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Satanic Temple sues Arizona city to lead city council prayer

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posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 06:40 PM
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"Once you open a public forum to religion, you can't then decide which ones you like best to represent in that public forum," said the temple's attorney, Stuart de Haan.


Satanic Temple sues Arizona city to lead city council prayer

Should Freedom of Religion be extended to this Satanic Temple? If members of this Temple want to say a prayer, peacefully, what right do we have to stop them?


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.



Controversy rages in the United States between those who wish to restrict government involvement with religious institutions and remove religious references from government institutions and property, and those who wish to loosen such prohibitions. Advocates for stronger separation of church and state emphasize the plurality of faiths and non-faiths in the country, and what they see as broad guarantees of the federal Constitution.



“Religious Liberty shall be interpreted to include freedom to worship according to conscience and to bring up children in the faith of their parents; freedom for the individual to change his religion; freedom to preach, educate, publish and carry on missionary activities; and freedom to organize with others, and to acquire and hold property, for these purposes.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now, as an ex-Catholic, who still prays to God, I have no issue with people who think praying to an "imaginary" being is silly. That's their right not to believe and I shouldn't force my beliefs on anyone. Even though I feel Satan is the embodiment of evil, I can't deny others from practicing Satanism, as long as they aren't harming anyone, or sacrificing animals (I'm a dog lover...what can I say?)

"The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. ... Reason and free enquiry are the only effectual agents against error." -Thomas Jefferson

A spokesperson from Scottsdale, Arizonia, says the Temple "did not have close ties with Scottsdale" and therefore can't lead a prayer at a City Council meeting. What if there are members of this Temple who reside in Scottsdale? Shouldn't they have a right to have a prayer recited? This specific Satanic Temple, claim they don't "worship Satan or any deities" and feel they are being discriminated against. They applied over the phone to say a prayer at a City Council meeting and wasn't told that they had to have community ties.


According to the lawsuit filed this week in federal district court in Arizona, the Satanic Temple wasn't asked about community ties when it applied by phone to give the prayer. The group is asking a judge to find the city in violation of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment right to free speech and to prevent the city from denying prayer opportunities to non-Christian religious groups.

www.foxnews.com...


It has sought to start after-school Satan programs in protest of what it says is the erosion of the separation of church and state, install statues of Satan outside state capitols to counter Ten Commandments monuments and give opening prayers at City Council meetings.

www.foxnews.com...

I must confess, as an Air Force "brat," I had a hard time watching wealthy football players kneeling for The National Anthem. I can't imagine what I would think, if I saw a statue of Satan staring at me in front of a state capitol.





posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: shawmanfromny




Should Freedom of Religion be extended to this Satanic Temple?


Duh.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 06:58 PM
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Be nice to the scary guy with a goat head.
He doesn't demand your worship.
He appears to be teaching children how to count.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 07:01 PM
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Accept all religions or accept none, the state cannot endorse one over the other.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 07:06 PM
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Well, well ... lookee what happens when religion is foisted upon the public ... certain religions might take advantage of it and not be palatable. I find it rather funny, myself.

I remember a time, not so long ago, when people weren't so darnably dumb and shortsighted.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 07:06 PM
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Well, I haven't heard of any Satanist group recite a prayer in front of a city council meeting in the United States....have you? So I guess there are issues with "Satanists", which is the reason for my post.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: skunkape23

"Bring before me two animals for sacrifice, my children." Only a JOKE...couldn't resist.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 07:10 PM
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Praise Bob.
Kill Bob.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 07:18 PM
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The Satanic Temple is a national group with chapters in several states, including Arizona, that doesn't worship Satan or any deities.


National group, not local and not a church. Why would they want to provide a prayer? This is just more nonsense from attention seekers.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 07:30 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555

The Satanic Temple is a national group with chapters in several states, including Arizona, that doesn't worship Satan or any deities.


National group, not local and not a church. Why would they want to provide a prayer? This is just more nonsense from attention seekers.


But that was the entire raison d'être for this groups formation and existence. It was a reaction to W's creation of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. They purposely set themselves up to fall under the auspices of a religious entity so that they could use their First Amendment rights/protections to provide a window to the hypocrisy of other religious organizations.

And while it is a nation wide group, so are the Lutheran or Catholic churches and like other organized religious entities, they have local chapters (or congregations if you prefer).

It may be an eye grabbing and attention seeking methodology,but it certainly gets the point across... That the First Amendment prohibits government from favoring one religion or sect over any or all others and if a government agency chooses to allow one faith or subset of thst faith to engage in their worship practices at the beginning of public meetings, then they must accommodate all faiths.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 08:34 PM
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Friend of the Devil is a Friend of Mine.

edit on 27-2-2018 by skunkape23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 08:35 PM
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a reply to: peter vlar

To hell with Satan.

And yes, this organization is doing exactly his bidding.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 08:39 PM
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originally posted by: shawmanfromny
Well, I haven't heard of any Satanist group recite a prayer in front of a city council meeting in the United States....have you? So I guess there are issues with "Satanists", which is the reason for my post.


If you use the google on the internets, you could probably hear tell of one ot two. Here is one

www.nbc11news.com...



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: skunkape23
Spent the night in Utah in a cave up in the hills



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: peter vlar

OK, that has nothing to do with the point that these people are not a part of that local community. They have no standing to even sue.

It also makes them not a religion at all, but instead a political group since they have no faith component. Just using that name does not make them a religion.



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof


It does not say political groups are protected in that way and this group is not a religion.

I have no issue with people opposed to prayer at government functions and it's best for all if it does not happen. This group however is not honest.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 08:54 PM
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originally posted by: Joefoster
a reply to: skunkape23
Spent the night in Utah in a cave up in the hills
I have, too.
Hiking trip gone bad.
Damn near died.
Had the best drink of water I've had in my life when I made back to civilization.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 09:22 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: peter vlar

OK, that has nothing to do with the point that these people are not a part of that local community. They have no standing to even sue.

It also makes them not a religion at all, but instead a political group since they have no faith component. Just using that name does not make them a religion.



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof


It does not say political groups are protected in that way and this group is not a religion.

I have no issue with people opposed to prayer at government functions and it's best for all if it does not happen. This group however is not honest.


The Church of Scientology...
What is their faith component?
Why do they receive tax exempt status?



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 09:28 PM
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a reply to: the owlbear

I don't think they should have that status. How they go from a con game by a well known confidence person to a religion is beyond me. Ask the IRS?



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: peter vlar

OK, that has nothing to do with the point that these people are not a part of that local community. They have no standing to even sue.


I don't know if they have a chapter that is a part of that community or not. If they do, or if they have members of the "church" that live there then would they not have a right to see their grievances addressed?


It also makes them not a religion at all, but instead a political group since they have no faith component. Just using that name does not make them a religion.


Oh I don't disagree with you. It is, in their own words, an updated version of LaVeyan Satanism which also, despite legally being a Church with NPO status, is an agnostic/atheistic philosophy and not a religion in the normal connotation if they don't believe in or pray to any god or gods.




It does not say political groups are protected in that way and this group is not a religion.


Again, I don't disagree with you in principle. However, under Federal Law and the IRS, they are an organized church with NPO status. They did the bare minimum of what they had to, to gain recognition under color of the law, as a church. I know and you know it's just a long con. But legally, they are a religion.


I have no issue with people opposed to prayer at government functions and it's best for all if it does not happen. This group however is not honest.


You aren't getting any argument from me here. My previous post was just to give a little background on and insight into what their goals and motivations were. You're spot on though that they're just a political group masquerading as a church.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: peter vlar

Yeah, I see it only took them 10 days to get approved by the IRS. Makes me wonder what those IRS folks are up to




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