.nature.com...

www.google.co.uk... famp

blogs.scientificamerican.com...

That's just three articles but there are many many more.

Enjoy.

But persons have brains. If persons have brains, it is no one else but themselves making the decision. Unless you think your brain is separate from you?

Free will is not about doing everything you wish. You can be in a prison and still have free will. Free will is making a choice to not carry out behaviors you don't wish to, refusing to follow bad orders, relates to speaking up and if its not safe, sharing with those it is, it doesn't always risk its life. It uses discretion and inner guidance. Some are hero's and speak up in dire circumstances however.

Free will is the aility to think for yourself in all situations, not whether a group of criminals, our political and controlling elites, for example, attempt to program you, hijack your mission and soul evolution, and limit you in their criminal null and void non existent pseudo laws that still have police and courts carrying out as real though they violate the constitution and common sense.

Free will has nothing to do with your situation, and everything to do with not complying with evil.

There are many people who speak up, who don't comply with corruption, who expose it, who help one another, who feed the poor even when the laws have changed in the upside down world, for example. Free will is exhibited when you give the last piece of pie to your brother though you really desired it because otherwise animal instincts would have given it to you who spotted it first. Just a bunch of examples, big and small.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You misunderstand and would be better going and reading about it first, those desicions you the person think you are making were already set in concrete by your brain BEFORE you had made any conscious and knowing desicions, this has been proved now by FMRI for example in one of the studies the scans showed that a particular person would press a certain button BEFORE the person themselves had even decided.

Hence free will is an illusion.

And yes in a lot of ways I do believe the brain is seperate from us, our brain does its best to interprate reality based on known factors other than this the brain has no idea what the hell is going on.

It has no eyes and is locked away in a dark skull, it receives nothing but signals through many different forms of transducers like optical nerves or the workings of the inner ear, but this is not to say that what brain passes back to us is what is actually there in sight, sound, touch, taste or smell and so on many levels I do believe the brain is seperate from us, which is also why it can be so very easy to fool.

There are some great TED talks on these subjects.

originally posted by: Abednego
Does free will really exist or is just an illusion of freedom?
Do you really think you can do whatever you want? or is just the illusion of freedom of choosing between so many options?

Are we really free to choose our path? or our lives are already defined by a set of choices that, in the end will get us to the same place no matter what we choose?

Its both in one way and neither one in another way. Life gives you choices and you decide then live with the consequence of that decision. Regardless of the choice you get to the same death you were sentenced to at birth but the dream goes on. I believe there are some circumstances destined to happen but the things in between are completely up to the One, as it always is.

a reply to: Pazuzu666

No, I know all about that junk.

If my brain is making decisions, that means I am making the decisions. It's not someone else's brain.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

It could also be your higher self guiding you in your current experience.
Which still would be you.

originally posted by: Plotus

originally posted by: jimmyx
look, you got what, 70 odd years on this world?....you have a brain, so get off your ass and make your own world, don't let others try and define the way your going to live, or the way you should feel.....be confident in your own intelligence.

Sound advice

thanks plotus, the amount of fear and paranoia propagated on this site has turned into a one giant SCHADENFREUDE competition....people buy into this crap,

a reply to: Abednego

It's not about the destination, that is already determined. It's about the journey, anything can happen.

a reply to: Abednego

A) Those other decisions could have been just as futile..
b) some one who is born poor cannot choose to be wealthy.

C) that is my whole point. We are a slave to our options and any choice is really just our best option.

So it is no choice at all.

We are all a victim of our options and genetics..

If you have the choice to stay at your job, or your family starve. Is that really a choice???

I personally do not think so.

So I guess we've concluded.. : Freewill is only adaptation to surroundings?

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope

originally posted by: Pazuzu666
a reply to: Abednego

Illusion of free will for sure, there are studies now using FMRI to scan the brain while one makes decisions, the scans show that the decisions are made by the brain BEFORE you consciously make any decision. Ergo you the person have no control as any desicion you think you consciously make was already decided upon by your brain.

www.nature.com...

www.google.co.uk... famp

blogs.scientificamerican.com...

That's just three articles but there are many many more.

Enjoy.

But persons have brains. If persons have brains, it is no one else but themselves making the decision. Unless you think your brain is separate from you?

Is a confusing topic, how the brain works.
Ancient people ( alchemists to be more specific ), knew the human body has 21 senses, not only the traditional 5. So based on that the brain unconsciously is making decisions based on those other senses before the 5 we know takes on. It is that we just do not have the ability to feel them. So those sense are (I think) better at discerning the best choice.
And of course there are ways to connect again with those senses.

Thanks everyone for leaving your comments. I really enjoyed the debate. So keep commenting if more on the subject come to your minds.

For now a few quotes somewhat related-
From the movie The Matrix Reloaded:
The Architect: As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly ninety-nine percent of the test subjects accepted the program provided they were given a choice - even if they were only aware of it at a near-unconscious level. While this solution worked, it was fundamentally flawed, creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that, if left unchecked, might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those who refused the program, while a minority, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
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The Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.
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And this one from Isaac Bashevis Singer:
We have to believe in free will, we have no choice.

originally posted by: Plotus
Well I can go down town and get a couple Porterhouses and grill them when I get home. I have decent tap water 24/7 and can shower whenever it pleases me. I can drive my SUV any time I want, anywhere I want. I can choose any religion I have a mind to, or abstain from that as well.

I have the best ability to have any education in the world. I can visit with most any friend or relative I want.
If that's not freedom..... well then freedom just becomes a word.

Or as Janis Joplin noted, freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.