It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Breaking - Four Officers Remained Outside Douglas Massacre!

page: 10
72
<< 7  8  9    11  12  13 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 04:19 PM
link   
a reply to: Sillyolme

Most pistols are semi-automatic now. Not many people still carry revolvers. And a handgun typically shoots larger bullets.

Not to mention a handgun can be aimed faster... MUCH faster!

If someone is 200 yards away and I have a handgun against their rifle, they have the advantage. Get within 50 yards of my pistol with a rifle, and I'll be prying it out of cold, dead hands. And I am one of those romantic fools who still uses a revolver.

TheRedneck




posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 04:28 PM
link   
a reply to: Sillyolme


Are you kidding? It's practically all they are talking about as far as solutions.
The solution to guns in schools is more guns in schools.

Because it is a help. Not a fix. If you had taken the time to actually read my post, you would have understood that context.

The only actual fix is to fix mental health issues. Do that, and there will no longer be a need for guns in schools. But in the meantime, we tried it your way. We tried gun-free zones. We tried letting only the police legally have guns. It failed. There are 17 people, mostly kids, dead today because your idea failed. 17 lives were snuffed out in a few minutes because your idea failed. 17 graves are full, 17 families grieving, 17 groups of friends hurting beyond what you can apparently imagine because your idea failed.

I think it's time we tried something else. Try your gun-free zone nonsense where your kids are sitting ducks. Let mine have some protection while we try to fix what you couldn't.

TheRedneck



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 04:34 PM
link   

originally posted by: face23785

I'm well aware of the accuracy rate, in fact I linked to that same incident where cops hit bystanders. But even with their poor accuracy rate, it's statistically rare for them to hit a bystander compared to the number of shots they fire. The reason for this is simple to anyone who's been trained. One of the things they hammer into your head is to know your background. If there's anything next to or behind the shooter you wouldn't want to hit, you don't take the shot. You only take the shot if the background is clear, so if you miss all you hit is a wall or something. You're also ignoring the fact that these shooters aren't standing in the middle of a crowd of students. The majority of the victims in these incidents get shot wherever they happen to be taking cover, because no one saved them. They're on the floor or under desks and chairs, and the shooter is standing and walking around looking for the next person to shoot. If there's 30 people in the room, and one of them is armed, the shooter can only shoot one person at a time. If he turns his back to you, you have a chance to draw your weapon and stop him. But you'd rather there be zero chance of stopping him for some reason.

And speaking of training, I hate to break it to you but police don't get some double-secret-probation uber-training that's only available to the elite of the elite. Any civilian can take a tactical training course, and that's precisely the kind of course the schools that do have these programs send their staff through. As projectvxn already pointed out, civilians using guns in defense of their lives and others isn't just "macho bull", it's real and happens every day. I know it makes you feel better to pretend gun owners are all pussies with small dicks who own guns to make themselves feel big, but that only shows your own insecurity. And pretending that I'm losing this argument because I pointed out the flaws in your false narrative is what's really funny. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about on this subject, and sadly have no desire to learn from people more informed than yourself. You're actually part of the problem, why we can't have informed debate and reach a meaningful solution that will actually save lives. But keep blaming the NRA bud. I only hope someday you and those like you will open your minds and actually develop a desire to solve this instead of just blame boogeymen.


Yet the link states that only about 30% of shots where on target and bystanders WERE hit, so after police training, and continual firearms training they still fired and hit bystanders. By the time a teacher with very basic training has unholstered the firearm (if they are armed in the classroom) and shot they could have hit a child by accident, you seem to forget or be ignoring the fact that children will be running in all directions, how is a teacher with basic training expected to shoot a target amongst all that confusion? Also if the intruder is firing a semi-automatic rifle, that's about 2 shots a second by an average shooter, With a 30-round magazine, that's 15 seconds of bullets flying while someone is trying to draw a firearm, pick the perfect time to fire, miss students and kill the "bad guy" in a real life situation under fire, rather than at a shooting range, bullets will be flying in all directions with students in the middle. Turning schools into the OK Corral isn't the answer. My concern was why 4 officers stood outside while all this happened.

Your second paragraph talks more about you than me......


I know it makes you feel better to pretend gun owners are all pussies with small dicks who own guns to make themselves feel big, but that only shows your own insecurity

See, you are just showing your own insecurities here, with these types of defensive comments about dicks and pussies. It makes me wonder if maybe you need some counselling or something?? I'm pretending nothing and you trying to turn it into argument about narrative just shows how rocky your stand is and I've not once mentioned the NRA, that was you "Bud"!!
A meaningful debate seems out of the reach of some democrats who think guns will solve all the worlds problems.





edit on 24-2-2018 by Kurokage because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 05:09 PM
link   
a reply to: seagull

I'm not saying those door-stopper things aren't a good idea. They are. I might get one for my back door. I didn't know they existed.
But those alone are not THE answer.
Windows, doors, kids outside. Oh, but chances are small they will his somebody coming through a door or a window?
You want to take that chance with your kid? You want someone shooting through the door of your child's classroom?
Surely you and BFFT don't see that is the big SOLUTION.



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 05:20 PM
link   
a reply to: angeldoll

I am going to see a list of classroom doors that have been shot through and the total number of classroom doors that exist in the US before I take your argument seriously.

Then we can move on to masonry walls.



 You want someone shooting through the door of your child's classroom? 

Of course not.
I don't want other terrible things to happen to them either.
But that doesn't mean that I worry irrationally about something that statistics show probably will not happen.
edit on b000000282018-02-24T17:24:01-06:0005America/ChicagoSat, 24 Feb 2018 17:24:01 -0600500000018 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 05:39 PM
link   
a reply to: angeldoll

Its a solution. Not the solution.

Banning the government from propaganda by re enacting smith mundt is another solution.

Not allowing police corruption to ignore the cruz's of the world is another.

There are several solutions that do not involve taking rights. Until they are at least tried, i say there are better solutions.



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 05:49 PM
link   
a reply to: Kurokage

Complete misrepresentation of what I said, but thankfully what I said is quoted so people can see that for themselves. Please open your mind. Your willful dedication to remain ignorant on this subject is not helping us move forward.



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 05:51 PM
link   
just trying to catch up here so please someone help me.

am i understanding this right that an Obama era policy intended to prevent the "school to prison pipeline" incentivized school districts to remove meaningful interaction between troubled students and law enforcement to make their numbers look better? (less arrests etc)

and furthermore, that this policy was implemented with the agreement between the schools and local law enforcement, to whit law enforcement consistently ignored warnings signs and reports from concerned citizens regarding the imminent threat of people like Cruz?

Is this provable? Because if it is it would seem to implicate GOVERNMENT and LAW ENFORCEMENT in the resulting deaths of 17 people at Parkland.

Please correct me if i have misunderstood.

Thanks.


CX

posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 06:02 PM
link   
What is the official procedure for a first on the scene officer when dealing with an active shooter situation like this?

Just want to clear up if they are in fact under orders to wait for SWAT and the likes to arrive....or is it ok to just run in on your own?

So many people saying they'd do this and that, and judging the officer/s that were there....I just wondered if there is a certain policy on this kind of thing?

CX.



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 06:06 PM
link   
a reply to: tribal

That pretty much sums it up. "Criminal justice reform" and all that. Go easy on criminals. They overwhelmingly vote Democrat for a reason.
edit on 24 2 18 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 06:08 PM
link   
a reply to: angeldoll

Are you looking for a magic wand to wave? A single action that will make everything right with the world? One law that will change everything that is wrong today and make it right tomorrow?

There's not one.

We tried the one law. It was gun-free zones. It failed, miserably. It didn't work. Children are now dead because of it, and they're dying faster and faster.

The only thing that will work is common sense. We need people inside the schools with the ability to protect their students and the means to stop an attack. We need the FBI to start listening when we say something because we saw something. We need better access to mental health. We need to give kids hope for a brighter future. We need to hire police who are capable of doing the job they are paid to do (and it's not eating doughnuts and it's not going home safe... I don't care what a fool in a robe says). We need to root out corruption and put good, honest people in power... and make sure they stay that way. We need to stop pampering kids and let them figure out life without the coddling, like every generation before them was perfectly capable of doing.

We need all that. Not one of those ideas, not two of those ideas, not three, not four... ALL of them. One size does not fit all. One law does not solve violence in society. One idea does not change what is.

Argue against any one, and you argue against the whole... and the solution that worked for centuries.

TheRedneck



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 06:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: CX
What is the official procedure for a first on the scene officer when dealing with an active shooter situation like this?

Just want to clear up if they are in fact under orders to wait for SWAT and the likes to arrive....or is it ok to just run in on your own?

So many people saying they'd do this and that, and judging the officer/s that were there....I just wondered if there is a certain policy on this kind of thing?

CX.


The official procedure depends on the department. However, it's been understood since the 90s that these are not like a standard hostage situation where you would just set up a perimeter and containment and then try to negotiate. It's pretty much standard practice these days that in an active shooter situation, the sooner someone gets inside the better. Every second that goes by someone else can die, because the goal is often to just kill as many people as they can given the time allotted. Giving them more time is a criminal dereliction of duty if you ask me.

ETA: Orlando was an oddball because that shooter actually did take hostages at one point.
edit on 24 2 18 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 06:16 PM
link   
a reply to: CX

What's the official modus operandi for a criminal to use so the official policy of the police will be effective?

TheRedneck



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 06:27 PM
link   
a reply to: CX


What is the official procedure for a first on the scene officer when dealing with an active shooter situation like this?


The specifics of the policy will vary slightly from one agency to another, and you'll be hard pressed to find anything really specific put out for public consumption.

The basic answer to your question, however, is to make entry and interdict the shooter as quickly as possible. Some agencies allow for single-officer entry, other agencies expect a minimum of two-officer entry. SROs, or School Resource Officers, are sometimes given more discretion, if an agency requires a two-officer entry, as to whether they make solo entry or not.

We know, or at least the sheriff of BCSO has stated, that the SRO should have entered as soon as he arrived at building 13.



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 07:21 PM
link   
Which of the 3 is it?
REF: twitter.com...

Will the public see text messages, and radio communications transcripts from 24 hours prior to 24 hours after, the high school massacre?



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 08:45 PM
link   
a reply to: angeldoll

Of course that's not the best solution. At best it's a last resort.

The solution is to stop the attack w/o any loss of life, or even injury.

The ideal solution is to catch the problem before it starts. This latest calamity shows where one issues lies, or maybe more than one. Actually, it is more than one.

The proper authorities had more than sufficient notice to have stopped this before hand. FBI screwed up just about as badly as you can screw up. So, too, did the locals--even more spectacularly than the FBI did.

Why wasn't this man given the help he, quite obviously, so desperately needed. Seemingly, every one who had even the slightest knowledge of him were scared he'd do something like this.

No. Increased security in schools, and hospitals, etc... is only the last resort, when all else has failed--which they will, as no system is perfect--they'll give people a chance.



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 09:04 PM
link   
64 Flags and 10 pages later people are still dead because they decided to stay in place. If it was one guy, even though I do not agree, I can see it. Maybe he was the guy from the First Die Hard ready to retire. I get it. However, how could you live with yourself.

But 4 officers. Between 4 sheriffs they could not say you go right you go left i'm up the middle and you back me up and engage? Their job is to protect and serve. They are the front line. It is not about dying a hero it is about trying something.

This shows that the money the governor wants to throw at 'existing' officers is a waste. We need retired LEO's and Military who WOULD give it to save some kids. They were in worse in country so why not give them a job here?



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 09:13 PM
link   
a reply to: TheRedneck

Something needs to change, that's for sure. I tend to blame our culture at large and by no means think guns should be more restricted. Control does not mean restriction, it simply means, at worst, a "cool down period" equivalent law; which again I don't feel one is needed.

The guy could legally own guns for over a year. He made very attention-worthy comments on multiple occasions. As to how he "slipped through the cracks" I do not know. But gun control measures will not solve the basic problem of people like the shooter essentially being created by an apathetic society. No one gave a @#$% about this guy no matter how far he pushed the envelope.

And now we look back on it and wonder "What could have been done?" like fools who let the house burn down around us due to our own neglect. Basic maintenance goes a long way.



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 09:17 PM
link   
a reply to: Tempter

The world already knows that most american cops are pussys, liars and cheats.....

What ever happened to the aussie bird shot to death by two cops in an alley 3-4 months ago ?

Shoot first, ask questions later.

Roid junkies.

America will never see peace with cowboy militarised police.



posted on Feb, 24 2018 @ 11:13 PM
link   

originally posted by: scubagravy
a reply to: Tempter

The world already knows that most american cops are pussys, liars and cheats.....



I'd offer up a different opinion, that is that this particular
Broward County was affected by a policy put in place
after Trayvon Martin that essentially prohibited the
school and the police department from charging children
in high school with crimes, and prevented them from acting
upon the warning signs of this student.



According to a source who spoke to the Miami Herald, Cruz had been suspended from Stoneman Douglas High for fighting and also for being caught with bullets in his backpack. This was apparently at least one of the reasons why administrators reportedly emailed a warning to teachers against allowing Cruz on the campus with a backpack. He was later expelled for reasons that have not been disclosed, but he was apparently not arrested.

This is not the first time that this "solution" to school crime has produced lethal results. An earlier case in the nearby Miami-Dade County public school system should have been a warning, but unfortunately, the media conspired to suppress the details of the case. The victim in Miami-Dade was one Trayvon Martin.


www.americanthinker.com...




Take Broward County, the Florida county that used to rank No. 1 at sending students to their state’s juvenile justice system. The stats troubled Broward County leaders, and they responded with a bold solution: Lower arrests by not making arrests.

After examining juvenile data, a local task force compiled 12 misdemeanor offenses that would no longer be considered police matters. Criminal mischief and vandalism, for example.


www.publicsource.org...



This is a Broward County issue, not all LE officers so
please at least attempt to be accurate
with your broad brush painting.
edit on 24-2-2018 by burntheships because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
72
<< 7  8  9    11  12  13 >>

log in

join