Detailed Parkland Shooting Timeline (from various sources)

a reply to: CthulhuMythos

So if he shot them before going in, then the police /campus security would have been alerted before he even got to the stairwell...

Maybe that's exactly what happened. Maybe that's why the School Resource Officer wasn't immediately available. Maybe the initial reports that he was off-campus attending to something which "happened" were true. But maybe it wasn't Cruz who shot them. Maybe someone else did just before Cruz arrived as a distraction to get Cruz onto campus... and delay the response to the shooting as long as possible.

They only needed a few minutes, eh?

a reply to: Boadicea

Backspatter is usually seen in contact GSWs. Shooting down a hallway isn’t likely to produce it.

a reply to: CthulhuMythos

I notice they say in the text that the uber driver dropped him off carrying a soft black rifle case. Interesting how the facts are being massaged into the desired story and to associate him with the rifle. The original description was he had a black duffle bag and a back pack.

Massaging the facts... that's an excellent way to put it. That's exactly what they're doing. I'm pretty sure that the facts that we're being told are technically true... and it's what is being alluded to and suggested and implied and "best guessed" that is suspicious. The ultimate all-over-massage.

What they didn't say was where did the uber driver drop him off? Was it at the main entrance, which would be a natural drop off point for someone going to the school, or was it at the car park round at the building where the shooting was? Looks a reasonable walk from the main entrance to the other building. Wondering how that would fit into the timeline.

If anyone has stated that officially, I haven't seen it. I have only seen one report that specifically showed in a map/diagram that he was dropped off at the east side entrance, about mid-block. I don't know if that was known to be true, or if it was assumed as the "only" entrance though. I have also seen suggestions that he was dropped off in on the north side of the campus by the parking lot between the building and the road there. According to the Sheriff's timeline, it took Cruz about 2 minutes to get to the building after being dropped off. I cannot find anything other than the written report of the "Campus Monitor" seeing him enter campus and notifying his "colleague." I know the Campus Monitor is not the School Resource Officer. The "colleague" might be though.

Have you heard if the security team on campus had walkie-talkies or anything to communicate across campus? I'm wondering how the Campus Monitor would have notified anyone.

I don't think they put in when/where he set off the fire alarm.

Nope, that hasn't been reported. I have looked for it with every possible keyword I could think of. At this point, they may be walking it back. The alarm went off -- at some point. Even witness statements seem to disagree as to when, with some saying the fire alarm came first and then the shooting, and others saying the shooting came first and then the alarm... but maybe they're talking about the "Code Red" alarm that went out after both the fire alarm and the gunfire started. It's also now being suggested that the smoke from the gunfire set off the fire alarm. It's all very confusing.

I am wondering though if perhaps the first alarm was more like a smoke detector, going off only in the Freshman Bldg as a result of the gunfire, with the "Code Red" alarm going off all across campus. That might explain the discrepancies in witness statements.

Incidentally, the earliest reports say that the shooting only lasted three minutes, then four minutes... now we're up to six minutes. Like Vegas, the official story keeps changing.

And finally, at the end of the text, they state that the sheriff doesn't know at which point in the timeline the people outside the building got shot, so basically just forget about that time line anomaly, just remember the graphic that explains it all and gloss over the bits that don't add up.

There was also a reported gunshot victim on the football field at the same time Cruz was entering campus, and at some point a victim was reported to the west of the high school by the middle school. I don't know if these are among the previous victims reported off-campus, or if these are additional victims, or what...

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: CthulhuMythos

So if he shot them before going in, then the police /campus security would have been alerted before he even got to the stairwell...

Maybe that's exactly what happened. Maybe that's why the School Resource Officer wasn't immediately available. Maybe the initial reports that he was off-campus attending to something which "happened" were true. But maybe it wasn't Cruz who shot them. Maybe someone else did just before Cruz arrived as a distraction to get Cruz onto campus... and delay the response to the shooting as long as possible.

They only needed a few minutes, eh?

I hadn't read that the resource officer had been attending something elsewhere. The idea that there was more than one shooter was certainly reported by several witnesses early on, another fact that has been massaged quietly away from the main story line, and your idea is very plausible and fits the time line, especially as it was reported that the person in the street was shot as he fled. This may not be a lie, as he was supposed to have fled out the back of the school toward the shops, away from that street, and as he fled, the other shooter could have shot a witness who saw them escaping, so technically they were shot while Cruz fled, just not in the way it was implied that it was Cruz who did that shot. Could this be the chink in the armour of the official story of it being a lone gunman?

a reply to: Boadicea
I don't know if they had walkie talkies or not, but that would be a reasonable assumption.

Regarding the timing of the fire alarm, where were the majority of the people shot, was it in the corridors or in the classrooms? If it was in the classrooms, then it would make sense the alarm was set off after the main shooting happened, maybe as a distraction for his escape. If it was set off first, wouldn't there be more witnesses seeing him shooting as there would have been loads of kids milling about to evacuate during the fire alarm, and a lot of people shot in the corridors, before they all ran back into the classrooms. Maybe the fire alarm was set off after he did the first floor? It is all very confusing.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Boadicea

Backspatter is usually seen in contact GSWs. Shooting down a hallway isn’t likely to produce it.

Fair enough... but at least one victim would seem to fit that criteria... and more than one shot in very close contact with just one victim. I haven't checked out enough of the victim's details to say how many others. But I know there's at least one. And given the descriptions of pools of blood everywhere, at the very least, the shooter's shoes should have been dripping with blood. Even if he avoided blood splatter, there's no way he avoided the bloody floors.

a reply to: Boadicea

2:22 pm: Cruz sets off fire alarm (???) and begins shooting.

Why are there question marks at this entry ? when a fire alarm is pulled the "exact" time is registered by the fire department.

Oh, and did anyone ever see a fire truck anywhere in any footage of the scene ? I will admit, I have not followed this story as closely as I may have been able to do; but, I have not noticed a fire truck anywhere as yet.

And with the police station fairly close by, didn't the F B I show up ahead of them? How many other shootings have the FBI shown up at so soon ? And I heard something about the Secret Service being on scene. What's with all this ?


I watch this a little earlier and thought it might provoke more thoughts on the matter.

12160.info...

a reply to: Boadicea

but at least one victim would seem to fit that criteria... and more than one shot in very close contact with just one victim.

Right, but I'm not saying every contact GSW produces backspatter. That's why people can make an entire career out of studying blood spatter: it's a literal science, complete with mathematical formulas out the wazoo, to determine what happened and how it happened.

And given the descriptions of pools of blood everywhere, at the very least, the shooter's shoes should have been dripping with blood. Even if he avoided blood splatter, there's no way he avoided the bloody floors.

They've also described hallways as "blood covered." I think we need to understand that there's some hyperbole being used here, unless we're going to go with the description that there were multiple hallways literally covered with blood.

I don't doubt that there were puddles of blood and trails of blood and blood sprays and so on, but I don't think a lack of blood on the shooter is a smoking gun of any sort, otherwise every murder scene would be as simple as following bloody footprints and finding a person with blood on their clothes. It happens, but it's not the majority by any means.

a reply to: CthulhuMythos

I hadn't read that the resource officer had been attending something elsewhere.

I looked it up again, just to be sure I wasn't mis-remembering. This is the first report that I read about the location of the SRO:

The only person trained and armed to fight back against an assailant at Stoneman Douglas is its one school resource officer, a Broward Sheriff’s deputy funded by the city of Parkland. But Maxwell said she doesn’t think he was on campus when the shooting happened.

“I have been told by a couple of sources that the SRO was either called off campus responding to something happening or it could have been his day off,” she said. “They are stretched very thin.”

Florida school shooting: How was killer able to get around school security?

Now that I read it again, it's even more significant in that it reads in the present tense -- "happening" -- rather than past tense -- "happened". That sounds even more like it could be a deliberate distraction, eh?

The idea that there was more than one shooter was certainly reported by several witnesses early on, another fact that has been massaged quietly away from the main story line...

Indeed. Why haven't there been follow-up interviews with the many witnesses who claimed to see Cruz and/or the shooter(s)? Because all the media attention is on Hogg and his media darlings and the political circus they're creating. I have no doubt that the accusations of being crisis actors was deliberately planted and inflamed for two purposes: 1) To distract from the multiple shooters witnesses/survivors; and 2) To create disinfo which is quickly and easily debunked in order to discredit all further criticism -- especially because it's a double whammy to do so... they're kids and they're victims. And rightfully so. These kids are being manipulated and exploited by the adults and it's absolutely shameful.

...and your idea is very plausible and fits the time line, especially as it was reported that the person in the street was shot as he fled. This may not be a lie, as he was supposed to have fled out the back of the school toward the shops, away from that street, and as he fled, the other shooter could have shot a witness who saw them escaping, so technically they were shot while Cruz fled, just not in the way it was implied that it was Cruz who did that shot.

Exactly. Massaging those facts... All they have to say is "the shooter" and it's assumed to be Cruz... just don't mention that it was in the opposite direction of where Cruz fled...

And for the one fleeing, they've already killed Heaven only knows many, what's one more to cover your tracks??? Just don't remind folks that Cruz already abandoned his weapon on the third floor so it couldn't have been him.

Could this be the chink in the armour of the official story of it being a lone gunman?

I hope it's one of them anyway!

originally posted by: CthulhuMythos
a reply to: Boadicea
Regarding the timing of the fire alarm, where were the majority of the people shot, was it in the corridors or in the classrooms?

On the first floor, it would seem the majority were shot inside the classrooms, but at least three were shot in the halls (according to a teacher's statement -- they were her students). On the second floor, I believe the one victim was in the hall. On the third floor, I haven't nailed it down yet. But I'm thinking it's both in the hall and in the classes.

If it was in the classrooms, then it would make sense the alarm was set off after the main shooting happened, maybe as a distraction for his escape. If it was set off first, wouldn't there be more witnesses seeing him shooting as there would have been loads of kids milling about to evacuate during the fire alarm, and a lot of people shot in the corridors, before they all ran back into the classrooms. Maybe the fire alarm was set off after he did the first floor? It is all very confusing.

I'm having trouble with that as well. I have a theory forming... but I need to dig a little more. I want to focus on the survivor statements who actually claim to have seen Cruz and/or "the" shooter, then try to fit their statements into the timeline as we know it, in terms of when/if/in what order they heard the fire alarm, gunfire and Code Red alarm, as well as where they were at the time.

I'm getting a real strong feeling that there was more going on in the stairwells than we know. I've seen one diagram which indicated the stairwells are enclosed.... What if the security cameras are focused on the halls and NOT in the stairwells? What if there is no way for anyone to know what was going on in the stairwells? What if there were two more shooters and one went to the third floor and one went to the first floor, Cruz set the alarm, and they did the dirty deed while Cruz slipped out with the students? (Hence the minimal shooting on the second floor...)

That's where my mind is going right now...

a reply to: Shamrock6

Well... okay... I'll put it in the "maybe/maybe not" file. It still seems very unlikely to me that the shooter would be blood-free, but I also know that your opinion is based on experience and therefore an informed opinion, and mine's not. So I'll keep this in mind and try to keep myself intellectually honest... while still considering other possibilities.

And thanks for disagreeing so politely. You -- and your input -- are much appreciated!

originally posted by: tinymind
a reply to: Boadicea

2:22 pm: Cruz sets off fire alarm (???) and begins shooting.

Why are there question marks at this entry ? when a fire alarm is pulled the "exact" time is registered by the fire department.

Good question. Obviously because the authorities who have that information refuse to release it... but why???

Oh, and did anyone ever see a fire truck anywhere in any footage of the scene ? I will admit, I have not followed this story as closely as I may have been able to do; but, I have not noticed a fire truck anywhere as yet.

There were fire trucks there -- but to the best of my knowledge, they were kept off campus and never allowed near the building. Victims were brought to them. That seems odd to me, and maybe I have that wrong, but that's what I read. Maybe some victims were brought outside to EMTS, and some EMTs went to the victims. I don't know for sure.

And with the police station fairly close by, didn't the F B I show up ahead of them? How many other shootings have the FBI shown up at so soon ?

If I remember correctly, yes, the FBI showed up about the same time as Coral Police. There may have already been some officers on campus before then. But we're talking about a very small time span here. Less than 30 minutes after the shooting.

And I heard something about the Secret Service being on scene. What's with all this ?

I have no idea what that's about. I have never heard of the Secret Service being involved with any school anywhere at all... unless the President is visiting said school. And even then, the concern of the Secret Service is the security of the President, not the students. That makes no sense to me.

I watch this a little earlier and thought it might provoke more thoughts on the matter.

12160.info...

Thank you -- I can't watch now, but I'll try to watch later.

originally posted by: Boadicea

It's bugging me too. Beyond the sweat factor, it's difficult to believe that scrawny kid could have lugged in the weapon, ammo and tactical gear, then assembled and loaded the weapon, then donned the body armor, then conducted the rampage, then reloaded his weapon, then removed all his tactical gear, and run out with other students (who were not for some reason sheltering in their classroom), all in about six minutes.

Was this even physically possible?

Basic training in the military was full of scrawny-looking guys who, within two months of training, finished a 10-mile ruck march after a full day of intense marching and training with an (at least) 35-lb ruck sack on their back, full "battle rattle," and carrying a 7-lb M16A2 rifle in their hands.

Yes, this was physically possible for Cruz to do this, without a doubt. One should never underestimate someone's strength just by their visible size (When I weighed 135lbs I was bench pressing 275-lb one-rep maxes way back in high school, eventually making it in to the 300-lb club while I was in the military and weighed about 160...and I'm only 5'6" tall. I no longer lift like that, though)

ETA: Also, thanks for the timeline

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Thank you -- so I guess it was physically possible. And I guess I should have known that, or at least not ruled it out. My hubby isn't a big guy either, but he's strong as an ox! Muscles all kinds of stuff that I can't even budge. And that reminds me, I need him to help me move a log in the back... and of course by "help me" I mean I'll supervise

So, okay, I can't rule that out.

a reply to: Boadicea

Ah, so that same type of "help" that my wife will give me while I'm building our deck outback

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Boadicea

Ah, so that same type of "help" that my wife will give me while I'm building our deck outback

Exactly! It's the first thing we're taught at Wifey School... uh oh... I hope I haven't said too much

a reply to: Boadicea

Thanks for the info and explanations. It seems I always have more questions than answers, and I never like things to get "too convienent", if you know what I mean.
I did see the emergency trucks for the EMTs but not fire trucks. Around here, they are the first to pull up and are never stopped short of a scene. Pulling a fire alarm only gets these guys moving, they have a hard time stopping.
Sounds bad, to me, that they were kept "off campus". Who knew what was happening before they were on the scene and who stopped them.

a reply to: tinymind

It is quite confusing. I think because we only have the bare minimum of facts... and when that happens, rumors and gossip and innuendoes fill the void. It shouldn't be this way. Sunshine is the best disinfectant. Which is exactly why Florida has their "Sunshine" laws for transparency. Maybe the Sheriff is just trying to cover his sorry butt from his own incompetence and worse. I don't know.

But that lack of transparency is the biggest red flag of all here.

a reply to: tinymind

If PD is already on scene, which it appears they were, and it's an active hot zone then the FD isn't going to be allowed to go wander around buildings looking for a fire to put out.

EMTs and Paramedics will team up with LEOs to perform tactical rescues, but that's it. Firefighters are going to be stopped, whether a pull station has been activated or not.

a reply to: Boadicea

Do you have any idea the order of the floors where he was shooting?

Did he start on floor one, go to two, and then three?

The twin girls, Meghan and MacKenzie Hill, make it sound like he was on two before he went to one. Also, there was this weirdness in their story:

“I love you,” Meghan wrote in text messages that Mackenzie would later delete, to erase all memories of the nightmare. “Please be safe.”

Link

Why delete text messages to "erase all memories of the nightmare," but then go on Hannity to 'revisit the nightmare' and talk to several other news outlet to 'remember and recall the nightmare?'


ETA: BTW, those text messages would give a precise timeline of when 'the shooter' was on the first and second floors.