Only the bad guys have guns in gun free zones?

originally posted by: TinySickTears
Thinking about this since yesterday. I was at the BMv and I ran into my brother. He is 25. Has a ccw and is in police academy right now. We got to talking about how crazy # is and he said that's why I'm carrying right now.

So you're not supposed to carry in bmv cause it is a gun free zone. So I started thinking about how many law abiding ccw holders carry in places you're not supposed to.
I have no facts to back this up and it's just thinking out loud but I have to think a pretty good percentage of ccw holders prob carry in these zones.
I base that only on how people behave.
Clearly there is at least 1. My brother.
Obviously there are others.

I bring this up cause we always here that only the bad guys will have guns in these areas. After yesterday and just thinking on it I think this is not true.

So to all ccw holders here. Do you follow the rules to the letter and leave your weapon behind before going into these places?
100 percent of the time?

I am not interested in turning this into a debate on should people be able to carry in these places vs if they actually do.
Not an argument I'm interested in having.

I'm just curious as to how many obey the signs.

Point being is it fair to say only bad guys will have guns in these zones?

Is it fair to say some ccw still carry in these places? I don't really have experience with it. Just something I was thinking about

I do mostly...not always. Hospitals are off limits and schools. Much as I hate to.. I will leave it in the car.

I work at the City Civic complex where Police, the Court House, Fire and E. R. services, Animal shelter, public library, road and power commissions and City Hall are... and 99% of everyone carries concealed.

Now... Whereas the city would rather employees leave them outside... there is nothing posted as G. FREE ZONES, so we don't.

General consensus is we would rather save lives and lose our job... then to be killed /w others...and still have a job.. but dead!

Always nice to interact/w you T. S. T... have a great day.... M. S.

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
There is a difference in something being wrong in and of itself ( murder, rape, robbery ) and wrong because some bureaucrat says so. ( jaywalking, minor ordinances and violations ).

Lawful versus legal.

Ultimately, natural law dictates that I am responsible for my safety. .

i totally agree with you.
100%

when it comes to certain issue though people tend to cite what is legal and what is not.

while i dont disagree with you at all, our laws and regulations are not based on natural law.

in the end the point i am trying to make is the argument of only bad guys have guns in these zones in invalid because it is simply not true.
it is presented on these boards like it is though.

it sure seems to me that criminal or not. gun zone or not if a person wants to carry in a specific area they are going to carry in that area.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

i dig talking to you too

im not going to talk # about ccw holders that carry when the signs say dont.
i am just trying to confirm what i have suspected for a while but talking to my brother yesterday really just brought it to the font of my mind.

been a lot of gun talk as of late.

My dad was a cop and he used to joke that murder should be legal. His reasoning was it would make everyone much more mindful of others. In other words, an armed society is a polite society.

You don't go running off at the mouth, threatening people, and acting as an all around asshat when you are not sure if others are armed. At least I know I don't. This is why I don't road rage or do anything confrontational as I simply don't know who is armed and it isn't worth finding out.

Being a cop, my dad always had his gun on him. ALWAYS. I saw him have to pull it on someone once off duty (a crackhead who was being threatening). Sobered him up real quick. No shots fired.

a reply to: TinySickTears

Only the bad guys have guns in gun free zones?

Thats why they go there.

You notice they don't attack police stations.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: TinySickTears

Only the bad guys have guns in gun free zones?

Thats why they go there.

You notice they don't attack police stations.

thats bull# and you know it

clearly the 'good guys' carry in those places too.

have you read the thread?

originally posted by: Edumakated


You don't go running off at the mouth, threatening people, and acting as an all around asshat when you are not sure if others are armed. At least I know I don't. This is why I don't road rage or do anything confrontational as I simply don't know who is armed and it isn't worth finding out.

i guess man

i dont do any of that cause im not an asshole

#ty way to be my friend.
just an opinion

I've never made that argument. I've always just said that "No Gun Zones" signs do absolutely nothing to prevent someone with bad intentions from carrying a gun past them.

Heck, in the late 90's, when I was in high school, I knew teachers who carried guns on campus. It was "illegal" at the time, but they did it anyway. They considered their own safety and their student's safety to be more important than some bureaucrat's opinion.

There have always been laws that are unjust or wrong. It's human nature to rebel against them. Civil disobedience is a time honored tradition in the U.S.

Think about:
Slavery
The ban on gay marriage
Jim Crow laws
Just to name a few

All perfectly "legal" at one time.

"One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws." - MLK

originally posted by: TinySickTears

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: TinySickTears

Only the bad guys have guns in gun free zones?

Thats why they go there.

You notice they don't attack police stations.

thats bull# and you know it

clearly the 'good guys' carry in those places too.

have you read the thread?

What "Bad guys " are you talking about? If you meant mass murderers, then yes, they go to 'gun free zones' to kill because they know theres no firearms there to stop them.

They plan ahead you know. If there had been any CCW permit holders there we would have heard about it. Probably because they shot back, like that guy at that church in Texas.

originally posted by: cynicalheathen
I've never made that argument. I've always just said that "No Gun Zones" signs do absolutely nothing to prevent someone with bad intentions from carrying a gun past them.

not saying you personally made that argument

of course i agree that no gun zones will not prevent someone with bad intentions from carrying in those zones. obviosuly

what i am learning though is though signs dont do much to stop ccw holders from carrying in those zones either.
so then why the constant talk of only bad guys will have guns in these zones?

that is the part i am interested in.

it is constantly regurgitated here.
when something bad happens people start saying that its because only the bad guys have the guns in those areas and if a good guy had a gun # wouldnt happen.

clearly the good guys do carry guns in those zones as well so now what?

a reply to: TinySickTears


The gun free zone thing was/is mostly part of the psychological warfare strategies against the 2nd amendment if you ask me. About as stupid.....no wait, much more stupid than the laws against sawed off shotguns but in the same basket.

originally posted by: intrptr


What "Bad guys " are you talking about? If you meant mass murderers, then yes, they go to 'gun free zones' to kill because they know theres no firearms there to stop them.

They plan ahead you know. If there had been any CCW permit holders there we would have heard about it. Probably because they shot back, like that guy at that church in Texas.

just talking in general using terms i see on here

only bad guys will have guns in the gun free zones cause us law abiding citizens blah blah

thats what we hear but just since yesterday i have learned of multiple 'good guys' that carry into these zones as well so the argument about those zones is starting to hold less water for me.

and you cant know about your last part. youre saying we probably would have heard cause they probably would have shot back

yes that is possible


or

there was someone with a ccw carrying and didnt do # when it came time to react.

is this not possible as well?

not talking #. you never know how you will react to a situation.

Be clear, this thread is about pulling CCW holders noses and trying to get some to admit so you can later use it in discussion to say something like this:

"Here is a thread I did, gun owners / ccw holders don´t respect the law as much as criminals".

That´s what this thread is about, I just didn´t get it at first but it´s clear.

a reply to: verschickter

Yep, because the OP knows a sense of bravado on the internet will get many people to say just what they did and support the argument he wants to support.

I notice that he only responded to people who claim to "break the law" rather than the person who soberly states he follows the law.

originally posted by: verschickter
Be clear, this thread is about pulling CCW holders noses and trying to get some to admit so you can later use it in discussion to say something like this:

"Here is a thread I did, gun owners / ccw holders don´t respect the law as much as criminals".

That´s what this thread is about, I just didn´t get it at first but it´s clear.

well i dont do # like that. im not talking # about the people doing it.
just trying to find out what other ccw holders do.

again i have long suspected already but now i am asking.

answer. dont answer. whatever

im not running off with the mouth or suggesting more or less regulations. none of that
just asking questions because i am curious.

this thread is not about finding out who does this so i can use it later

this thread is about finding out who does this so i can confirm by own suspicions...
those being

law abiding ccw holders carry in these places too even though it is against the law

the argument that only bad guys/criminals will have guns in these area is bull#

so why you getting pissy?

im not allowed to ask questions?
im not allowed to have an opinion?

i have not been negative towards anyone in this thread

so whats your problem exactly?

are you a ccw holder that carries in these areas even though youre not supposed to?
piss you off that im asking?

what is it?

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: verschickter

Yep, because the OP knows a sense of bravado on the internet will get many people to say just what they did and support the argument he wants to support.

I notice that he only responded to people who claim to "break the law" rather than the person who soberly states he follows the law.

bravado?

not really.
learning a lot though.

i am learning that even if you are respectful and ask honest legit questions people still get pissy when it comes to certain issues.

i dont want people to say something that will support my argument. i dont want them to say something that will refute it.
i want people to be honest is all.

i would like people to stop saying only the criminals will have guns in these zones because it is not true.

dont know why any of that pisses any of you off.

im not trying to open a debate for more gun control.
i just want people to be #ing honest and stop trying to make others think they may be safer if more people had guns.

that should not piss anyone off so that part i really dont understand

a reply to: TinySickTears

there was someone with a ccw carrying and didnt do # when it came time to react.

is this not possible as well?

Not likely. If I got the chance, I would (shoot back).

Your brother says he carries concealed illegally at times. I don't have any veracity for that or your claim you don't believe it about others anymore. People carry guns to protect themselves and others. Can't think of a better time to whip one out.

I´m not pissy and of course you have every right to ask questions and have an opinion. Can´t see where I denied you that. Care to show me?

I thought I´d ask but now that you get so defendy (see how that works on both sides)...

are you a ccw holder that carries in these areas even though youre not supposed to? piss you off that im asking?

No.

i have not been negative towards anyone in this thread

What about the "no #!" towards me? Not that I bothered.

im not allowed to ask questions?

Am I not?

piss you off that im asking?

You certainly make the impression I did, by asking you.

Hypocrite?? So I take that as a no, you are not trying to lure others in for that exact reason

originally posted by: TinySickTears


i am learning that even if you are respectful and ask honest legit questions people still get pissy when it comes to certain issues.

Quoted for truth!

You should see me smiling right now .

Somehow a simple question pissed of him, not the way around. Things getting spinned again, how surprising.