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NRA launches effort to defeat socialism

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posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 03:47 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: ScepticScot




The phrase in the OP 'Socialist Agenda'. Seems pretty clear he is referring to policies.

Tying to use the term socialist as a bogey man to describe vaguely left wing politicians, then claiming any left wing policies people might support isn't socialist is a tad hypocritical.


I never made such a claim, so your appeal to hypocrisy, like the idea of "socialist policies", is utter nonsense.


It simple enough to understand. Either the policies are socialist or not. If its not then OP is incorrect.




posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 03:49 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: enlightenedservant

You didn't refute anything.

Because socialists don't believe in individual or property rights.

That is right wing ideology.


That's a lie. Communism generally doesn't believe in property rights, but socialism generally does. All you have to do is look at the countries that have a lot of socialist policies to see whether your ideas are true or not, like Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Norway and Ireland. Do they have any individual rights? Do they have property rights? Or are you just making up your claims? Even China has property rights as its consumerism-driven middle class of more than 400 million people can attest to.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot




It simple enough to understand. Either the policies are socialist or not. If its not then OP is incorrect.


Apparently it isn't simple enough to understand. If the politicians are not socialist or do not have a socialist agenda, then the OP is wrong.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 03:54 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: ScepticScot




It simple enough to understand. Either the policies are socialist or not. If its not then OP is incorrect.


Apparently it isn't simple enough to understand. If the politicians are not socialist or do not have a socialist agenda, then the OP is wrong.


So they are socialists without a socialist agenda.

Seriously the mental gymnastics here is impressive.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 03:55 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot




So they are socialists without a socialist agenda.

Seriously the mental gymnastics here is impressive.


Never said that. You must be on some socialist logic.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: amazing

Thats' what the GD definition says.



socialism [soh-shuh-liz-uh m] Spell Syllables Examples Word Origin See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com noun 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. 2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. 3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.


www.dictionary.com...

But who cares right?


If you take a deeper dive into the history of socialism, you'll see that there isn't one garden variety version of it. It's fairly complex and nuanced in terms of how it's been implemented and adopted.

Amazing is correct to point out that many Americans are indeed thinking about the social democracies of the Nordic countries, where the concept of private property is still very much intact.
edit on 27-2-2018 by Gandalf77 because: typo



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: ScepticScot




So they are socialists without a socialist agenda.

Seriously the mental gymnastics here is impressive.


Never said that. You must be on some socialist logic.


No it's just ridiculous hypocrisy on your part that you will change your definition of socialism to agree with one poster and then disagree with another.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: Gandalf77




Amazing is correct to point out that many Americans are indeed thinking about the social democracies of the Nordic countries, where the principal of private property is still very much intact.



"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

“The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,” he added.


And the Danes, Swedes, the Fins etc. would dispute that. Danish PM in US: Denmark is not socialist



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: JBurns




they hide behind labels like 'Democrat,' 'left-wing,' and 'progressive' to make their socialist agenda more palatable, and that's terrifying."


Unmitigated good news, nice one!

Hey reichwingers,

how do your feelings feel today? Free healthcare for everyone might be a terrific thing to have, kinda sad that Trump didn't follow up on that. Yeah. Who would have thunkt!





posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 04:09 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gandalf77




Amazing is correct to point out that many Americans are indeed thinking about the social democracies of the Nordic countries, where the principal of private property is still very much intact.



"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

“The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,” he added.


And the Danes, Swedes, the Fins etc. would dispute that. Danish PM in US: Denmark is not socialist


Perhaps I'm misreading your response, but I don't think they would refute the notion that private property is still intact.

From the Wikipedia entry on the "Nordic model":


Although there are significant differences among the Nordic countries, they all share some common traits. These include support for a "universalist" welfare state aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy and promoting social mobility; a corporatist system involving a tripartite arrangement where representatives of labor and employers negotiate wages and labor market policy mediated by the government;[8] and a commitment to widespread private ownership, free markets and free trade.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 04:14 PM
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originally posted by: Gandalf77

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gandalf77




Amazing is correct to point out that many Americans are indeed thinking about the social democracies of the Nordic countries, where the principal of private property is still very much intact.



"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.

“The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,” he added.


And the Danes, Swedes, the Fins etc. would dispute that. Danish PM in US: Denmark is not socialist


Perhaps I'm misreading your response, but I don't think they would refute the notion that private property is still intact.

From the Wikipedia entry on the "Nordic model":


Although there are significant differences among the Nordic countries, they all share some common traits. These include support for a "universalist" welfare state aimed specifically at enhancing individual autonomy and promoting social mobility; a corporatist system involving a tripartite arrangement where representatives of labor and employers negotiate wages and labor market policy mediated by the government;[8] and a commitment to widespread private ownership, free markets and free trade.






That sounds like a system where the people actually benefit from, how socialist of them, how dare they think of benefiting the people, they should change their system to one that benefits corporations like in the U. S where people are free to die in the streets.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: Gandalf77

Yes, you're misreading my response. I was merely showing that people such as Bernie Sanders, who equate the Nordic model with socialism, are wrong.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot




No it's just ridiculous hypocrisy on your part that you will change your definition of socialism to agree with one poster and then disagree with another.


For one, you do not know what hypocrisy is, and two, I haven't changed any definition of socialism. More of that socialist logic.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 04:23 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: ScepticScot




No it's just ridiculous hypocrisy on your part that you will change your definition of socialism to agree with one poster and then disagree with another.


For one, you do not know what hypocrisy is, and two, I haven't changed any definition of socialism. More of that socialist logic.


Only by your definition I'm not a socialist.

Oh look you have done it again.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: ScepticScot




Only by your definition I'm not a socialist.

Oh look you have done it again.


I never called you a socialist. I was using the word "socialist" in the adjectival sense, hence, socialist logic. Woops, you did it again.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: JBurns

I'm sorry, but the NRA has not the faintest idea of what real socialism is. Anyone who accuses the Democrats of being socialists is fantastically ignorant. I'm a British Liberal Democrat (look it up before some moron inevitably accuses me of being a commie or something) and I have debated actual real socialists.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 04:33 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: amazing

Thats' what the GD definition says.



socialism [soh-shuh-liz-uh m] Spell Syllables Examples Word Origin See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com noun 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. 2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. 3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.


www.dictionary.com...

But who cares right?


Yes because we're talking about what people really mean.

Bernie sanders isn't talking about implementing Venenzuala policy but Norway/Denmark Policy. It's important that you understand that.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 04:39 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gandalf77

Yes, you're misreading my response. I was merely showing that people such as Bernie Sanders, who equate the Nordic model with socialism, are wrong.


Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying.

Philosophically speaking, I think the problem is that there isn't one garden-variety brand of socialism.

The "Nordic model" is also called "Nordic capitalism" and "Nordic social democracy."

Wikipedia - Nordic model

They didn't completely do away with capitalism, but they did use socialist ideas to create a safety net to help bridge the gap between the haves and the have-nots.

To your point, I can't speak for Bernie's brand of socialism, but it's not incorrect to refer to the Nordic model as an example of successful social democracy.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: Gandalf77

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gandalf77

Yes, you're misreading my response. I was merely showing that people such as Bernie Sanders, who equate the Nordic model with socialism, are wrong.


Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying.

Philosophically speaking, I think the problem is that there isn't one garden-variety brand of socialism.

The "Nordic model" is also called "Nordic capitalism" and "Nordic social democracy."

Wikipedia - Nordic model

They didn't completely do away with capitalism, but they did use socialist ideas to create a safety net to help bridge the gap between the haves and the have-nots.

To your point, I can't speak for Bernie's brand of socialism, but it's not incorrect to refer to the Nordic model as an example of successful social democracy.



I wouldn't say welfare comes from "socialist ideas", simply because welfare has been around since long before socialism was even conceived. They are liberal first and foremost, even conservative. Socialists go as far as to criticize welfare and charity as products of capitalist systems, even as antithetical to their goal of replacing capitalism.



posted on Feb, 27 2018 @ 05:02 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope




Socialists go as far as to criticize welfare and charity as products of capitalist systems, even as antithetical to their goal of replacing capitalism.


Rightly so btw. Some charities exist to launder money only and NGOs are not prone to cause more harm, either. Oxfam in Haiti might ring a bell.

Scrap welfare and fight poverty with a global UBI! Probably the only shot you NRAdnecks have in this fight, and the people could buy more guns as well! Even bigger ones!!!oneoneeleven




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