Read the arrest report on the Florida shooting suspect

a reply to: Logarock
I wish you would have read my post.

Here, the most important part

an outsider will hear different locations.

So if you tell me that there was someone inside, my post is still valid and like I said:

Not trying to dispute there could have been several ones but consider this:

Also with your gun range look.....a single shot is still heard as a single shot. Shots are not ambient.

Please tell me how you came to the conclusion I was stating that.

Again, I was providing an explanation why you can´t trust your ears with that. If there was an eyewitness, good, still nothing that I wrote was wrong in any kind of way.


I see, with every shooting, there are always members that try to push a second shooter narrative. You can´t even state facts without getting responses like this. And so be honest, it wouldn´t have been the first time a supposed eyewitness was lying.

See school shooting in Germany, Erfurt. Years after that, the teacher admitted he never saw or spoke with the killer, he hid in the closet. So much for that. Not accusing her of lying but it wouldn´t be the first time someone makes stuff up while on camera.


The teacher said he spoke to the guy and calmed him down, he was playing the hero so to speak. Turned out it was a big fat lie.

a reply to: NightFlight

And, whats so special about the number 17?

The number 17 has been, and is currently being, encoded into man-made ritualistic occult events.

okafala.wordpress.com...

a reply to: verschickter


Ok just pull it up a bit. Nor was I really trying to make a case for any scenario really but simply looking at how conclusions are reached. Didn't mean to get a row going.

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: Boadicea

Another interpretation of "shooting students that he saw in the hallways and on the school grounds" could mean hallways and classrooms. I agree with you that it sounds like it means outdoors but classrooms are also "school grounds". Maybe it was just poorly worded.

That could be -- thank you. And I should probably remember that these are presumably the perp's words being repeated in the report, not the officer's words. Who knows how much sense Cruz was making?

As far as the mask and helmet, if it were only one witness, it's possible he was hysterical.... If more than just the one teacher reports seeing a mask and helmet, I'd say it deserves a second look, though.

I guess that's what gets to me is that there were plenty of others -- both teachers and students -- but we haven't heard from any of them. Even within this article, only the teacher is quoted, no one else. It seems to me that if I were going to write an article about a hero teacher, that I would want to include the stories from some of the students he saved, ya know? Praise and gratitude goes so much farther than boasting and patting one's self on the back. Or maybe that's just me.

But so far I've yet to see one of these shootings where everything adds up neatly. Chaos is reflected in conflicting accounts and implausible aftermaths.

So true. Even in the best of circumstances. Throw in political agendas and CYA and crappy reporting and this and that and it's hard to make sense of it all!

We can't expect nightmares to always make sense when we wake up, you know.

Ain't that the truth. No matter how much we want them to.

a reply to: Logarock

I missed the part with the eyewitness, If I had read that, I probably wouldn´t have posted that at all. But it helped some members who never or very seldom hear gunshots / never tried to locate them.

So all´s good

a reply to: NightFlight

Immediately after the school shooting, first the media and then law enforcement spokes people stated that there were 17 deaths and unknown victims at that time. They stated this until up into the night. Next day, I heard from news organizations and law enforcement that 2 more victims had died during the night in the hospital and the death total was - wait for it - 17.

I didn't realize this ^^^. I do remember "17" deaths as the only number I've heard, and I had heard that two more victims had died in hospital, but I never thought about the total not increasing.

originally posted by: Boadicea
I found it curious that the report referred to Cruz "shooting students that he saw in the hallways and on the school grounds," because I haven't heard of anyone shot outside of the building, but this seems to indicate that persons were shot outside.

The very early reports said that a couple of victims were shot outside on the school grounds, and another on the street just outside school grounds. Though I don't have the original source.

originally posted by: face23785
The fact that she's an anomaly and there's not a bunch of people reporting 2 shooters is most telling to me. There were hundreds of people in the school. If there were 2 shooters more than 2 or 3 people would be aware of it.

How do you know there's not a lot more witnesses that saw/heard two or more shooters? Have you read all the witness statements?

originally posted by: starviego

originally posted by: face23785
The fact that she's an anomaly and there's not a bunch of people reporting 2 shooters is most telling to me. There were hundreds of people in the school. If there were 2 shooters more than 2 or 3 people would be aware of it.

How do you know there's not a lot more witnesses that saw/heard two or more shooters? Have you read all the witness statements?

We don't know for sure, nor do we know for sure that there are more witnesses to support a 2nd shooter. So to just take a few such reports as gospel and lean more towards believing there were 2 shooters at this point is premature, in my opinion, given what we know about eyewitnesses and memory in general in highly stressful situations. So far the information just doesn't support that. There are always anomalous reports in these types of incidents, there's no reason to suspect these aren't just more of the same. If a bunch more witnesses come out in support of a 2nd shooter I'll change my tune. Right now it just looks like a few people in an extraordinarily stressful situation have less than perfect recollections of what happened. It would be more odd and suspicious if everyone's story matched up precisely.

a reply to: starviego

The very early reports said that a couple of victims were shot outside on the school grounds, and another on the street just outside school grounds. Though I don't have the original source.

I remember that being reported as well. In fact, I remember reports that he "shot his way in" to the school campus. So perhaps the injured students who made it outside were mistakenly thought to have been shot outside... or maybe there's more to this than we're being told.

It bothers me that the only students we're hearing from are the students with a political agenda being promoted and propped up by adults with even bigger political agendas... and that's best case scenario. With Brennan at CNN now, I'm not sure who's really calling the shots there.

a reply to: face23785

We don't know for sure, nor do we know for sure that there are more witnesses to support a 2nd shooter. So to just take a few such reports as gospel and lean more towards believing there were 2 shooters at this point is premature, in my opinion, given what we know about eyewitnesses and memory in general in highly stressful situations. So far the information just doesn't support that. There are always anomalous reports in these types of incidents, there's no reason to suspect these aren't just more of the same. If a bunch more witnesses come out in support of a 2nd shooter I'll change my tune. Right now it just looks like a few people in an extraordinarily stressful situation have less than perfect recollections of what happened. It would be more odd and suspicious if everyone's story matched up precisely.

I appreciate your caution and skepticism and the wisdom of your words...

For me, it is exactly the lack of other witness accounts -- to corroborate or to debunk/discredit -- that I find disturbing. Rightly or wrongly, I would expect far more focus on the witness/survivor stories for the personal and human side. As I mentioned in a previous post regarding a teacher that helped his students seek cover, he was the only one quoted in the article... nothing from the students he presumably "saved." So instead of a story of gratitude and appreciation, it's a story of pride and boasting.

Right now, the few stories we have conflict, and there aren't enough stories to even begin to know what's true, what's possible, what's probable -- nothing.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: face23785

We don't know for sure, nor do we know for sure that there are more witnesses to support a 2nd shooter. So to just take a few such reports as gospel and lean more towards believing there were 2 shooters at this point is premature, in my opinion, given what we know about eyewitnesses and memory in general in highly stressful situations. So far the information just doesn't support that. There are always anomalous reports in these types of incidents, there's no reason to suspect these aren't just more of the same. If a bunch more witnesses come out in support of a 2nd shooter I'll change my tune. Right now it just looks like a few people in an extraordinarily stressful situation have less than perfect recollections of what happened. It would be more odd and suspicious if everyone's story matched up precisely.

I appreciate your caution and skepticism and the wisdom of your words...

For me, it is exactly the lack of other witness accounts -- to corroborate or to debunk/discredit -- that I find disturbing. Rightly or wrongly, I would expect far more focus on the witness/survivor stories for the personal and human side. As I mentioned in a previous post regarding a teacher that helped his students seek cover, he was the only one quoted in the article... nothing from the students he presumably "saved." So instead of a story of gratitude and appreciation, it's a story of pride and boasting.

Right now, the few stories we have conflict, and there aren't enough stories to even begin to know what's true, what's possible, what's probable -- nothing.

There's been a ton of live interviews with students and teachers who were there. I'm not sure they interviewed every single person who was in the building but I wouldn't say there's been a lack of witness accounts.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
Forget all this, it's been decided, the dangers of porn and video games are much more serious than gun wielding lunatics who decide to turn schools into free for all safari hunts

In addition 31 children have been killed at schools (by a gun) since 2014. 7,300 children killed by gun throughout the rest of the country since 2014. Our priorities to prevent children from being shot, are all out of whack.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
Forget all this, it's been decided, the dangers of porn and video games are much more serious than gun wielding lunatics who decide to turn schools into free for all safari hunts

In addition 31 children have been killed at schools (by a gun) since 2014. 7,300 children killed by gun throughout the rest of the country since 2014. Our priorities to prevent children from being shot, are all out of whack.

Our priorities to prevent children from dying are all out of whack too. We're focused on something like the #8 cause of death in children. But you can't campaign and fundraise on the ones above it, so who cares about those kids?

ETA: Also, be careful where you get your statistics. Some of these gun control groups will show you a number for firearm deaths among children, with a tiny little asterisk next to it, and if you look at the asterisk it's because they're including adults aged 18 and 19 to inflate the statistics.

Why didn't the school monitor who identified Cruz as he arrived notify the resource officer?
Why is this monitor and the Uber driver (the only 2 to identify Cruz) left unnamed?

a reply to: Perfectenemy

Ah, David Hogg also said, in the awkward interview so many people thought was scripted, that there was a drill earlier in the day.

Looks to me like his interview with students ‘during the shooting’ actually took place during the drill.

a reply to: starviego

I just found this from a transcript from a Fox story that night:

A very stone- faced and grim Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said 17 lives were lost today in a very somber, somber and short press update here about half an hour ago. 12 of those bodies remain in the school; two of the bodies were shot and killed outside of the school; another person shot and killed down the road on pine island drive, and two died while being treated for their wounds inside the hospital.

We weren't mis-remembering!

a reply to: face23785

I'm sorry... I should have been clearer. I mean witness accounts seeing and or hearing the shooter -- or "shooters" -- and exactly where he/they were... whether in the building, the specific class and/or floor, fleeing, etc.

I'm looking again, but I'm still just mostly finding, "witness was in the building" or "on the same floor" or other vague statements. I'm reading from one kid whose class didn't leave the classroom and learned on the news that there was a shooter -- but no questions about his location in the building. Or why his teacher thought the alarm meant for them to stay in the class, while others thought they needed to evacuate the class. Everything I read just leaves me with more questions.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

A lot of people mentioned there was a drill earlier in the day. It was a fire drill.

a reply to: Boadicea

I'm pretty sure everybody in that building could hear the shots. Every interview I've seen they mention hearing shots.

ETA:

Also, the reason some thought they should stay in class was because they just had a fire drill earlier in the day and some people initially assumed the alarm the shooter pulled was some kind of mistake. Which is irresponsible as #, when the fire alarm goes off you evacuate, period. It could've been a real fire.