Let's Have A Nuts And Bolts UFO Discussion

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Kandinsky

nuts n bolts doesnt necessarily mean alien, extra terrestrial or extra dimensional. it just means physical hardware and machinery. hey could even be human endeavours. love the cases you mentioned in your post. more cases that can give us clues the better.

Yeah, but there's an implicit 'elsewhere' if we're talking nuts n bolts. These things had to have been manufactured somewhere. Even if it's in some Pacific trench, it's fair to speculate such a technology has an origin that ain't necessarily this planet. They could be 'metaterrestrials' or 'cryptos,' but even those ideas are based on the intelligence being an 'other.'

Don't get me wrong though, I understand what you're saying and I'm not really taking a solid position. Too often, people want to claim the hill and get their flag stuck in. Let's have more evidence that the hill is really a hill, right? These speculative objects could be propelled on birthday wishes for all we know. It hasn't stopped some from speaking like they've got the specs and looked under the hood.

a reply to: Xtrozero

With that said, I don't see species traveling the universe, but there is one thing that old mother nature can not effect and that is machines. Self replicating machines have all the time in the universe and it is suggested that it would take about 2 billion years to explore the known universe we see today. What this means is a species that has long come and gone might have reached the point to sending out self replicating machines that tirelessly collect information and send it back to a race long gone.

This is where my thoughts go too when I'm speculating. It's like an arc that everyone eventually follows. They start off with the 'special offer, basic plan' version of the ETH that's as straightforward as Star Wars or Star Trek. In that one, we see spaceships with full crews and project missions. After more reading, it becomes apparent that something more nuanced and fascinating is ahead of us. Eventually people branch off into demons, portals, control systems and other sophisticated understandings.

Imagine a civilisation that left behind flesh and blood a few thousands of years ago? The span of its knowledge would be like a beach compared to our small grain of sand. It would manipulate/control energy in ways we probably haven't conceived of yet and make us obsolete in terms of a relationship with the speculative intelligence.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

nice post. chill out indeed.

here's the paper Teo is citing for those interested in reading.

lanl.arxiv.org...

I was going somewhere else with my post, but yours is very valid and pertinent to this thread and discussion. welcome to the thread! star from me! stick around and chat some more with us. we could use your firepower in this thread.

And the paper says that

the anomalous signals are just three times above or even below the minimum rotation rate upper limit of the gyroscope used and hence remain doubtful.

Here is a followup paper:
tu-dresden.de...

They repeated the experiment at much higher speeds, with the same result.

No anomalous signals were found up to within 3 times the noise level of our gyroscope..

In addition, our accelerometers (mounted in tangential, radial and vertical direction) did not record any
anomalous result within a noise band of ±10μg.

They mention acoustic noise created by the rotating helium possibly affecting the gyroscope.

a reply to: Kandinsky

you're forgetting that we could be building them. you can dismiss that outright but at least consider it.

a reply to: moebius
good post!

what you bring up reinforces why I was going a different direction with my post, which I'll get more into in a bit.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Kandinsky

you're forgetting that we could be building them. you can dismiss that outright but at least consider it.

I'm not forgetting it and don't dismiss much either

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Kandinsky

you're forgetting that we could be building them. you can dismiss that outright but at least consider it.

davidhamel.com...

rexresearch.com...

searlsolution.com...

www.rexresearch.com...


These are just a few examples of people who have built or are building Neutral Dimension Zone Craft.

Any reasonable time spent researching these people and their contemporaries should give you enough generic paralells to get a rough idea of how these craft function....once you know this then you learn how EASY things really are.

These Craft and their technology are REPLICATIONS of nature....sooooo....who REPLICATES NATURE......yes I ask...WHO...not what.....sentient beings who are now REMOVED FROM NATURE enough that they are trying to survive against the odds....lol...they are DEFYING NATURE TO SIMPLY EXIST....by REPLICATING NATURE.

Us/We/Them.....lol....the human race is written all over every aspect of this topic.

a reply to: TheBadCabbie
I got 2 for your engineer's brain to chew on:
In chronological order, yet.
#1 I was walking at night looking at satellites on a country road. I saw what looked like a bike light coming towards me- there was no sound, so.. "Bike". I got off the road to let the thing pass me.
What went by me at a distance of a couple *feet* was a solid ball of light, slightly frosted, and with internal ribs (on the glass, like a headlight would have). It was not by any means a spirit, ghost, or anything ethereal. It was a completely silent, mechanical/ electrical device that glided past me so close, I could have touched it, slid into the woods, went up about 6-7 feet, and winked out, like someone turning off a light bulb.

#2 I was out with my then g/f (now wife), diff part of the state, we stopped for a smooch, and we saw- well- a JJ Abrams lens flare. It was a light that was also a cliche lens flare coming at us. Considering the lone street light that was out there wasn't doing this sort of thing, It was odd as hell. It came closer, then slid behind an old barn at the side of the road, came out from behind it, and then lit itself up just as pretty and close as you please- 20 feet away, maybe. It was a wedge shaped craft, grey metal, wraparound windshield, and being driven by a buff alien guy (it's what my wife said). Lizard skin, had turned on the pilot's cabin light so we could get a good view. I didn't see him, I was too busy taking in the ship itself. It was pretty silent, until I yelled "What- no engine noises?" And I was accommodated with a loud, jet engine like noise. There was no wind, or any air disturbance coming from it- and that distance, you'd think there would be. I was near a jet engine in the Navy once. I thought I could get warm using the deflected air from a test of an F-18's engines. I was 20 feet away, they cranked it, up, and I got tossed like a leaf in a hurricane. Yes. I'm an idiot. So- the fact there was nothing coming from this comparable sized object- your basic sci fi antigrav, I guess.

So- there you have it. 2 things to keep you up at night.

a reply to: nOraKat

According to Ben Rich of Lockheed Skunkworls - "We have the technology to take ET home."
Oh, good. I'm tired of living here. Where do I buy tickets?

originally posted by: TheBadCabbie
My companion UFO nuts and bolts mind technology thread was closed! Nnnnoooooooooo!!! (shakes fist at an angry sky) Hopefully the mods will come around on that. I guess we'll see...

Thank you to everyone that has replied so far, I think we're starting it off well enough. Allow me to ante up.

How about UFO's as weather balloons? No really, I mean it. There has been discussion of a fairly obscure project of using balloons as a piggyback for space launches, very doable. There was a thread or two about it. I'll have to see if I can dig them up.

Along those same lines, I've always found merit in the hypothesis of black triangles as dirigibles or neutral buoyancy craft. I'm pretty sure some of those models are being buoyed upwards at least in part by simply making the craft lighter than air. A little math calculating the volume of a triangular shape and air densities at varying altitudes can yield some interesting results, if one knows what to do with those numbers.

A hot air balloon floats by being lighter than the air around it. This is because the heated air inside of the balloon's envelope is less dense than the air around and outside of the envelope. The pocket of rarefied air within the balloon's envelope 'floats upward to the relative surface' of the sea of air where the weight of the balloon's envelope and basket equals the weight of a volume of surrounding air equal to the volume of the balloon's envelope and basket. The 'sea of air' that is our atmosphere becomes less dense as altitude increases, hence air density decreases accordingly as one floats upwards in this sea of air. A submarine varies its depth in a very similar fashion, flooding or evacuating ballast tanks to equalize its density as a unit with the pressure level present at the surrounding desired depth.

There are a number of approaches to making this concept work, all of which I'm pretty sure have been thoroughly experimented with by those with the means and inclination to do so. This could be as simple as a heated envelope within or around a lightweight airframe, with a powered fan for forward flight. I can't help but wonder how a tiny turbine integrated into a design like this with ducted exhaust to augment lift and provide vectored thrust for forward flight and flight controls might help such a design function a little more nimbly than your average blimp though.

Other approaches to lighter than air flight include filling your envelope with a gas like helium instead of just regular heated air, or having evacuated chambers wherein you maintain a vacuum or near vacuum by simply pumping the air OUT of a sealed chamber, leaving it as empty as you can possibly make it with pumping and sealing. I seem to remember from old discussions that this vacuum approach is generally held to be one of the more difficult ones, from an engineering point of view.

There are quite likely other more exotic technical approaches to rarefying the atmosphere within your airframe that I'm missing(microwaves? dunno), but even without those this is definitely one of the technologies that is being exploited to fly some of these exotic craft. I don't think the black triangles are just one type of airframe. There are probably like fifty or more different types of exotic triangular shaped aircraft out there flying, at least a dozen different types, in my speculative opinion.

There's a nice little bit of brain candy for you then ATS. Hehe. Weather balloons. No really though! I'm serious!

I wanted to quote my last post to start this next one, because I thought with round two here I could keep going for a little bit with the neutral buoyancy concept.

If you can build everything strong enough and you have the right equipment, there's no reason you couldn't make a craft like this capable of underwater operation. I mean sure, if it has to breathe air to run, you're not going to pull it off, but if your buoyant gasses are all bottled gasses that you can pump into a chamber and then re-compress and store when they're not in expansion, and you have a power source and propulsion that will accommodate the conditions, this could be done. Rather exotic, for sure, but it could afford one some serious capability.

I'd imagine microwaves could excite the air in a chamber enough to rarefy it, this is another means of producing a buoyant envelope. Sound waves can do this as well I think, so that is also something to consider.

I remember an old experiment that I first saw referred to in David Hatcher Childress's Anti-Gravity Handbook. It was "Crystalline Lattices Bombarded With Frequency Harmonics". I believe this experiment is generally held to have been a hoax, and I'm sure that since everyone who has ever read about it immediately ran out to their garages and conducted extensive experimentation on the nearly endless combinations of frequency harmonics and crystalline lattices with no workable results, we can safely dismiss it.

Anyhow, the article claimed that the crystals experimented with (quartz I think) expanded in volume. A large enough expansion in volume of the right material could turn it into an effective buoyant envelope. If the volume of a crystal could be expanded enough, at some point it would become lighter than air. Put one on each tip of your triangle, and a big one underneath the center, and there you go.

That's all the rest of my neutral buoyancy craft speculation that I can think of now. I might have more to add later, but I think I covered it all.

originally posted by: stormcell

I remember reading the article on element 115. The idea was that some atomic nucleii aren't actually spherical but actually barbell shaped or even had two nucleii existing in the same space. However, actual research so far has only found spherical, rugby ball and pear shaped nucleii.

Irritated skin, rashes, tingling skin, metallic smells and tastes can come from ionising radiation like radar systems. They could also come from chemical exposure. There was some evidence that there were sulphur based compounds.

I remember being excited when Bob was interviewed by George Knapp and all the talk about area 51/S4 came out, and his talk about a big "lump" of element 115 that powered the craft he "worked" on. It's called Moscovium now, I was waiting for the day when it was called Lazarium or something but then all the fakery was discovered!!

a reply to: TheBadCabbie


from what I can gather from eye witness account, and the information i tried to gather after the event horizon of my life that changed my understanding and philosophy for the rest of my life, it's some kind of magnetic propulsion. Also interdimensional so where I think it gets really heavy is trying to understand the technology that is being used from another dimension, in my mind is a waste of time trying to understand, their understanding of lets call it their elements in existence, is different than ours you see(their biological make up movement functions and laws of existence) What I am getting at is the resources we have may limit us to even understanding it properly or at all. You see when you start taking this seriously UFO's etc. when you meet someone who truly has seen aliens or whatever you want to call them, they are scared and have some kind of trauma(Because what we know as normal they are not), maybe even a lil crazy etc. Indeed a true dichotomy with the crazy side but its a side effect..


Its very traumatizing anyhow.. I hope I helped with your constructive thread. I don't think we are capable of understanding their tech, I have tried to talk about this before on ats and for the majority of people on the internet had a hard time differentiating star trak type of aliens and the reality..

a reply to: BASSPLYR

bigfoots seen in ufos, polteirgeist phenomena reported after ufo sightings, insane clown-ish behaviour of the
humanoids,synchronicity
i could go on all day, but its a fact: ufos arent technology, they are magic

a reply to: SeekAnswers

you are bob lazar-ing with that optimistic view of new materials, mostly likely they are just boring materials

IF...We can send Probes to ....Orbit.... Land... Take Photo's... too explore Mars, Pluto and Beyond IS it

So far fetched of an IDEA that IF there's Anything OR Anyone out Amongst THE Stars, that They

Might SEND a Nuts and Bolt craft to Take soil, air, water...PHOTO'S..etc SAMPLES..OF EARTH...?

...IF.......?

a reply to: humanoidlord


But magic is indistinguishable from a sufficiently advanced technology

Not saying you are wrong! This is a highly speculative field of inquiry. Just playing devil's advocate here

originally posted by: Kandinsky

Imagine a civilisation that left behind flesh and blood a few thousands of years ago? The span of its knowledge would be like a beach compared to our small grain of sand. It would manipulate/control energy in ways we probably haven't conceived of yet and make us obsolete in terms of a relationship with the speculative intelligence.

There is that, but what we have is still a lot of "ifs" in all this... In Star Trek they needed a way to get to the surface quickly and so we got the transporter, and it all seems reasonable to our minds...well until we realize just how much energy it takes to convert an atom to pure energy then back..

We see this with aliens where we invent what we need to make it so, but at the end of the day there still isn't any physically around us.

a reply to: JBurns

as far as i know technology that bends the space to its will is magic

originally posted by: Bicent
a reply to: TheBadCabbie


from what I can gather from eye witness account, and the information i tried to gather after the event horizon of my life that changed my understanding and philosophy for the rest of my life, it's some kind of magnetic propulsion. Also interdimensional so where I think it gets really heavy is trying to understand the technology that is being used from another dimension, in my mind is a waste of time trying to understand, their understanding of lets call it their elements in existence, is different than ours you see(their biological make up movement functions and laws of existence) What I am getting at is the resources we have may limit us to even understanding it properly or at all. You see when you start taking this seriously UFO's etc. when you meet someone who truly has seen aliens or whatever you want to call them, they are scared and have some kind of trauma(Because what we know as normal they are not), maybe even a lil crazy etc. Indeed a true dichotomy with the crazy side but its a side effect..


Its very traumatizing anyhow.. I hope I helped with your constructive thread. I don't think we are capable of understanding their tech, I have tried to talk about this before on ats and for the majority of people on the internet had a hard time differentiating star trak type of aliens and the reality..

Its easy as pie in your eye....imagine a bubble of water rising up from the bottom of a glass of water....now ask yourself what is BETWEEN the water and the air.....it is called a NEUTRAL DIMENSION ZONE.......now watch the video posted earlier about the Mantis Shrimp I prefer that one ,but here is another which is similar in concept called the Pistol Shrimp........science.sciencemag.org... you are donw this searc for super-cavitating torpedo online and learn how the military ses this same concept on their weaponry....by the time you are done the videos and wee search you might have a better grasp on what a NEUTRAL DIMENSION IS and why the Craft seem to disappear then reappear instantly...flickering in and out so to speak.

a reply to: one4all

A little hard to read what you wrote, but I already have reached my conclusions on what I have witnessed, what we think is relative to our reality what I saw was not. It was not made up by anything in my opinion from the periodic table but thanks for the link I might check it out later. I hear ya and thank you.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Erno86

your talk of plasma surrounding a ship could seque into another interesting thing to consider.

if your vehicle was surrounded by a shell of plasma. and your vehicle came equipped with a phased radio antenna array. it could induce that plasma to spin and with that net motion of the charged particles in the plasma create a powerful electric current and via that a very powerful macro sized magnetic field. This Plasma Magnet would be a useful way to make very large radius magnetic fields.

the real question is why you'd want to do that.

but think of UFO sightings. odd radio signal bursts. electrical interferance. glowing seemingly plasma like spheres.

makes one think.

"the real question is why you'd want to do that?"


Why...a number of possible reasons that the otherworlders would want to enshroud they're starship inside two offboard, magnetically contained, electrified fusion plasma shields.

The first one...obviously being: Fuel for the micro mini black hole propulsion unit.

To protect the starship from offensive weapon attacks...like nuclear-tipped missiles, laser fire, magnetically propelled gun fire and what have you...

Landings...so as to burn away any objects (brush, trees, etc) for a safe landing.

A weapon of mass destruction.

______________________________________________

The micro mini black hole propulsion unit's two large offboard magnetic shields (surrounding the starship), "induce charged particles in the plasma current."

Secondly..."the plasma current creates a poloidal magnetic field," which combines with the two BH's offboard magnetic shields.

www.euro-fusion.org...