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Only the bad guys have guns in gun free zones?

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posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 08:00 AM
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Thinking about this since yesterday. I was at the BMv and I ran into my brother. He is 25. Has a ccw and is in police academy right now. We got to talking about how crazy # is and he said that's why I'm carrying right now.

So you're not supposed to carry in bmv cause it is a gun free zone. So I started thinking about how many law abiding ccw holders carry in places you're not supposed to.
I have no facts to back this up and it's just thinking out loud but I have to think a pretty good percentage of ccw holders prob carry in these zones.
I base that only on how people behave.
Clearly there is at least 1. My brother.
Obviously there are others.

I bring this up cause we always here that only the bad guys will have guns in these areas. After yesterday and just thinking on it I think this is not true.

So to all ccw holders here. Do you follow the rules to the letter and leave your weapon behind before going into these places?
100 percent of the time?

I am not interested in turning this into a debate on should people be able to carry in these places vs if they actually do.
Not an argument I'm interested in having.

I'm just curious as to how many obey the signs.

Point being is it fair to say only bad guys will have guns in these zones?

Is it fair to say some ccw still carry in these places? I don't really have experience with it. Just something I was thinking about
edit on 25-2-2018 by TinySickTears because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 08:13 AM
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With the exception of certain government buildings, yes, I carry everywhere.

In Alabama, the "No guns" signs carry no force of law. The best the owner/agent could do is ask you to leave. If you refuse to do so, the owner/agent could have you arrested for trespassing, a misdemeanor offense.

Now, in the actually forbidden by law areas, there are metal detectors and government trained men with guns, so I don't feel so bad about not carrying in there. Those areas are clearly posted, and you can be arrested for the actual possession of your gun.

In short, those "No Guns Allowed" signs don't really deter concealed carriers in my area. As well. The business owner who posted the sign didn't hire armed guards to look out for my safety, so it's still up to me to defend myself.



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 08:19 AM
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I would say the successful mass murder scenes, the bad guys were the only ones with the gun. In a few of the unsuccessful cases (the shooter was taken out), a good guy had a gun. These are usually buried in the main stream media and not widely reported on.
I will pack heat wherever I feel uneasy. I would rather be alive defending myself in court than dead any day.



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: TinySickTears

Personally, I follow the law. I dont frequent places that dont allow me to carry and vote with my dollars. Government buildings and bars, I personally choose to leave my weapon at home in the safe as I dont like leaving my weapon in a car where it might be stolen and used in a crime. Just my personal reasoning.



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 08:27 AM
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I also wanted to add that concealed means concealed. If you do it right, with a proper holster and belt designed for that purpose, nobody but you will know you have it.

I get a chuckle out of people who either carry too large of a gun concealed improperly or wear too tight clothing, and the gun "prints" so bad that it's obvious exactly what it is.



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: TinySickTears

There has NEVER been a law that STOPPED a human from doing something they really wanted to do, and there NEVER will be.



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: TinySickTears

Well said.

While I am not an advocate of guns and can't ever see me owning one every time someone here or anyplace says'"disarm the police" I just shake my head. Criminals are criminals for a reason, because they dont care about the law.

Does anyone really think a criminal pays attention to gun free zones? Please tell me we have no one that naive here...



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 08:48 AM
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a reply to: TinySickTears

Well, then by definition, your brother someone that does that is a bad guy (in this situation) because he does not care and gives a # about what others don´t like on their property. If BMv (whatever that is) has a no gun policy even if it´s not lawful you should pay respect to that. Don´t go there then, it´s a personal choice, as much as deciding to give a # and bring the gun either way.

Signed, a gun owner.

Edit: I misread but I left it striked so in case someone already quoted it.
edit on 25-2-2018 by verschickter because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 08:51 AM
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originally posted by: opethPA

Does anyone really think a criminal pays attention to gun free zones? Please tell me we have no one that naive here...


i dont think the pay attention at all.

im just trying to put a figure on how many legal ccw holders dont pay attention either.

we always hear only the bad guys will have guns in these no gun zones but i dont think that is the case.
thats why i started this tread. i wanted to see how people would answer.

the very 1st poster here said those signs really dont deter ccw holders in their area.

the question will be how is the argument of only the bad guys will have guns in these zones valid because we can see that is not always true either



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 08:55 AM
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originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: TinySickTears

Well, then by definition, your brother someone that does that is a bad guy (in this situation) because he does not care and gives a # about what others don´t like on their property. If BMv (whatever that is) has a no gun policy even if it´s not lawful you should pay respect to that. Don´t go there then, it´s a personal choice, as much as deciding to give a # and bring the gun either way.

Signed, a gun owner.

Edit: I misread but I left it striked so in case someone already quoted it.


no #. kind of my point.
im trying to have a discussion to gauge how many people like my brother are legal ccw holders but do not follow the signs. we already know the bad guy types dont give a # about the signs.

i am curious to the ccw holders though. the otherwise law abiders.

i am trying to see how valid the argument of only the bad guys will have guns in those areas is.
we hear it a lot.



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 08:55 AM
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originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: TinySickTears

Well, then by definition, your brother someone that does that is a bad guy (in this situation) because he does not care and gives a # about what others don´t like on their property. If BMv (whatever that is) has a no gun policy even if it´s not lawful you should pay respect to that. Don´t go there then, it´s a personal choice, as much as deciding to give a # and bring the gun either way.

Signed, a gun owner.

Edit: I misread but I left it striked so in case someone already quoted it.


no #. kind of my point.
im trying to have a discussion to gauge how many people like my brother are legal ccw holders but do not follow the signs. we already know the bad guy types dont give a # about the signs.

i am curious to the ccw holders though. the otherwise law abiders.

i am trying to see how valid the argument of only the bad guys will have guns in those areas is.
we hear it a lot.



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 08:57 AM
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a reply to: TinySickTears

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”
― George Orwell



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 09:04 AM
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originally posted by: TexasTruth
I would say the successful mass murder scenes, the bad guys were the only ones with the gun. In a few of the unsuccessful cases (the shooter was taken out), a good guy had a gun. These are usually buried in the main stream media and not widely reported on.
I will pack heat wherever I feel uneasy. I would rather be alive defending myself in court than dead any day.


we dont know for sure though if any good guys had guns in these situations. people assume there was none because they didnt pull and try to save the day but they could have been like the dude at the school and just froze up.

the argument is we would be safer if good guys had guns in these zones because only bad guys carry in those zones.
not always true though now is it?

just since yesterday i have learned of 3 people that have a ccw and carry into these gun free zones.
my brother
the first person to post and you

so much like criminals dont obey the rules ccw holders dont either?

1 person even said my brother is a bad guy for not obeying the sign.
you carry wherever you feel you need... does that make you a bad guy?

i know my thoughts are jumbled. i cant really articulate what i am thinking about.

how is a discussion about gun laws and regulations supposed to get anywhere when people cant agree on how it is now?
who is right?

we see on these boards all the time people talking about following the laws and the rules and being safe.

as it stands not we have bad guys that carry in these gun free zones

we have some like a person above that will not carry in those places cause he respects the ruls

we have others that carry where they feel the need

so criminals carry whenever they want and wherever they want. obviously
seems like some legal ccw holders do too.

so basically people(as expected cause we are people) pick and choose which rules to follow.



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 09:06 AM
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I live in a town full of anti-gunners. In fact, our town was part of one of the supreme court cases on gun rights bans to drive home the point. Anyway, all the businesses here have these stupid "gun free zone" signs. I know for fact many CCW holders ignore these signs.

I've often trolled the town folks asking if I could put a "This house is gun free" sign in their front yard.

The crazy thing is I don't get who these signs are supposed to be for? Law abiding citizens? Criminals? Why advertise to the world your business is gun free?



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: TinySickTears

I see your point. There are a lot of “law abiding citizens” who don’t really abide by the law when they don’t agree with it.



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 09:10 AM
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originally posted by: TexasTruth
I would say the successful mass murder scenes, the bad guys were the only ones with the gun.


Surely they would use a car, a knife, a hammer, if they were intent in killing as many people as possible?

It's a gun free zone. Why are there never any mass hammer killings in walmart?? Maybe they need to make them hammer free zones, to elicit the crazies to go all hammery on the populace.

let you think about that, naked gun toting guy by the pool.



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 09:15 AM
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originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: TinySickTears

There has NEVER been a law that STOPPED a human from doing something they really wanted to do, and there NEVER will be.



No law has ever stopped murder either. Banning murder is a crime. We should be free to kill anyone that looks at us wrong. I mean, is not a right to life, a right after all?

As long as it's just kept to deranged people, we can all say how bad it is after the fact... not considering bob the ex cop goes postal, or barry the yard worker.. or fred the disenfranchised nerd. we need to all be armed to the teeth, so hammer barry can kill all 1 person before he's tackled to the ground.. tackling someone, unheard of in the land of the gun and the home of the bump stock.



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 09:17 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: TinySickTears

I see your point. There are a lot of “law abiding citizens” who don’t really abide by the law when they don’t agree with it.


basically.
trying to choose words carefully because i really do want to know by the ccw people here if they carry into these places.

for me it just comes back to how many times we have seen the 'only the bad guys have guns in those zones' argument.
we hear it all the time on here.

clearly that is just not true though. some good guys that decided not to follow the rules will have guns too.

why do we always see that argument then?
why do we need fewer gun free zones? otherwise law abiding citizens clearly carry in those places too.

theyre gonna carry where they feel safe
as long as you use s small gun and holster nobody is gonna know you have it anyway..... just heard that one today

so it seems like a safe assumption would be everyone has a #ing gun?? right?

and apparently in any situation where a shooter was not stopped it was because in those situations nobody else had a gun.
we do know of at least 1 situation where a person did have a gun and a job to do yet he didnt do it

not talking # on that. you never know how you are going to react to a thing.

it seems to me the only truthful thought or statement would be

--in gun free zones along with criminals having guns on them some law abiding ccw holders will have guns on them too. if something pops off in one of those situations and a criminal starts shooting, a law abiding ccw holder may react and try to help or may freeze up--

that is an honest statement

why the need for more gun free zones?
why the need for fewer?


kind of seems to me that for the most part of people want to carry theyre gonna carry

seems to me that some people freak out and go on a rampage

seems to me the world is #ing crazy



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 09:21 AM
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There is a difference in something being wrong in and of itself ( murder, rape, robbery ) and wrong because some bureaucrat says so. ( jaywalking, minor ordinances and violations ).

Lawful versus legal. Malum in se vs. Malum prohibitum.

Ultimately, natural law dictates that I am responsible for my safety. Just because some shop owner wants to put up a sign doesn't mean it's magically safe. Most of the "No guns allowed" stickers around here were given out years ago by local law enforcement after our legislature ( finally ) clarified that open carry of a handgun is and has been legal for a long time. The sticker specifically says "No Open Carry of Firearms", nothing about concealed carry.

I do go out of my way to ensure that I don't spend money at places that insist their customers be disarmed, but in some instances, I have little choice but to go to the one place that has what I need. In that instance, I'll choose to be armed rather than be a sheep.

In my opinion, store owners who forbid the carry of firearms on their premises, but don't hire guards to keep their patrons safe assume all liability for any damages or loss their patrons incur as a result.

Here in the South, no store would make a huge deal about being Anti-Gun anyway. They would quickly have no customers. The only local store I'm aware of that has ever made a fuss is Target, who I don't patronize anyway.



posted on Feb, 25 2018 @ 09:21 AM
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I 100% agree with the title, yeah only bad guys have guns and usually they dont want to get caught, the shooter in the Florida incident was not a previuos bad guy, his bad guyness started the moment he pulled the trigger, prior to that he was not going to be labled a bad guy.

Career criminals are not usually mass shooters, mass shooters have every chance of being a good citizen up to the point they snap, therefore its best IMO to remove firearms from day to day society.

This does not lead to a society which is crime free, it just goes a long way to eradicating incidents like this, crime existed prior to firearms and will exist with or without firearms but mass shootings will reduce, sounds like a good idea to me.



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