Debunking Flat Earth and the Hollow Earth

a reply to: turbonium1

And there you go, cherry-picking responses yet again. A plane is not flying over curvature. It's always flying over level ground, as it measures it. Cumulatively there's a curve, but it's always seeking to maintain a constant altitude.
You either cannot grasp this or you are trolling us all.
I now know which one.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

trees would be huge owing to the higher atmospheric pressure

a reply to: turbonium1

i will repeat - it is not anger - its a clinical diagnosis

i actually find it rather amusing

but hey - now your " argument " has lost all internal consistency too - brilliant

what is truely hard to understand is your insistence on an untennable position

this has been explained to you now - every way possible - you are ever so dishonest or so stupid - that any further dialogue is pointless

a reply to: Hyperboles
Oh OK, but maybe they would be smaller due to the more cramped space of a cave system, and you know there tends to be less sunlight underground.

But hey if there is a hollow earth, who knows whats down there, I a guessing a whole lot of rocks and dirt and such would be a predominant theme. But only one way to find out right?

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

the problem with inner // hollow earth claims is :

there are several variations - all of which are mutually exclusive at some level

and none of them address ATS member " hyperboles " OP observation about atmospheric pressure .

heres my variation on hyperboles argument :

humans - have evolved to breath atmospheric air [ 20% O2 , 79% N3 - trace CO2 and others ] at STP [ standard temperature and pressure ] with a small envelope each way

now over a century of diving experience - has given us a quite solid understanding of the physiology of operating at depth [ increased pressure ]

and 2 key issues`are :

1 - nitrogen narcossis

2 - oxygen toxicity

both affect different individuals at different depths

but in water -30m is the std guidleine depth for concern - and currently no regulatory // govening body - allows air breathing systems at -60m or greater

how does this affect the hollow // inner eath claim ??

well - at just -420km humans [ from the surface ] would be incapable of unassisted operation

and likewise - any organism adaped to survive naturally in that environment - would be incapable of operation at the earths surface [ 0m ASL ]

ignoring silly convoluted " explainations " - that order on " magic " - no hollow // inner earth claim succesffully adresses the atmospheric pressure issues hyperboles raises

Hello. I’m a 35-year commercial pilot and flight instructor.

All aircraft, whether by the hand of the pilot or by the autopilot, must continuously adjust configuration to maintain a constant altitude. This is necessary because the aircraft trims for level based exclusively on atmospheric conditions*, and these conditions change continuously due to pressure gradients, temperature variances, humidity, and other factors which are only partly influenced by the curvature of the Earth. In addition, burning off fuel, weight shifts and other incidental actions require flight path adjustment too. In fact, if an aircraft is established at a level altitude, and thereafter flown without any adjustment to its configuration (“hands off”), then as it encounters changes in the atmosphere it will simply hunt for higher or lower altitudes—specifically, the ones matching the atmospheric conditions for which it has been trimmed.

Also, establishing and/or maintaining altitude is more than just a matter of the aircraft’s pitch. It can be done by moderating in combination the power, weight distribution, and aerodynamic configuration. For example, it’s possible to fly level over a wide range of pitch attitudes, and to even achieve a descent by pitching up, or a climb by pitching down. You can start a climb in a Piper Cherokee simply by opening the little six-inch plexiglass window at the pilot's shoulder.

In simpler terms, there are five important points to make: (1) flight path is not exclusively dependent upon pitch angle, which is indicated in the instrument called the “attitude indicator”; (2) pilots do not maintain altitude by reading the attitude indicator anyway, but by reading the altimeter(s); (3) the curvature of the Earth requires adjustment to a flight path only to the degree that it influences atmospheric conditions, not by mere virtue of its shape; (4) many other factors also affect atmospheric conditions; (5) to maintain a constant altitude, an aircraft must continuously adjust one or more of the following: pitch, power, weight distribution and aerodynamic configuration (flaps, slats, spoilers, etc.) On long flights this is burdensome, and explains the usefulness of an autopilot.

Lastly, the attitude indicator is not for altitude control, but to maintain attitude in IMC (instrument meteorological conditions)—in other words, to keep the craft upright when the visual horizon is lost. It does not rotate upward as an aircraft follows the curve of the Earth, because it's built with a self-erecting mechanism to align its gyroscopic axis with the gravitational vector, meaning pointed at the Earth’s center.

*Gravity variation is also a factor, but is negligible at the altitudes that aircraft fly.

Still they must fight..

Flat earth, round earth? It's all faulty science anyway.

Provenance?

You are not whence it began, surely.

Let go

Stop being a dick ffs

jeez lol

Much love x

a reply to: ignorant_ape
Well depends on which hollow earth theory you go by the scientific one were you would not survive underground for long, or the one were there is another mini sun underground.

As you can see it all varies, and just like flat earth theory, how many of you have been on the moon to look down? And how many of you have been 50 miles underground in these supposed hollow earth caverns? The answer is none.

Either way it matters not.

a reply to: Rollie83

Lol so you are a flat earther.
read the op and the entire thread. its for still air flight

a reply to: Hyperboles

What...? No! My post was a direct refutation of the claim that a stable reading on an aircraft's attitude indicator proves the flat Earth hypothesis, when in fact it proves the opposite--that the Earth is a sphere. I specifically responded to mytyquin's post of 3/1/18 at 3:09 AM, but instead of hitting the "reply" button I tagged my post onto the end of the thread.

At any rate, perhaps my language was too technical to be clear to the non-technically minded, and too jargon-loaded for the non-pilot, which is understandable because I'm accustomed to instructing flight students who are already well past any doubts about the earth's shape. So I'll just re-state for the record: the flat-Earth hypothesis is not only wrong, but not even suggested by aircraft instruments and the way aircraft are flown in the real world. The flat-Earther claims to the contrary are indescribably silly.

I'm curious...what do you mean by "its for still air flight?"

a reply to: turbonium1

turbonium1, you’re incorrect.

The VSI directly reads only atmospheric pressure changes, and therefore it indicates ascent/descent only indirectly. Furthermore, the instrument neither knows nor cares about the shape of the Earth below, or even the Earth's relative position. (The VSI works fine when an aircraft is inverted.) In aeronautical terminology, the “descent” that you describe—flying “around the curvature” at a constant altitude—is actually LEVEL flight, and if the atmospheric pressure remains constant throughout such a flight path, the VSI will not indicate a descent.

Incidentally, a VSI can give a false indication when encountering turbulence or during abrupt maneuvers. Phantom readings are common, if very fleeting, and help to explain why the VSI is not primary for altitude—the altimeter is. The VSI is useful for climb-out and approach profiles, high-performance maneuvers, and in partial-panel situations. It’s especially important for glider pilots who depend upon the identification of updrafts and downdrafts to protect their hides.

a reply to: Rollie83

welcome to ATS - lets see what our resident flat earthers response to having another pilot in a flat earth thread is

and regards you earlier post - yup it was a bit verbose - and quite dry

a reply to: turbonium1

turbonium1, for Pete's sake, you’re confusing level with flat. In aeronautical terminology, flying level means maintaining constant altitude in relation to a regular datum, typically MSL – mean sea level. (Not AGL – above ground level) An aeronautical ascent or descent requires deviation from an altitude, which is obviously not the case of an aircraft flying around a globe at a constant altitude. The VSI measures only pressure changes, and the instrument neither knows nor cares whether the Earth is falling away from it, or rising up to it, or even whether the Earth is there at all.

By the way, “level” differs from “flat” in basic physics too, though some are fooled into believing otherwise because at the small scale of normal human endeavors, the Earth’s curvature makes for an indiscernible difference. For the little stuff, level and flat appear the same. No carpenter accounts for it to level a floor, and couldn’t possibly perform to such a high precision anyway. But larger events, such as firing long-range projectiles, absolutely must take curvature into consideration.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

You're right, and thanks for the constructive criticism. Wordiness has been a life-long problem for me.

a reply to: Rollie83


Welcome to the "Banging Your Head Against a Brick Wall Club"!

Will be interesting to see if our FE/Moon Landings Faked friend will respond.

a reply to: Rollie83

Ive been a pilot and a flight instructor and am fairly technical being an engineer. still air meaning no updrafts or downdrafts